204 replies to this topic

[SpiritWriter]

I often hear from Christians that if something is not Bible based it cannot be trusted and that if we feel we hear God speaking but it can't be backed up by the bible then it must not be God. I want to know why people believe this is true and at what point will we be able to recognize God more genuinely without the guilt of having to reference back to a source outside of ourselves. Looking for genuine Christian opinions on this.

Edited by SpiritWriter, 04 March 2013 - 03:30 PM.

[OverSword]

SpiritWriter, on 04 March 2013 - 03:26 PM, said:

I want to know why people believe this is true

Fear or faith or both.

Edited by OverSword, 04 March 2013 - 03:35 PM.

[CrimsonKing]

If i hear anyone speaking to me and no one else is around i may seek medical attention lol.Sorry spirit had to bring at least 1 laugh to what i know will wind up being a serious conversation.That said im out

[Frank Merton]

We all hear voices from time to time.  It's known as talking to oneself.  When it becomes problematic is when we no longer realize that it is oneself talking and think it's something else.  This does happen in various situations beyond schizophrenia.  Various drugs can do it, even caffeine and alcohol, as well as fasting.  It has happened to me meditating (time to take a break).

The funny thing about it is that when we talk to ourselves normally, we don't "hear" actual voice -- we know it isn't and so our brain doesn't assign voice to it.  But when that disconnect has taken place, the brain assumes sound must be coming in and attaches voice to it, so it seems to be coming from outside.

[SpiritWriter]

CrimsonKing, on 04 March 2013 - 03:31 PM, said:

If i hear anyone speaking to me and no one else is around i may seek medical attention lol.Sorry spirit had to bring at least 1 laugh to what i know will wind up being a serious conversation.That said im out

Crimson I know you say your out but I'm quoting you any way, using your statement as a springboard you don't have to answer unless you feel led to.. Hi! Btw


God can and does speak audibly in some cases but I think that kind of communication is rare and should be analyzed, (as should all our thoughts/emotions/actions especially if we have subscribed to taking the spiritual route). I think we do have to judge what we are hearing and learn to trust the voice based on something and in that regard I can understand using the bible simply because you know something must be used.. but after a while I think we can begin to use our own spirits and minds. For the most part God does not use an audible voice but rather intuition.. this is my experience at least. It's the voice inside of us that all of us hear if we choose to listen to it and as we do so it becomes more spiritual and clear... to me this leads to great revelation but the process can be hindered if there is the constraint of outside interferance, this is how I see it but this frightens many, which is the reason for the post. I want to know why people are convinced the bible is more of the word of god than we as individuals are capable of hearing. If the saints of old were capable of creating holy inspired text why can't we tap into that same power?

Edited by SpiritWriter, 04 March 2013 - 03:57 PM.

[krypter3]

My friend it all boils down to your very own point of view, how you yourself and well...you...see the world.  Whether you believe in   or you are an   person, hell even if you believe in .  It all comes down to what you think, Christians may believe that nothing can be trusted if it's not in the bible, well I can say right now there are others who believe the bible to be completely fictitious.  I'm not saying it is, I myself would probably be agnostic.  I believe that there may be a higher plane of existence.  The universe is such a complex place and sentient, intelligent life is so complicated that I believe (hope) it won't just go poof.  I mean I believe in paranormal stuff, I have had experiences with ghosts before and had deja-vu where I swear black and blue I have relived the moment.  But in saying I believe in ghosts, I also believe in aliens and I don't believe in 'god' as Christians describe him.  

In my experience I've met a few religious zealots, some saying how if I don't bow to god I will go to hell, or my niece, who at the time was like seven, was going to hell because she was proud in her paintings.  And I have met others who are wonderful and kind people.  

Ok I realise this is getting long, so to shorten it I shall simply finish with.

Believe in what you wanna believe love and let others believe in what they want to.  If everyone could accept that, I believe the world would be a happier place

[freetoroam]

SpiritWriter, on 04 March 2013 - 03:52 PM, said:

God can and does speak audibly in some cases but I think that kind of communication is rare and should be analyzed,

It has been analyzed many a time, thats why they invented the straight jacket.

Edited by freetoroam, 04 March 2013 - 04:53 PM.

[SpiritWriter]

krypter3, on 04 March 2013 - 03:57 PM, said:

Believe in what you wanna believe love and let others believe in what they want to.  If everyone could accept that, I believe the world would be a happier place

I do and I am quite happy. The problem is that I am a christian that finds it hard to communicate with other christians about certain matters because of this very matter. I understand the believe your own thing part, but I would like to know and challenge the root of this widely practised notion of putting final authority in the bible. I never understood it, but have sat in churches that preach it and am in other environments that I cannot express what god is doing in my life because I will be attacked by my own peers for my beliefs. I think communication helps us all grow. So its not about "letting" others believe what the believe, its about understanding why...

[Paranoid Android]

I am a Bible-believing Christian.  I have NEVER heard God (or Jesus) speaking to me directly.  I've heard stories (sorry, I don't have links, I didn't hear it on the net) about people who have supposedly heard God's word and then promptly sold everything they owned to go on a Missionary expedition, only to return two weeks later saying that they "misinterpreted" the signs.  That's not to say that people who claim they have heard God are automatically wrong, it's just saying that they aren't automatically right.

As a general rule, if someone claims to have a divine revelation from God then two options present themselves:  1- something totally disagrees with scripture, I don't accept it as the word of God, and 2- if it does not contradict scripture then I put it to a curiosity - maybe it's true, maybe it's not.

