What is wrong with Islam

[truethat]

I am raising my kids as Muslims more due to cultural reasons. I am an atheist. But I want them to know their heritage.

But I have heard about the recent outbreaks in Somalia and the women trapped without their burqas and left to burn in a fire in Saudi and I am just really appalled at the religion lately. Have been for a while but Somalia is just the final straw.

Since it seems, forever, all we hear are violence and brutality coming at the hands of this religion. I am tired of hearing the words "Islamic" and then hearing about death and destruction. What gives? Its enough to make me want to just nuke them into kingdom come. (Wrong I know)

Last night I was talking to my son and I pointed out that Jews Christians and Muslims all say they believe in the same God.

I compared it to three neighbors getting a letter from God. And inside the message is basically the same. But they start fighting over which mailman was a better carrier.

God never says in ANY of the books to worship the messenger. Yet the Christians worship Jesus and the Muslims worship Mohammed. (even if they say they don't they do)

Why is there all this fighting over who has the best mail man if the God is supposedly the same.

Its ENOUGH. Don't religious people see the damage that this is doing to the world? Why don't you all just friggin STOP already.

[GoddessWhispers]

People give life to the faith that sustains the religion. Violent terroristic ideologies, applied as translations of faithful scripture, doesn't speak of the "god" those scriptures are attempting to impart a vision of, to the mind of the believer. Rather, I think, it speaks of those that would translate the words so and thereby attempt to substantiate their vicious natures as an ordinance from that kind of god.

The women that burned to death did so because they believed more strongly in the faith that said they were prohibited to be seen in public without their Burka, than they believed they were entitled to live. So instead they burned alive, only to have their charcoaled bodies removed into the public domain, without those Burka's. The women and their faith, overcame the inherent "fight or flight" survival reflex common to almost all people. The men, related to those imperiled women, watching this tragedy in the making flame to life before their eyes. And they believed more in the faith that said their women were prohibited from being seen in public without their Burka's, more so than they believed they wanted to see their women again, alive and healthy. They curbed that "hero" adrenaline, that would compel some people to break through those flames, or enter into that building and escort those women out, even if all they had to do so was an article of their own clothing.

People give life to faith and in so doing, in extreme cases of personal faithful sacrifice as this, literally so. And all the while, I believe they believe they do so because gods will, as they understand it, makes it necessary. Which speaks to the kind of god image they choose to believe in by creating that invisible patriarch, in defining it requires this of it's faithful.

So with respect to your letter and mailman analogy, how about this. How about those three families, jew, christian and muslim, all received a letter from three different mailmen. And while the letters says the same exact thing, each one reading reads the salutation as exclusively addressed to the jew. Or the christian, or the muslim. And so the people with their letters begin arguing about exactly who among them those identical words, are really talking to.

And what they seek to intercede and calm this conflict, is the advice of higher minds amid their own particular sect. So the jews Rabbi says, well my daughter it is clear this letter is addressed to you. And the christians pastor says the same thing. As does the Imam of that muslim.

Now we have three neighbors and superior learned backup, arguing as to who it is those words on that page is really meant for.

There is an old wisdom that says, if you do not find that which you seek, inside yourself you shall not find it elsewhere. So true. Because how does one know what they're looking for, if they don't have a connection , an instinct, of what it would look like once they find it!?

Imagine someone telling you, go look for a spatula and let me know when you find it. But you've never heard of that word, much less have any clue what that looks like. How long do you think you'll be looking, going with that understanding of what a spatula is, so as to be found!?

Raise your children from your heart, so that they learn to love themselves as the manifestation of the god you seek to inspire them to know. Because from there, and that level of self-love, imparted by the parent so full of love for them, they'll not ever worry you they might take what they feel about that and harm themselves later. Much less harm anyone else. Because if they love themselves as the creation and in the name of that god you told them about, they'll realize that power , being god, must certainly be able to make others if it indeed made them, in the beginning. So they'll know that if they harm others in the name of that , they're also harming themselves. And that would be unthinkable because they know themselves to be the embodiment of the love, that some choose to call god. But that really isn't so easily contained, by just three simple letters, at all.

