4026 replies to this topic

[Abramelin]

The Puzzler, on 10 October 2012 - 12:42 AM, said:

Isn't 'Wralda' in the sentence before - about his fruit and nuts?

That's why I have put the name between brackets a couple of times: Otharus is convinced it is part of the next sentence, but I am not so sure.

[Abramelin]

The Puzzler, on 10 October 2012 - 01:06 AM, said:

I like to take on the sentences literally, as they are written first, each word - then see what else can come from it, more like we'd speak now, referring to word order etc.

You should take syntax into consideration.

Or else I could translate the word 'take' into 'teak': it sounds similar to 'take' but it would have nothing to do in that sentence whatsoever.

[The Puzzler]

OK, since od is here, I'm going to use this form to translate the word od in that line. Anfang-beginning - first point, spark .

or-d

14, afries., st. N. (a): nhd. Spitze, Ort, Stelle, Anfang; ne. point (N.), place

(N.); ÜG.: lat. lancea WE; Vw.: s. -ling; Hw.: vgl. got. *uzds, an. oddr, ae. ord, as.

ord*, ahd. ort (1); Q.: H, E, W, R, WE; E.: s. germ. *uzda-, *uzdaz, st. M. (a),

Spitze; vgl. idg. *øes- (4), V., stechen?, Pokorny 1172; idg. *d
hÐ- (2), *dheh1-, V.,

setzen, stellen, legen, Pokorny 235; W.: nfries. oerde; W.: nnordfries. od; L.: Hh

--------------------------------------

be·gin·ning (b-gnng)
n.
1. The act or process of bringing or being brought into being; a start.
2. The time when something begins or is begun: the beginning of the war.
3. The place where something begins or is begun: at the beginning of the road.
4. A source; an origin: What was the beginning of the dispute?
5. The first part: The front matter is at the beginning of the book.
6. An early or rudimentary phase. Often used in the plural: the beginnings of human life on this planet.

Synonyms: beginning, birth, dawn, genesis, nascence, rise
These nouns denote the initial stage of a developmental process: http://www.thefreedi...y.com/beginning
---------------------------------

Since od is anfang - beginning or point, place, all associated words could be used instead of od: - none sound as good as OD though, so OD was the point, place but also the beginning point, the spark of life.
Anfang:
start
outset
inception
beginning
initial
onset
commencement
top
debut
opening
initiation
origin
starting
kickoff
startup
init
setout
incipience
beginnings

Abramelin, on 10 October 2012 - 01:22 AM, said:

You should take syntax into consideration.

Or else I could translate the word 'take' into 'teak': it sounds similar to 'take' but it would have nothing to do in that sentence whatsoever.

I check them all.

[The Puzzler]

treda in Frisian which seems to be trâd goes through a multitude of meanings - tradition, from trans/over... hand over, deliver - trader would have been the delivery man, handing over the goods.

Anyway, the Frisian dictionary has treda as treda and TREE - then type in trâd in Google and what comes up? TREE.

Now we are getting to the 'root' of trâd methinks.

Edited by The Puzzler, 10 October 2012 - 02:22 AM.

[Abramelin]

I think you lost me now: what has the word "anfang" to do with what we were talking about?

And 'anfang' or 'Dutch 'aanvang' indeed means 'start' or 'beginning', but still....

[Abramelin]

The Puzzler, on 10 October 2012 - 02:20 AM, said:

treda in Frisian which seems to be trâd goes through a multitude of meanings - tradition, from trans/over... hand over, deliver - trader would have been the delivery man, handing over the goods.

Anyway, the Frisian dictionary has treda as treda and TREE - then type in trâd in Google and what comes up? TREE.

Now we are getting to the 'root' of trâd methinks.

What's the problem?

We already know that it means 'to tred' in English or 'treden' in Dutch?

You are making this unnecessarily complicated.

[The Puzzler]

Abramelin, on 10 October 2012 - 02:46 AM, said:

What's the problem?

We already know that it means 'to tred' in English or 'treden' in Dutch?

You are making this unnecessarily complicated.

No, Im trying to find a good meaning for trâd - which rather than 'made a path' or tread inside them, could actually mean 'rooted' in side them, took root etc because Frisian quite distinctly has it as not only tread but TREE.

Abramelin, on 10 October 2012 - 02:43 AM, said:

I think you lost me now: what has the word "anfang" to do with what we were talking about?

And 'anfang' or 'Dutch 'aanvang' indeed means 'start' or 'beginning', but still....

Because where it said OD in the Frisian Dictionary at ord it also says anfang - which is beginning. So OD can mean this.

Edited by The Puzzler, 10 October 2012 - 03:45 AM.

[The Puzzler]

I like wasting time, working out what words really mean.

