15 replies to this topic

[notoverrated]

make a distinction between insane and sane killers? or a insane and sane criminals period? shouldn't we all have to get the same punishment for the same crime? why does it matter if you are "legally" insane? if you killed someone you belong in jail with the other killers no special treatment should be given. so what do you guys think about "insane vs sane" killers and criminals?

[Bling]

If they are insane, mentally ill, and kill while not of sound mind - so not in control of their actions, then I don't believe they should be punished the same as someone who kills out of pure evil intent. Mentally ill people who kill should be put into maximum security psychiatric care not on death row or prisons....in my opinion.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

"Insane" implies that they do not understand the implications of their actions, while "sane" implies they do and did it anyway.
While you get upset at a baby for throwing up on you, you get angry at an adult - it's the same thing, the later knows that their action is wrong, while the former doesn't.

[notoverrated]

Bling, on 28 September 2012 - 11:22 PM, said:

If they are insane, mentally ill, and kill while not of sound mind - so not in control of their actions, then I don't believe they should be punished the same as someone who kills out of pure evil intent. Mentally ill people who kill should be put into maximum security psychiatric care not on death row or prisons....in my opinion.

but why? they just killed someone. you could make a argument for anyone that kills another human that they are insane. control or not control the person who was killed didnt have any control either but paid the ultimate price.

Wearer of Hats, on 28 September 2012 - 11:23 PM, said:

"Insane" implies that they do not understand the implications of their actions, while "sane" implies they do and did it anyway.
While you get upset at a baby for throwing up on you, you get angry at an adult - it's the same thing, the later knows that their action is wrong, while the former doesn't.

that is also something that doesnt cause someone their life.

[Bling]

Being evil and being ill are two different things. Tests are run by experts on murderers to ascertain whether they were of sound mind when they did the deed. If they were ill then they couldn't help it, it's that simple. But if they killed in a premeditated act then they are evil in my eyes and should be punished with inprisonment.

[notoverrated]

Bling, on 28 September 2012 - 11:30 PM, said:

Being evil and being ill are two different things. Tests are run by experts on murderers to ascertain whether they were of sound mind when they did the deed. If they were ill then they couldn't help it, it's that simple. But if they killed in a premeditated act then they are evil in my eyes and should be punished with imprisonment.

well if its premeditated its diffrent no matter who you are, but if a sane and insane person comits the exact same murder should there be a difference?  i dont think i could go around raping people and my excuse is i didnt know better that shouldn't get me out of the punishment. and who decides weather they know better?

[Hilander]

While someone might of been insane when they committed the murder I still think they need to be put away possibly in a mental institution.  Maybe not the death penalty though but that would depend on their level of insanity.

[notoverrated]

Hilander, on 28 September 2012 - 11:39 PM, said:

While someone might of been insane when they committed the murder I still think they need to be put away possibly in a mental institution.  Maybe not the death penalty though but that would depend on their level of insanity.

wat about sharks? if a shark attacks one person there is a hunt for the shark to kill it. the shark doesnt know better he is acting naturally but in the end we kill it because he is in the end a threat to us well the insane man/women is a threat to us so we should treat them as any other threat of their level if it is lethal injection or a life sentence to prison.

[Bling]

notoverrated, on 28 September 2012 - 11:34 PM, said:

well if its premeditated its diffrent no matter who you are, but if a sane and insane person comits the exact same murder should there be a difference?  i dont think i could go around raping people and my excuse is i didnt know better that shouldn't get me out of the punishment. and who decides weather they know better?

It's not a case of 'knowing better' it's about having control of their mind and actions. When someone is having a psychotic episode for example, then they are not totally aware of what they are doing, they are in their own little world. Any murderer should be punished, but if they are insane they should not be put to death or housed in a prison. They are ill and should be in a hospital for the criminally insane.

[A Shadow]

I once had a dog that was big and rough and killed a smaller dog while playing with it. I could tell it was on accident and she was not acting vicious or in attack mode in any way. I kept her away on her own after that day on in just in case. If she would of full blown out attack and gone into crazy mode I might of had her taken away instead.  She never once attack or bit anyone.