Edited December 20, 2006 by GoddessWhispers

[seanph]

TT, there are many reasons why I fled the Christian faith--one being the bitter infighting and blatannt hypocrisy. I simply realized that such things proved that god--at least a knowable god--did not exist. I see the same things in the other major religions as well--sectarian violence off the charts. It has been the same for thousands of years. Sadly, it will not end until we step into the 21st century, put away fanciful dreams of gods, and live for the now instead of an afterlife. Only then, do we have a chance of bettering our world.

Kindly,

Sean

Edited December 20, 2006 by seanph

[Irish]

God never says in ANY of the books to worship the messenger. Yet the Christians worship Jesus and the Muslims worship Mohammed. (even if they say they don't they do)

Why is there all this fighting over who has the best mail man if the God is supposedly the same.

Its ENOUGH. Don't religious people see the damage that this is doing to the world? Why don't you all just friggin STOP already.

Mohamed claimed to be a messenger from God and we can take him for his word or not.

Jesus never claimed to be a messenger from God, Matthew 27:43 He trusts in God. Let God rescue him now if he wants him, for he said, `I am the Son of God.'"

Same concept you either take Him for His word or not.

[Irish]

Most Moslems arrive at Islam as a cultural or family norm in fact I would guess the number to be around 90% with the remaining 10% to be from honest research and a personal decision.

Where as in Christianity that first figure is around 25% mostly catholic based. I can attest to that as I was raised catholic but rejected it when I made an honest attempt at reconciling their beliefs with the scriptures themselves. I would guess again that only a further 25% arrived at Christianity by honest research and a personal decision. The rest are somewhere in the middle or undecided.

Irish

[truethat]

I agree Irish that Jesus never said he was the "messenger" per say, but in his life he acted as the mailman so to speak.

[Irish]

I agree Irish that Jesus never said he was the "messenger" per say, but in his life he acted as the mailman so to speak.

I agree on that point

[mailboy]

It can also be due to a pro Christain/Judaism agenda that controls media. these 3 religions all have a history of extreme brutality and bloodshed. Islam seems to be more so in the modern era than any. Just remember that extremist may be a small sect, but they can cause HUGE attention. There is pure Islam all over the world. Don't let the more publicized poor decisions of some outweigh the forgotten beautiful decisions of others.

[Dante's Inferno]

It can also be due to a pro Christain/Judaism agenda that controls media. these 3 religions all have a history of extreme brutality and bloodshed. Islam seems to be more so in the modern era than any. Just remember that extremist may be a small sect, but they can cause HUGE attention. There is pure Islam all over the world. Don't let the more publicized poor decisions of some outweigh the forgotten beautiful decisions of others.

As I've said on other threads before I'm neither Christian or Muslim however I cannot for the life of me truly understand the Islamic faith since it segregates half of its own congregation(women). Women being circumcised to lower their libido's I believe is a direct attack on a humans personal rights! many women have only just recently dicovered that this barbaric practice isn't even mentioned in the Quran! i truly believe that the Islamic faith has been hijacked by power hungry men to form an exclusive "boys club"! How can faith be used as an excuse for denying the human right of education for all.

[trickyhomunculi]

Here we go again , people see extremist behavior and they think that is the norm, give me a fu@#&*% break. I showed this artical to my husband who is pakastani and he was disucsted. My mother in law couldnt belive , sick , sick , people among other curses she said. Why do people only choose to see what the media projects to you, cause its not the only and absolute truth. Yes there are these moran extremest but they do not make up they muslim population not even half ,but I guess people need to FEEL GOOD about THIER WAR OF TERROR.

[trickyhomunculi]

As I've said on other threads before I'm neither Christian or Muslim however I cannot for the life of me truly understand the Islamic faith since it segregates half of its own congregation(women). Women being circumcised to lower their libido's I believe is a direct attack on a humans personal rights! many women have only just recently dicovered that this barbaric practice isn't even mentioned in the Quran! i truly believe that the Islamic faith has been hijacked by power hungry men to form an exclusive "boys club"! How can faith be used as an excuse for denying the human right of education for all.

