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God is the one true god...


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#61    hyperactive

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Posted 16 June 2005 - 04:30 PM

QUOTE
The bible is full of many very important CONCEPTS.


concepts that are not new or unique to it.

all the concepts come from those actions and thoughts that better enable us, as a social species, to survive.  the bible does a wonderful job of mystifying the mondane.


"He who knows not and knows not he knows not, he is a fool - shun him.
He who knows not and knows he knows not, he is simple - teach him.
He who knows and knows not he knows, he is asleep - awaken him.
He who knows and knows that he knows, he is wise - follow him. "
Arabia


#62    GodsMessenger

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Posted 16 June 2005 - 04:36 PM

QUOTE(JMPD1 @ Jun 16 2005, 06:06 AM)
So then, we should keep the ten commandments, and chuck the rest.  The commandments are the ONLY useful thing that I have ever pulled out of that book.  Parts of the NT illustrate and explain the 10 C's, but the rest is either exaggerated, distorted history, or fables meant to instill fear and loathing.

As always, your mileage may vary.

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Jesus actually narrowed it down to TWO commandments

1 Love The Spirit of Truth and Righteousness above everything even yourself.
2 Love Others

The problem is that people are so insincere and have this mechanism we call "denial" so they cannot or will not interpret and therefore apply those commandments in a truthful and righteous way.

You know what people are like. We try and use "reason and logic" to prove that what we WANT, although we KNOW it is WRONG ..... is actually RIGHT! TaDa!!!

That is why Jesus said "You must be born again", You must become a person willing to admit to and act upon the TRUE interpretation of those commandments, not find loopholes in them.

The bible says mans wisdom is foolishness to God and Gods wisdom is foolishness to mand because of the above.

The disciples asked Jesus why He spoke in parables and Jesus said because those who WANT to understand will know the true interpretation of those parables. Those who WANT to do the wrong thing will interpret them in a way that will justify the evil they really want to do.





#63    GodsMessenger

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Posted 16 June 2005 - 04:38 PM

QUOTE(hyperactive @ Jun 16 2005, 11:30 AM)
QUOTE
The bible is full of many very important CONCEPTS.


concepts that are not new or unique to it.

all the concepts come from those actions and thoughts that better enable us, as a social species, to survive.  the bible does a wonderful job of mystifying the mondane.

View Post



So love and truth and honor and justice are all mundane to you?

If that is the world you wish to live in then it is yours.

Jesus takes us to a world where love and truth and justice REALLY mean something.



#64    GodsMessenger

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Posted 16 June 2005 - 04:45 PM

QUOTE(BFG @ Jun 15 2005, 08:45 AM)
QUOTE(GodsMessenger @ Jun 15 2005, 11:21 PM)
Then what is the point of forgiveness and salvation. .

May the love of God be revealed even more to you, in Jesus name I pray. Amen

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???????????????????????????????

I believe in a God of MERCY, FORGIVENESS, and LOVE.  But I also believe in a God of JUSTICE.  And a just God does not just let people off for doing the wrong thing.  The only thing that can come from that is anarchy.  

Jesus took our sin on the cross and when our faith is put in Him, our sin is put on Him.  Hence the FORGIVENESS.  

God shows us a way back to Him in the first place, hence the MERCY.

And God sent His son to die for us, hence the LOVE.

But there must be JUSTICE, otherwise all that God has done for us is meaningless.

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Jesus said God does not judge you, He has given that authority to me..... but I do not judge you either. The son of God came into the world NOT to CONDEMN the world but that the world through Him might be saved.

But there IS a judge. The veru word I spoke will be your judge. In other words the Truth will be our judge.

We reap what we sow. But God is ALWAYS there to forgive us and heal and clean us, NOT to judge us. God loves us. He is constantly begging us to stop running away from him to our own destruction. God is not sending anyone to hell for punishment. God is pleading with EVERYONE to stop going down the road to their own destruction. We are punihsing and destroying ourself. The consequences of our actions will punish us, not God.




#65    hyperactive

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Posted 16 June 2005 - 05:26 PM

QUOTE(GodsMessenger @ Jun 16 2005, 08:38 AM)
QUOTE(hyperactive @ Jun 16 2005, 11:30 AM)
QUOTE
The bible is full of many very important CONCEPTS.


concepts that are not new or unique to it.

all the concepts come from those actions and thoughts that better enable us, as a social species, to survive.  the bible does a wonderful job of mystifying the mondane.

View Post



So love and truth and honor and justice are all mundane to you?

If that is the world you wish to live in then it is yours.

Jesus takes us to a world where love and truth and justice REALLY mean something.

View Post



love and truth are dynaic constructs.  all you are doing is elevating them above something else.  this is no different than the materialist that elevates posessions above something else.  you are all the same.  if you can not see that, then so be it.