In W.: nnordfries again: (same as where od was)

tre-d-a

4, afries., st. V. (5): nhd. treten; ne. tread (V.); Vw.: s. *for-; Hw.: vgl. an.

troOEa, ae. tredan, anfrk. tredan, as. *tredan, ahd. tretan*; Q.: E, H, AA 21, AA

266
74; E.: germ. *tredan, st. V., treten; idg. *dreu-, V., laufen, treten, Pokorny 204; s.

idg. *der- (3), *drõ-, V., laufen, treten, Pokorny 204; W.: nfries. tredden, V.,

treten; W.: saterl. treda, V., treten; W.: nnordfries. trede, tree, V., treten; L.: Hh

115b, Rh 1093b, AA 21, AA 74


Swedish
From Old Norse tré through Old Swedish trǣ(e)t (“the tree”), later trǣdh and trädh
http://en.wiktionary...i/träd#Swedish

Verb
träda

• to tread, to walk, to step
  
• to thread (pearls on a string), commonly contracted to trä
  
• to plow (a fallow)  
  
• http://en.wiktionary.../träda#Swedish

Swedish
Idiom

pengar växer inte på träd
money doesn't grow on trees

Curious how 'the tree' became interpreted into tread, to walk, to step.



thread is a form of fallow, which means to be cultivated but only seeded once a year, like Frya, Lyda and Finda (at each Juul time) - maybe the OD ploughed them...lol
3
: to copulate with —used of a male bird http://www.merriam-w...ictionary/tread

tread softly for here lies Adela does not have tread, it has hlap (step) - so treda as tread might not be actually the meaning in the OLB text.

Edited by The Puzzler, 10 October 2012 - 04:57 AM.

[Otharus]

Abramelin, on 10 October 2012 - 01:18 AM, said:

Otharus is convinced it is part of the next sentence...

Because there is a full stop between DRAMA and WRALDA'S, and nothing between WRALDA'S and OD.

[Otharus]

I know you think it is a hyphen, but many hyphens look like full stops and vice versa.



Here is an example of a few pages ahead, where a full stop looks like it could have been be a hyphen.

[Abramelin]

The Puzzler, on 10 October 2012 - 03:43 AM, said:

Because where it said OD in the Frisian Dictionary at ord it also says anfang - which is beginning. So OD can mean this.

It also said "nnfries" or neu nordfries = NEW north Frisian.

[Abramelin]

The Puzzler, on 10 October 2012 - 03:43 AM, said:

No, Im trying to find a good meaning for trâd - which rather than 'made a path' or tread inside them, could actually mean 'rooted' in side them, took root etc because Frisian quite distinctly has it as not only tread but TREE.

Again: nnordfries. trede, tree

And it's not the English TREE and also has nothing to do with any tree, but it's short for TREDEN. We even say it here, in poems: treeën or tree-en. The -D- get swallowed up, but it still means TREDEN or to tread.

You better not follow that path, for it leads nowhere.

We Dutch, and also the Frisians, leave out a -D-  regularly:

DU: lade ('lah-duh') >> la ('lah') EN: drawer
DU: trede ('trey-duh') >> tree ('trey') EN: step or stair ,

And less official:
LODEN = made from lead, lead as adjective. Many pronounce it here as 'looie', or 'loh-yuh'.



.

Edited by Abramelin, 10 October 2012 - 09:01 AM.

[The Puzzler]

Abramelin, on 10 October 2012 - 08:42 AM, said:

Again: nnordfries. trede, tree

And it's not the English TREE and also has nothing to do with any tree, but it's short for TREDEN. We even say it here, in poems: treeën or tree-en. The -D- get swallowed up, but it still means TREDEN or to tread.

You better not follow that path, for it leads nowhere.

We Dutch, and also the Frisians, leave out a -D-  regularly:

DU: lade ('lah-duh') >> la ('lah') EN: drawer
DU: trede ('trey-duh') >> tree ('trey') EN: step or stair ,

And less official:
LODEN = made from lead, lead as adjective. Many pronounce it here as 'looie', or 'loh-yuh'.



.

Seemingly so.

I still think it's an unknown possibilty, considering the tree of life or tree of the world goes up to heaven, like a ladder, tread. You can climb a tree too and one with no leaves can look just like a ladder. Think Jacob's Ladder. Did Jacob really climb a 'ladder' or was he climbing the world tree, who knows or maybe nobody wants us to know.
Anyway, I think plow/plough being part of treda is more interesting, considering how the 'Plough' in the night sky treads around the Pole Star. At the top of the tree.

[Abramelin]

OK, it's getting funnier every time: Wralda's  (r )od plowed through them, and....



.

Edited by Abramelin, 10 October 2012 - 12:50 PM.

[The Puzzler]

Abramelin, on 10 October 2012 - 12:47 PM, said:

OK, it's getting funnier every time: Wralda's  (r )od plowed through them, and....



.

I know it sounds funny but tread and plow mean basically make a path, as you turn the soil or tear up the ground. Astronomically, the dot/od would be the Pole Star and the plough is the ox, or pathway, treading around it.

Interestingly...
These seven stars (septentriones, from the phrase septem triōnēs, meaning "seven plough oxen"^[5]) are the origin of the Latin word septentriōnēs meaning "north" and now found as the adjective septentrional (northern) in English, French, Italian, Portuguese and Spanish. This etymology goes back to a passage in Varro (Marcus Terentius) who explains that triōn- (a word not attested elsewhere) means "plough ox" and derives the form from terō, one of whose meanings is "thresh grain by rubbing".The derivation is acceptable (Latin short vowels often syncopate before -r- in medial syllables), but the meaning, if Varro is right about the root derivation, is surely "threshing ox", as the seven stars (oxen) perpetually wheel about the pole star like oxen on a threshing floor.
http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Big_dipper



Just for interest:
Here's a picture from Sweden of someone with an ARD (plough)



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ard_(plough)

which can be found at erd and ere...

er-d

, *er-ed, afries., Sb.: nhd. Pflügen; ne. ploughing

er-e

, afries., M.?: nhd. Pflügen; ne. ploughing

Edited by The Puzzler, 10 October 2012 - 01:55 PM.