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economic crisis and civilization


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#1    me-wonders

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 04:55 PM

This may not seem the place to put this subject, but I just took a little blue pill.  That means my anxiety alarm is going off.   In a few minutes I should be as mellow as a cat lazying in the sun.  I have done this, because the reality of the economic turn down has hit home.  It took awhile for budget cuts to reach my family.  We all thought my daughter's job in a drug and alcohol detox center that serves most of Oregon, would be safe.  She is now applying for unemployment, because of budget cuts to a place where people could die without treatment.

This comes after closing down half our jail.  We are now putting tracking bracelets on people sentenced to jail, and they are being housed in our mission, the charity place for homeless people.   Some of those released from jail immediately committed another crime.  In general, the fear of punishment is not a strong force in preventing crime, because everyone knows jail time is very short.

We might see major cuts to the food assistant program.  Life depends on 3 things, water, food and shelter.  I don't think there is a city in the US with adequate housing for low income and no income people, and most have laws preventing people from sheltering themselves in tents on public property.   A large portion of our population can not adequately meet these needs, because they are out of work.   If we cut food stamps, how much worse will things be?

My head is screaming because we are not gathering adequate information and we are not working with reality. This is what I really need help with.  I think we need to greatly improve our information gathering, and the media's willingness to keep us informed, as we face major changes in employment and housing, and possibly other measures of welfare.  Any advise in what questions need to be ask, and how to go about surveying people?

Edited by me-wonders, 31 December 2012 - 05:02 PM.


#2    ealdwita

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 05:11 PM

This kind of thing is happening all over the industrialised world, me-wonders, and it's going to escalate. Just thank your lucky stars you live in a country that allows you to defend yourselves!

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#3    Coffey

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 06:42 PM

China is doing great though, but then that's because they are producing everything for us. LOL

Half of me wants this to get better for obvious reasons. The other half of me wants it to get worse so people really see who runs the world and realises we are slaves to a minority so we can start our revolution........

It makes me laugh how it's actually a fact that a few people run the world and we all stand by and let it happen and let them enslave us in debt.


View Postealdwita, on 31 December 2012 - 05:11 PM, said:

This kind of thing is happening all over the industrialised world, me-wonders, and it's going to escalate. Just thank your lucky stars you live in a country that allows you to defend yourselves!


Well we are allowed Cross bows.... lol

Also i have a decent arsenal of melee weaponry. lol

When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace.

#4    jugoso

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 06:58 PM

View Postme-wonders, on 31 December 2012 - 04:55 PM, said:



I think we need to greatly improve our information gathering, and the media's willingness to keep us informed, as we face major changes in employment and housing, and possibly other measures of welfare.  Any advise in what questions need to be ask, and how to go about surveying people?

I sympathize with you me-wonders. It is truly sad that a country as wealthy as the US is closing the types of programs your daughter worked at.  I wouldn´t hold your breath waiting to truly inform you. Pure propaganda IMO. You really need to dig and read between the lines to get a better understanding of what is happening and why.

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Free your mind and you ass will follow.
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#5    Ashotep

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 07:08 PM

They close jails, rehab and detox programs and those to help people with mental problems yet they wonder why the mass murders.

China may be doing great but don't think the people working themselves to death do.


#6    Coffey

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 07:13 PM

View PostHilander, on 31 December 2012 - 07:08 PM, said:

They close jails, rehab and detox programs and those to help people with mental problems yet they wonder why the mass murders.

China may be doing great but don't think the people working themselves to death do.


I was more making the point that corporate companies make money from outsourcing to china but our economy suffers greatly for it.
:td:


Your other point is completely spot on, that is exactly why these shootings etc are happening.

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#7    me-wonders

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 05:23 PM

View PostCoffey, on 31 December 2012 - 06:42 PM, said:

China is doing great though, but then that's because they are producing everything for us. LOL

Half of me wants this to get better for obvious reasons. The other half of me wants it to get worse so people really see who runs the world and realises we are slaves to a minority so we can start our revolution........

It makes me laugh how it's actually a fact that a few people run the world and we all stand by and let it happen and let them enslave us in debt.





Well we are allowed Cross bows.... lol

Also i have a decent arsenal of melee weaponry. lol

Okay, it looks like you are willing to think on the subject.   We have waged a very successful war against communism, but who owns the land, and do human beings have any right to the essentials of life?   Who makes the rules and who has the power to enforce them?


#8    me-wonders

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 05:26 PM

View Postjugoso, on 31 December 2012 - 06:58 PM, said:

I sympathize with you me-wonders. It is truly sad that a country as wealthy as the US is closing the types of programs your daughter worked at.  I wouldn´t hold your breath waiting to truly inform you. Pure propaganda IMO. You really need to dig and read between the lines to get a better understanding of what is happening and why.

Read what?  This is no time to play coy.  Democracy means power of the people.  For the people to have power they must have shared information and social agreements.    What is the information we need, and what are the agreements we must make?


#9    Coffey

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 09:30 PM

View Postme-wonders, on 02 January 2013 - 05:23 PM, said:

Okay, it looks like you are willing to think on the subject.   We have waged a very successful war against communism, but who owns the land, and do human beings have any right to the essentials of life?   Who makes the rules and who has the power to enforce them?


Nature owns the land, pagans/wiccans worked that fact out thousands of years ago. Sadly greedy people want to claim it all then make money from it.

Communism was a load of propaganda, just like terrorism.