"He who knows not and knows not he knows not, he is a fool - shun him.
He who knows not and knows he knows not, he is simple - teach him.
He who knows and knows not he knows, he is asleep - awaken him.
He who knows and knows that he knows, he is wise - follow him. "
Arabia


#66    zandore

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Posted 16 June 2005 - 06:14 PM

QUOTE(GodsMessenger Posted Today @  12:36 PM )
Jesus actually narrowed it down to TWO commandments

1 Love The Spirit of Truth and Righteousness above everything even yourself.
2 Love Others


Matthew speaking of all the OT Commandments:

QUOTE(Matthew 5:18 )
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.


QUOTE(Matthew 5:19 )
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.


"A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy,
education, and social ties; no religious basis is necessary.
Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear
of punishment and hope of reward after death."

Albert Einstein


Survey Says....


#67    Paranoid Android

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Posted 17 June 2005 - 02:59 AM

When asked what the greatest commandment was, Jesus replied:

" 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."  (Matthew 22:37-40)

If we keep these in mind - love God totally, and love others as ourselves, then we are on the right track.








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#68    GodsMessenger

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Posted 17 June 2005 - 04:39 PM

QUOTE(hyperactive @ Jun 16 2005, 12:26 PM)
QUOTE(GodsMessenger @ Jun 16 2005, 08:38 AM)
QUOTE(hyperactive @ Jun 16 2005, 11:30 AM)
QUOTE
The bible is full of many very important CONCEPTS.


concepts that are not new or unique to it.

all the concepts come from those actions and thoughts that better enable us, as a social species, to survive.  the bible does a wonderful job of mystifying the mondane.

View Post



So love and truth and honor and justice are all mundane to you?

If that is the world you wish to live in then it is yours.

Jesus takes us to a world where love and truth and justice REALLY mean something.

View Post



love and truth are dynaic constructs.  all you are doing is elevating them above something else.  this is no different than the materialist that elevates posessions above something else.  you are all the same.  if you can not see that, then so be it.

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What I don't see is why you object to elevating Truth and Righteousness and Goodness and Love above other things.

And of course it is different than elevating possesions, silly, it is the complete opposite.

Shalom


#69    hyperactive

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Posted 17 June 2005 - 04:57 PM

QUOTE
elevating Truth and Righteousness and Goodness and Love


= basing the value of your life around these fleeting concepts

QUOTE
elevating possesions


= basing the value of your life around these fleeting concepts


i object to placing more "value" in something than there is inherent to it.  i agree with you that it is more sensible to "cry over something that can cry back".  i am anything but a materialist.  however, i will also not elevate another human construct in its place.


"He who knows not and knows not he knows not, he is a fool - shun him.
He who knows not and knows he knows not, he is simple - teach him.
He who knows and knows not he knows, he is asleep - awaken him.
He who knows and knows that he knows, he is wise - follow him. "
Arabia


#70    GodsMessenger

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Posted 18 June 2005 - 01:27 AM

QUOTE(hyperactive @ Jun 17 2005, 11:57 AM)
QUOTE
elevating Truth and Righteousness and Goodness and Love


= basing the value of your life around these fleeting concepts

QUOTE
elevating possesions


= basing the value of your life around these fleeting concepts


i object to placing more "value" in something than there is inherent to it.  i agree with you that it is more sensible to "cry over something that can cry back".  i am anything but a materialist.  however, i will also not elevate another human construct in its place.

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These are not fleeting concepts IMHO. Our perceptions of them may be. But think about it.

The story of the boy who cried wolf may or may not have really happened but it holds a very important TRUTH. If you lie , you will lose your credibility and then when you need some one to believe you, will regret lieing.
Ones credibility... the TRUTH is very important.


And if you have ever felt unloved, you should know that love is very valuable. That is why it is on the heirarchy of human needs ... Food, shelter, security, the need to love and be loved, the need for a purpose...

These are not fleeting concepts,. they last a lifetime.



#71    hyperactive

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Posted 18 June 2005 - 02:03 AM

we arn't supposed to debate here so all i will say is look closely at the heirarchy of needs.  you will see it is not a heirarchy at all.


"He who knows not and knows not he knows not, he is a fool - shun him.
He who knows not and knows he knows not, he is simple - teach him.
He who knows and knows not he knows, he is asleep - awaken him.
He who knows and knows that he knows, he is wise - follow him. "
Arabia


#72    GodsMessenger

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Posted 18 June 2005 - 12:59 PM

QUOTE(hyperactive @ Jun 17 2005, 09:03 PM)
we arn't supposed to debate here so all i will say is look closely at the heirarchy of needs.  you will see it is not a heirarchy at all.

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I do not like debates. I like discussions. I like sharing my beliefs and feelings.
You are free to disagree with me, without it becoming a debate. Your opinions are just as valid as my opinions.

SO tell me why you feel they are not a heirarchy?