I suppose this could compare in a way to this topic.

Edited by A Shadow, 01 October 2012 - 12:08 PM.

[libstaK]

I do, in principle, believe committing murder or rape/vicious assault is an act of insanity.  Having said that, there are those that can behave completely rationally and plan their next crime months ahead and in great detail so as not to get caught and even behave as productive members of society.  Then there are those that are not even aware they are doing something abhorrent or care less where and when they act or if they get caught because the emotion is ruling them absolutely and has no care for consequences.

The rational can be incarcerated in a normal prison with rules and not require any particular special attention to continue to act rationally "out of harms way".  The second kind need constant supervision and medication to prevent an "impulsive outburst" and only under those conditions can they be prevented from killing again, so both jails and mental institutions have their place for dealing with humanities most disturbingly insane folk if you really get right down to it.

[Amy the Mighty]

Firstly, if you commit a crime while you are not fully in control of yourself (mentally ill, intellectually deficient, etc), then you cannot be found fully responsible for your actions. Secondly, a court will only administer a penalty to you if the court believes that you are able to understand why you are being penalised. If the court believes that the penalty would be pointless, because you are not mentally well enough, or intellectually able, to understand why you are being punished, there is really no point to penalise you. For a punishment to have any merit, the person must be able to understand what they did, and why they are being punished. They must understand in order to show any remorse for their actions.

A boy I worked with years ago, set fire to a house in in neighbourhood. The man who lived in the house, was burnt to death. Everyone was horrified and outraged at what the boy did, but because he was a minor, and had an intellectual disability (70-75 range IQ score), the court found him not guilty, by way of intellectual capacity. The court was very clear that they understood that yes, he was the person who set fire to the house, but that he was not intellectually able to understand the outcome of lighting the fire. He wasn't old enough or smart enough to think of the consequences, and so they established that there was no intent to kill the man. Also, because of his intellectual limitations, he wasn't able to completely understand why a court would punish him. The court decided that punishment would be pointless, because the boy couldn't understand why he was being punished.

[R4z3rsPar4d0x]

Thats why so very few serial killers get off with the insanity plea because most serial killers are NOT insane when there committing there acts of murder.  Its not just a spur of the moment thing with them in most cases

[SpiritWriter]

The problem is when the punishment becomes so light that they get released again. My friend was stabbed 24 times by a repeat offender who was mentally insane. She was stabbed in the heart, stomach arms and in one eye. It is miraculous that she is not dead, but she is however permanently blind. The vision of her attack was the last thing she was ever able to see, it is very very sad. Her and her family are unconcerned that her attacker is clinically insane. It has only been 5 years and they are already talking about releasing her. One of her previous crimes was lighting a gas station attendant on fire. And something else, but I forgot... in their eyes she shouldn't have ever been on the street in the first place and if they release her now she will do it again.

I personally agree with the putting them in maximum security psychiatric care, but also with not releasing them.

It so sad that people have to be this extremely ill..... my lord..

[R4z3rsPar4d0x]

SpiritWriter, on 02 October 2012 - 10:54 PM, said:

The problem is when the punishment becomes so light that they get released again. My friend was stabbed 24 times by a repeat offender who was mentally insane. She was stabbed in the heart, stomach arms and in one eye. It is miraculous that she is not dead, but she is however permanently blind. The vision of her attack was the last thing she was ever able to see, it is very very sad. Her and her family are unconcerned that her attacker is clinically insane. It has only been 5 years and they are already talking about releasing her. One of her previous crimes was lighting a gas station attendant on fire. And something else, but I forgot... in their eyes she shouldn't have ever been on the street in the first place and if they release her now she will do it again.

I personally agree with the putting them in maximum security psychiatric care, but also with not releasing them.

It so sad that people have to be this extremely ill..... my lord..

Yeah she should be put in a hospital and they should not let this person out so easily especially if they know her past crimes...I agree it is sick