What I DON'T accept is that some modern person suddenly comes up with a new teaching not found in the original scripture, but they feel it is right and so they try and promote it as such despite the textual evidence to the contrary.

Sorry if that's pretty vague.  Without specific examples I can't really give a better response than the one I have just given

[SpiritWriter]

freetoroam, on 04 March 2013 - 03:57 PM, said:

It has been many analyzed many a time, thats why they invented the straight jacket.

You honestly think that if a person hears an audible voice they should be put in a straight jacket and not be able to move? First of all this is just about the rudest statement I've heard on UM so far. I hope one day you will come to a better understanding about what your saying. Second of all my question is directed at christians and why they feel the bible is final authority. So your statement is off topic and I hope it doesn't lead the conversation in this way.

[Frank Merton]

I dare say, non-Christian that I am, if I heard a clear voice telling me to convert, no doubt after a lot of analysis, I would start looking for a way to convert.  I have enough confidence in my sanity.  The thing is, it hasn't happened.

[krypter3]

SpiritWriter, on 04 March 2013 - 04:06 PM, said:

I do and I am quite happy. The problem is that I am a christian that finds it hard to communicate with other christians about certain matters because of this very matter. I understand the believe your own thing part, but I would like to know and challenge the root of this widely practised notion of putting final authority in the bible. I never understood it, but have sat in churches that preach it and am in other environments that I cannot express what god is doing in my life because I will be attacked by my own peers for my beliefs. I think communication helps us all grow. So its not about "letting" others believe what the believe, its about understanding why...

Well I wish there were others like you in the world, and yes communication is essential.  But alas it takes two to tango.  There will always be those you twist a religion, any religion to fit their own purposes.  You may need to find another way to challenge it.  Write a paper about it, or bring it to the attention of your church leaders.  I too would like to find out how exactly was the bible conceived.  And if god happens to be real, I have...faith if you will that he would not condemn people to eternal damnation for not bowing down to him or committing the seven sins.  Because I will be the first to admit I have felt envy, I have been a glutton before, I have been proud in my work and my family, I have been greedy, people have seen my wrath and I have felt lust.  

It's human nature, people say he created us in his image and thus would he not be subjected to the same feelings and emotions as us.  

There is a lot that can be questioned sure, but not always in a public forum.  People are afraid of change, of the unknown   Especially when it comes to religion.  Maybe look for the questions you seek yourself, a little history searching.  Talk to someone you know and trust won't attack your opinions.  I hope you find what you're looking for.

[Frank Merton]

Be gentle: "straight-jacket" is a metaphor; I don't think he meant it literally.

The reason Christians resort to the Bible to test the message of any voice  (or other prophet for that matter) is that this is what they've been taught.

In fact, that is not what Jesus said to do.  He said to test the tree by the fruit it bears.  If it bears good fruit, then it is of God, but if it bears rotten fruit, then it is not.  He does not mention any test by comparing with scripture.

[CrimsonKing]

SpiritWriter, on 04 March 2013 - 03:52 PM, said:

Crimson I know you say your out but I'm quoting you any way, using your statement as a springboard you don't have to answer unless you feel led to.. Hi! Btw


God can and does speak audibly in some cases but I think that kind of communication is rare and should be analyzed, (as should all our thoughts/emotions/actions especially if we have subscribed to taking the spiritual route). I think we do have to judge what we are hearing and learn to trust the voice based on something and in that regard I can understand using the bible simply because you know something must be used.. but after a while I think we can begin to use our own spirits and minds. For the most part God does not use an audible voice but rather intuition.. this is my experience at least. It's the voice inside of us that all of us hear if we choose to listen to it and as we do so it becomes more spiritual and clear... to me this leads to great revelation but the process can be hindered if there is the constraint of outside interferance, this is how I see it but this frightens many, which is the reason for the post. I want to know why people are convinced the bible is more of the word of god than we as individuals are capable of hearing. If the saints of old were capable of creating holy inspired text why can't we tap into that same power?

Hello spirit,since you quoted me i will respond back lol.I have had what some call a gut feeling many times in my life that has actually kept me out of trouble and even saved my life before.I have never really put any thought into it as some divine spirit is talking to me,i just think of it as some kind of instinct or precognition.Being a christian yourself others should not use a book that was written by a bunch of mortal men,then translated by other men to serve a need of controlling the masses.I myself am not the athiest type i have my beliefs but none have to do with a god stolen from others beliefs.Anyone who uses that book to somehow try to make their point better or more important have defeated their own purpose.Just my opinion.

[freetoroam]

SpiritWriter, on 04 March 2013 - 04:11 PM, said:

You honestly think that if a person hears an audible voice they should be put in a straight jacket and not be able to move? First of all this is just about the rudest statement I've heard on UM so far. I hope one day you will come to a better understanding about what your saying. Second of all my question is directed at christians and why they feel the bible is final authority. So your statement is off topic and I hope it doesn't lead the conversation in this way.

hmm, no likey for that comment from you then? (joke)
There have been many who have said they heard the voice of god, the majority good people, but some not so.
I do recall The yorkshire ripper saying he heard voices too and others like him....do you think they should not be in straight jackets!!

My point was, its not only good people who try to use the voices to their advantage!  there are many more but this kind of thing i was pointing out.


http://www.upi.com/T...71281234475937/

http://www.rickross....f_christ11.html

I will stay away from the negatives now, as its only the positives you want to hear, thats fine.

Edited by freetoroam, 04 March 2013 - 04:38 PM.