This is one of the defintions of hierarchy

A series in which each element is graded or ranked: put honesty first in her hierarchy of values.

This is Maslow's hierarchy of human needs.

Maslow has set up a hierarchy of five levels of basic needs. Beyond these needs, higher levels of needs exist. These include needs for understanding, esthetic appreciation and purely spiritual needs. In the levels of the five basic needs, the person does not feel the second need until the demands of the first have been satisfied, nor the third until the second has been satisfied, and so on. Maslow's basic needs are as follows:

Physiological Needs
These are biological needs. They consist of needs for oxygen, food, water, and a relatively constant body temperature. They are the strongest needs because if a person were deprived of all needs, the physiological ones would come first in the person's search for satisfaction.

Safety Needs
When all physiological needs are satisfied and are no longer controlling thoughts and behaviors, the needs for security can become active. Adults have little awareness of their security needs except in times of emergency or periods of disorganization in the social structure (such as widespread rioting). Children often display the signs of insecurity and the need to be safe.

Needs of Love, Affection and Belongingness
When the needs for safety and for physiological well-being are satisfied, the next class of needs for love, affection and belongingness can emerge. Maslow states that people seek to overcome feelings of loneliness and alienation. This involves both giving and receiving love, affection and the sense of belonging.

Needs for Esteem
When the first three classes of needs are satisfied, the needs for esteem can become dominant. These involve needs for both self-esteem and for the esteem a person gets from others. Humans have a need for a stable, firmly based, high level of self-respect, and respect from others. When these needs are satisfied, the person feels self-confident and valuable as a person in the world. When these needs are frustrated, the person feels inferior, weak, helpless and worthless.

Needs for Self-Actualization
When all of the foregoing needs are satisfied, then and only then are the needs for self-actualization activated. Maslow describes self-actualization as a person's need to be and do that which the person was "born to do." "A musician must make music, an artist must paint, and a poet must write." These needs make themselves felt in signs of restlessness. The person feels on edge, tense, lacking something, in short, restless. If a person is hungry, unsafe, not loved or accepted, or lacking self-esteem, it is very easy to know what the person is restless about. It is not always clear what a person wants when there is a need for self-actualization.
The hierarchic theory is often represented as a pyramid, with the larger, lower levels representing the lower needs, and the upper point representing the need for self-actualization.

So tell me what YOU think in relation to these human needs.



#73    Paranoid Android

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Posted 18 June 2005 - 01:29 PM

QUOTE(GodsMessenger @ Jun 18 2005, 11:27 AM)
The story of the boy who cried wolf may or may not have really happened but it holds a very important TRUTH. If you lie , you will lose your credibility and then when you need some one to believe you, will regret lieing.
Ones credibility... the TRUTH is very important.

View Post



One thing people on this forum will agree on is that we never agree on anything.  That things can have multiple meanings.

A character from the show DS9 named Garak derives a different moral out of this story  

Never tell the same lie twice!  thumbsup.gif

Edited by BFG, 18 June 2005 - 01:32 PM.

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#74    GodsMessenger

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Posted 18 June 2005 - 02:32 PM

QUOTE(BFG @ Jun 18 2005, 08:29 AM)
QUOTE(GodsMessenger @ Jun 18 2005, 11:27 AM)
The story of the boy who cried wolf may or may not have really happened but it holds a very important TRUTH. If you lie , you will lose your credibility and then when you need some one to believe you, will regret lieing.
Ones credibility... the TRUTH is very important.

View Post



One thing people on this forum will agree on is that we never agree on anything.  That things can have multiple meanings.

A character from the show DS9 named Garak derives a different moral out of this story  

Never tell the same lie twice!  thumbsup.gif

View Post



We all derive our own morals according to our own moral fibre. Also many morals can come from the same story. It never fails to amaze me when I read a scripture passage for maybe the 20th time and I get yet ANOTHER quite different revelation from it. There are as many different revelations of Truth as there are circumstances to which to apply those Truths.

But even with Garaks restriction on lieing, it limits your lies so that after you have told that lie once you can never tell it again, at least giving you some semblamce of credibility.


#75    hyperactive

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Posted 18 June 2005 - 05:26 PM

Maslow's hierarchy of needs is what i thought you were referencing in the first post.

simply put, satisfaction of various needs is not dependent on the completion of any prior needs.  all the needs are equal, even though some are neccessary to survival (it has been argued that self actualization is not necessary to all people).  there is no order to which the needs are fulfilled and are fulfilled independently.  yes, you can be self actualized while starving for example.

it is unfortunate that all too often "equals" get mis-grouped into hierarchies.


"He who knows not and knows not he knows not, he is a fool - shun him.
He who knows not and knows he knows not, he is simple - teach him.
He who knows and knows not he knows, he is asleep - awaken him.
He who knows and knows that he knows, he is wise - follow him. "
Arabia





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