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#10    NiteMarcher

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 12:54 AM

DERIVATIVES:  The Unregulated Global Casino for Banks

Pick something of value, make bets on the future values of "something," add contract and you have a derivative.
Banks make massive profits on derivatives, and when the bubble bursts chances are the tax payer will end up with the bill.
This visualizes the total coverage for derivatives (notional). Similar to insurance company's total coverage for all cars.

Edited by NiteMarcher, 03 January 2013 - 12:56 AM.

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everyone is given a chance at making a home run...

#11    White Crane Feather

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 06:36 AM

There is nothing to be done. Our system is not based on sound principals therefore everything that our system supports will evenchually fail.

Only after I lyes in ruins can it be built with a better foundation.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
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#12    sutemi

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 08:00 AM

View Postme-wonders, on 02 January 2013 - 05:23 PM, said:

Okay, it looks like you are willing to think on the subject.   We have waged a very successful war against communism, but who owns the land, and do human beings have any right to the essentials of life?   Who makes the rules and who has the power to enforce them?

“Poverty is the parent of revolution and crime” Aristotle 384-322bc

Hi MW, Sorry to hear your new year has started off on such a sad note. It’s not just the ordinary people of the US that is feeling pain, the greed of the upper classes is now rampant across the world. They own the media and the politicians. We are told we have no money for the poor ( who the media tell us are lazy scum) but hey NO problem when it comes to WAR. As Martin luther king said The US has a spiritual poverty. When will people see we have only one world and we are ALL human beings. Here's an article from the UK press and the same thing is happening here aswell the hand of corporate greed slithers across the globe.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/dec/29/fbi-coordinated-crackdown-occupy   

‘The poverty of our century is unlike that of any other: it is not, as poverty was before, the result of natural scarcity, but a set of priorities imposed on the rest of the world by the Rich. Consequently, the modern poor are not pitied, but written off as trash’. John Berger  


Edited by sutemi, 03 January 2013 - 08:02 AM.


#13    me-wonders

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 02:05 PM

I am wanting to expand this topic.  I do not use credit, and really do not understand it.  I am from the old school of saving until you can afford something.  Now I read this explanation of electric companies being afraid of their credit being down graded and I think what the heck?   Is this credit grading something that has driven economies around the world off the cliff?  I mean wow, what a great con to get everyone to believe they are better off if they are in debt, and therefore, everyone intentionally staying in debt, and forever, owing the banks.  Isn't something seriously wrong with this?

http://www.newser.co...ampaign=rss_3_2


#14    me-wonders

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 02:22 PM

View Postsutemi, on 03 January 2013 - 08:00 AM, said:

“Poverty is the parent of revolution and crime” Aristotle 384-322bc

Hi MW, Sorry to hear your new year has started off on such a sad note. It’s not just the ordinary people of the US that is feeling pain, the greed of the upper classes is now rampant across the world. They own the media and the politicians. We are told we have no money for the poor ( who the media tell us are lazy scum) but hey NO problem when it comes to WAR. As Martin luther king said The US has a spiritual poverty. When will people see we have only one world and we are ALL human beings. Here's an article from the UK press and the same thing is happening here aswell the hand of corporate greed slithers across the globe.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/dec/29/fbi-coordinated-crackdown-occupy   

‘The poverty of our century is unlike that of any other: it is not, as poverty was before, the result of natural scarcity, but a set of priorities imposed on the rest of the world by the Rich. Consequently, the modern poor are not pitied, but written off as trash’. John Berger  


My God, you gave us vitally important information.  That takes this thread to a whole new level.  Are we still questioning why the Germans did not stop NAZI Germany?

We need a revolution.  It is best if it is not violent.   However, I don't think the average person has the strength of will to, refuse to play the banks games, and to refuse to do business with companies that are playing bankers game.   Between the bankers, CIA and FBI, operating with local police forces,  we may be in much deeper trouble than we realized?


#15    Beany

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 02:49 PM

View Postme-wonders, on 31 December 2012 - 04:55 PM, said:

This may not seem the place to put this subject, but I just took a little blue pill.  That means my anxiety alarm is going off.   In a few minutes I should be as mellow as a cat lazying in the sun.  I have done this, because the reality of the economic turn down has hit home.  It took awhile for budget cuts to reach my family.  We all thought my daughter's job in a drug and alcohol detox center that serves most of Oregon, would be safe.  She is now applying for unemployment, because of budget cuts to a place where people could die without treatment.

This comes after closing down half our jail.  We are now putting tracking bracelets on people sentenced to jail, and they are being housed in our mission, the charity place for homeless people.   Some of those released from jail immediately committed another crime.  In general, the fear of punishment is not a strong force in preventing crime, because everyone knows jail time is very short.

We might see major cuts to the food assistant program.  Life depends on 3 things, water, food and shelter.  I don't think there is a city in the US with adequate housing for low income and no income people, and most have laws preventing people from sheltering themselves in tents on public property.   A large portion of our population can not adequately meet these needs, because they are out of work.   If we cut food stamps, how much worse will things be?

My head is screaming because we are not gathering adequate information and we are not working with reality. This is what I really need help with.  I think we need to greatly improve our information gathering, and the media's willingness to keep us informed, as we face major changes in employment and housing, and possibly other measures of welfare.  Any advise in what questions need to be ask, and how to go about surveying people?

I think the information is out there. Have you thought about joining some kind of organization that advocates for people, and educates? Group action can be very powerful. My heart goes out to you. Things will get better economically, but until then, life is difficult for many people. It's strange to me that some people here in the US want to cut the very essential benefits like food stamps & welfare that allow people to survive, in a time where it's most needed.





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