Get your facts strait!!!!!!! This may be smally practiced in the east most muslims dont even know about this and most certinanly NOT a comman thing AT ALL . if you wanna talk about that talk about AFICA where it IS comman practice. People just spout shi* outta thier mouths and dont even know what the hell they are talking about.....HOW MANY MUSLIM wemon do YOU KNOW ????????? YEAH I DIDNT THINK SOOOOO. I know plenty and NONE of them are circumcised.

Edited December 21, 2006 by clover

[Dante's Inferno]

Get your facts strait!!!!!!! This may be smally practiced in the east most muslims dont even know about this and most certinanly NOT a comman thing AT ALL . if you wanna talk about that talk about AFICA where it IS comman practice. People just spout shi* outta thier mouths and dont even know what the hell they are talking about.....HOW MANY MUSLIM wemon do YOU KNOW ????????? YEAH I DIDNT THINK SOOOOO. I know plenty and NONE of them are circumcised.

Before you start yelling at my comments let me set the record straight with you I actually know many Muslim women thank you very much and all of them are very dear friends to me! also several of these women "escaped " their homelands so as not to face such discrimination. will you deny that in many Muslim countries under sharia law women are continually segragted from the men and prohibited from even receiving an education (basic human right )? I live and work in a prodominately Muslim area so please don't tell me I don't know any muslim women!!

[trickyhomunculi]

Before you start yelling at my comments let me set the record straight with you I actually know many Muslim women thank you very much and all of them are very dear friends to me! also several of these women "escaped " their homelands so as not to face such discrimination. will you deny that in many Muslim countries under sharia law women are continually segragted from the men and prohibited from even receiving an education (basic human right )? I live and work in a prodominately Muslim area so please don't tell me I don't know any muslim women!!

OHH YEAH all the muslim wemon you know "ESCAPED" .LMAO... I married into a muslim family I've been to the mosk meet many people and I have to tell you all the they love their country and go back often to visit and are all educated and when they are sepert from the men it is cause they want to be, you know not every one thinks like you. I think you are full of SH*# and you know it.

[Dante's Inferno]

OHH YEAH all the muslim wemon you know "ESCAPED" .LMAO... I married into a muslim family I've been to the mosk meet many people and I have to tell you all the they love their country and go back often to visit and are all educated and when they are sepert from the men it is cause they want to be, you know not every one thinks like you. I think you are full of SH*# and you know it.

firstly I resent your personal attacks they are not necessary I'm not attck you am I? I was simply trying to get your opinion as a women who is also a Muslim. I am not full of sh** if your would like to know more about me and the people I know and work with please feel free to Pm me instead of insulting me. Can I just highlight the point that I presume that since you originate from Kentucky that you are living as a Muslim in the States is that true? If so then of course people are educated and have not need to complain. however maybe you should research more about the plight of women uder sharia law in such places as Kashmir and other places in Afganistan. Am I wrong in saying that in these areas the Taliban enforce strict control over females in schools?

[trickyhomunculi]

firstly I resent your personal attacks they are not necessary I'm not attck you am I? I was simply trying to get your opinion as a women who is also a Muslim. I am not full of sh** if your would like to know more about me and the people I know and work with please feel free to Pm me instead of insulting me. Can I just highlight the point that I presume that since you originate from Kentucky that you are living as a Muslim in the States is that true? If so then of course people are educated and have not need to complain. however maybe you should research more about the plight of women uder sharia law in such places as Kashmir and other places in Afganistan. Am I wrong in saying that in these areas the Taliban enforce strict control over females in schools?

ok SORRY I'm just kinda defensive cause every one is making generalizations about muslims. Yes there are opressed areas but as there are in many places and your making it sound as if all the wemon you know escaped I just find that very strange cause I know NO wemon that have had ESCAPE, and you KNOW MANY ... just sounds fishy if you ask me.

[Dante's Inferno]

ok SORRY I'm just kinda defensive cause every one is making generalizations about muslims. Yes there are opressed areas but as there are in many places and your making it sound as if all the wemon you know escaped I just find that very strange cause I know NO wemon that have had ESCAPE, and you KNOW MANY ... just sounds fishy if you ask me.

I accept your apology and understand that it must be hard sometimes since most people do stereotype or generalize. Maybe my choice of words as in "escaped" was the wrong one. Many of my family, my parents included work for several human rights organisations. Many people male and female that I have met have simply been trying to lead better lives and leave the harsh restrictions that are placed upon them.

[truethat]

I find it hard to believe that the person responding to this is a true Muslim that refers to the Mosque as a mosk?

Believe me I am well aware of Islam. I was a practicing muslim for 6 years. I just did a symposium for one of my classes on the Hijabi and how they are represented in the media.

I'm not talking about the stereotypes. It made your husband sick to read THIS article? What about the article on Saudi where the women were locked in a fire because they weren't covered? How did that make him feel?

If these acts are the acts of "radical muslims" then in my opinion the Muslim majority needs to do more to stop them. Its crazy out of control because this problem is not addressed in the Muslim community itself.

How many Muslims do you know protest against acts of crime? I have seen plenty of Muslims protest about cartoons but ZERO Muslims that took the streets to protest 9-11 or the suicide bombings in Israel.

[Nova Scotia]

the female circumcision thing is mostly north west africa where it is done to most muslim women i know a fellow who married 4 muslim women and they all had it done .

In my opinion Islam is a new Religion with New Customs and Traditions not really found on earth before Muhamed .

the quran was wrote by one bunch of men that put their heads together where as the bible was wrote over hundreds of years by men that mostly never met . Only devine inspiration can explain like the book of daniel and revelation fitting like a glove fits a hand they help unlock each other . And John never Met Daniel . The bible is wrote in a here a little there a little , line upon line preciept upon preciept way to prove is devinely inspired . The Quran writers in my opinion just read the Bible and picked and chose what to keep and what to throw away . The Quran don't even tell man what Mankind was suppose to leave alone on this earth .

I don't think you could of Sold a Quran on earth if it wasn't for Ishmaelites a little upset over isac getting the better blessing in the bible . as nobody else would of figgured the need for new scriptures .

In the book of Revelation it warns severly about adding or taking away from that book , actually claims to take away could take away your part of the book of life . The muslims Take away the words of the book just because they don't like them with no proof that revelations is not a revalation of Jesus Christ . Dangerous Stuff to take away or Add to a book claiming to be a Revalation of Jesus Christ Delivered to him from the Holy Father with no proof what soever its not the real thing . If you take Rev 1 and Rev 3 and Put them together you will see the 24 elders of heaven kneeling down worshiping Jesus as God as muslims want to take that away and there is scripture warning you could lose your eternal life for taking the words away . Id be carefull what i cut out of a Bible you want to have the Proof it was added by a man and not Inspired by God Almighty . Somebody else getting a Better blessing is not a Reasn to Write the earthj a Brand new Holy Book and a Brand New Religion !

Most of modern Christianity don't come from the book its got other orgins but thats no reason to write a new Book .

[I want2no]

It can also be due to a pro Christain/Judaism agenda that controls media. these 3 religions all have a history of extreme brutality and bloodshed. Islam seems to be more so in the modern era than any. Just remember that extremist may be a small sect, but they can cause HUGE attention. There is pure Islam all over the world. Don't let the more publicized poor decisions of some outweigh the forgotten beautiful decisions of others.

There is a fascinating book that I am reading right now, it's called "Myths & Secrets, by Barbara Walker. It was published in 1982. It's now my Bible! I will never ever call any man made religion a religion of any God any longer after read this book. This book is a encyclopedia filled with many years of religious history. The research she did to put this book together had to be pains taking. There are many religious history books that tell and know just how evil the Church and many other different religions. This is just one book that explains the truth... It also gets deep into where, and why, and how religions got started. What it tells in that book is shocking. It also has references to many other books like it. Hope it helps.

Take care....

Edited December 21, 2006 by I want2no

[GoddessWhispers]

I have that book. What a read, especially for women as it is intended to given them a fair understanding of all that is otherwise obscured under the guise of the patriarchy suppressing so much of womens history. Or as some spiritual feminists call it, "herstory" (her-story). It's actually titled: "The Womens Encyclopedia of Myths and Secrets" . One of the most bookmarked titles in my personal library. Love that book.

[seanph]

I would also suggest the River of God by Gregory Riley. A wonderful read on the origin and evolution of Judaism and Christianity.

The River of God

http://www.amazon.com/River-God-History-Ch...TF8&s=books

Sean

Edited December 21, 2006 by seanph

[truethat]

Thanks for the book links guys. Those are awesome. I noticed no response to the question of why Muslims don't take to the streets to protest suicide bombings.

[Nova Scotia]

the problem on this earth is most of so called modern christianity is not the faith that The Man Jesus Christ had while he walked in the pages of our bibles . No resemblance what so ever to the Faith of Christ and most who claim they are selling the faith of Christ .

Christ walked this earth as a young jewish man to set an exsample that ye must follow his steps . Sabbath Keeping , Clean Foods , Hebrew Holy days were all part of Christ life which he did as an exsample of the real faith . How that became chanting keeping false holy days , praying to statues ect is debateable . Some figgure Peter never went to Rome and maybe it was Simon Magnus who went to Rome and started this new form of Christianity . In other words the church of Rome never had the holy spirit to start with its been a imposter sence day one .

Islam has been very successful only because it judges itself against a false christianity that was set up as a stumbling block to snair thinking men and mostly non thinking men.

Islam could not of been so successful if we never had false Christianity and all its foolish deeds .

Satan is not a Fool hes good at decieveing , he hid real christianity by surrounding it with Babalon the great (confussion the great , Mainstream christianity ) . Now you Got to Find the Needle In the Haystack or the very narrow way . The narrow way would be alot easier to find id people put their Eyes on Christ and beleaved His walk was really an Exsample and that ye must follow his steps ............He is the Way ! not a pope . Go back and Watch Jesuus Customs and Sabbaths , Holy Days ect then you may find that narrow way .

[I want2no]

Thanks for the book links guys. Those are awesome. I noticed no response to the question of why Muslims don't take to the streets to protest suicide bombings.

I have aften wondered the same thing. Why don't the true Muslims march in the streets against these suicide bombers? These guys are killing even they own Mulsim people. From what I have read there are about 1 billion Muslims on the planet Earth. The vast majority of these men, women, & children are completely peaceful. In fact, some even say that Islam means peace.

I have two Muslims friends they are both very gentle and peaceful people, and they detest what these extremist have done to their religion! The religious leaders of Islam world wide can help people who have some connection with Islam to understand that the violent extremists have distorted Islam in many ways. In other words I feel the extremist have hijacked Islam to meet their needs to war against who they call infidels. BUT in the reality of it all' these extreme Muslims are the ones who are the infidels, because they are NOT at all following their own Quranic teachings.

Christianity and Islam and Judaism have all had violent past histories. I personally can't see following anything with a violent past like that. But to each their, I always say. Maybe one day all the peaceful Muslims who make up the majority of that faith will have to one day fight back with their fellow so-called terrorsit Muslims who have been indoctrinated, and that have been "mind trained" into these violent terrorism acts against mankind. Maybe deprogramming these terrorist would work better, because it seems killing them only makes more terrorist!

Take care....

[sbradj]

dont know much about islam.never really cared much about all the different religeons.baptist,catholic ,whatever.always tried to focus on facts.to me looking through all the different takes on things the king james bible to me seems to be truth.to me when looking at the koran it seems to me just to be another remake of the bible.kinda like the mormans .the bible is reallyunattackable.if you really study it you will see the truth if you take it line upon line ,precept upon precept.the word of god without adding to or taking away from is very obvious to me to be the truth.jhn 17.17 thy word is truth.gods word also tells us there is salvation in no other name but jesus.i dont know where in the bible any of this was changed.and the same bible,the same truth tells us that not one jot nor tittle shall be changed without the curse.