DEVIL AS A PLURAL

[JET SAVAGE]

SORRY TO BURST ANY BUBBLES HERE, BUT I THINK THERE IS MORE THAN ONE DEVIL. TOO MUCH FOLK LORE HISTORY AND PHYSICAL EVIDENCE TO PROVE OTHERWISE ?

BESIDES, TO THE MAJORITY, `DEVIL` IS ONLY A LABEL, NOT A SPIECES OF `DEMI-gOD`, AS THE UNDERGROUND SOULS AND NON CATHOLIC MONKS MAY PUT IT. SO WHY IS THERE ONLY ONE DEVIL IN OUR BIBLE. A DEVIL THAT IS AN ANGEL NO LESS. FUNNY HUH ? i never figured that one out, so i write to you now.

THAT IS IF YOU EVER MET DEVILS. IN HUMAN SUITES. NO ARGUABULL PROOF ABOUT THE JESUS OR LUCIFER AUTHENTICITIES YET ANYBODY ? :angry2:

SO WHY IS AN ANGEL CALLED A DEVIL. DOES THE BIBLE EXPLAIN WHY LUCIFER IS A DEVIL, PLEASE SOMBODY EDUATE ME SO I CAN JUST SHUT UP.

PERHAPS THE DEVILS HAVE TAKEN OVER THE LUNATIC ASYLUM AND MADE )ONE OF( THE ANGELS OF LIGHT A BAD GUY)S( ?

WHO KNOWS, MAYBE IT WASN'T THE DEVELS BUT THE FALLEN ANGELS WHO PUKED OVER OUR EVOLUTION WITH CONTINUED MENTAL ENSLAVEMENT, DARK LORDS OF THE NIGHT, DEMONS, LIZARDS, SETH, COCO THE CLOWN.....AND LIED TO US THROUGH FALSE AND FORCEFULLY POPULATED DOCTRINES OF PURVERBIAL`TINVISIBLE GOD`

IF ANYBODY GOT ANY RESEARCH ON THIS DEVIL/ANGEL ASPECT OF LUCIFER, PLEASE PM ME.

P.S. THESE SO CALLED AGENT ) AS A PLURAL ( OF LUCIFER HAVE NOT ALLOWED A SINGLE YEAR OF PEACE IN THE MIDDLE EAST SINCE ABRAHAM. THERE IS PROOF ONLINE. IN FACT EVIDENCE ONLINE PROVES THE FACT THAT IT WAS THE CATHOLICS WHO SEALED THE LABLE ON LUCIFER AS THE DEVIL. BECAUSE HISTORICALY, IT WAS OUT OF THE HUNDREDS OF VARIATIONS OF PAGAN WORSHIPING RELIGIONS THAT A GROUP FORMED THE CATHOLS AND THE SAME PROCEDURE WAS PROBABLY MANIPULATED FOR ISLAM. WHERE BOTH RELIGIONS FOR ONCE HOLD A SUPPOSED COMMON ENEMY......DEVILS......()

I ALSO KNOW THAT MEN IN POWER HAVE BEEN KNOWN TO SOMETIMES MAKE THE ODD ERROR IN THE LINE OF DUTY.

ALL I CAN FEEL OF THE NEW TESTAMENT IS THAT JESUS WAS SAYING WHAT LUCIFER IS SUPPOSEDLY DOING.

ONLY PERHAPS SCORES OF CHRISTIANS ACTUALLY DO WORLD WIDE. TOO MANY OMMITIONS AND TOO MUCH DOCTRINE TO ENLIGHTEN THE PHYSICA/MIND AND SPIRIT S THE TRINITY. BUT THE ANSWER IS JUST AROUND THE CORNER. SUPPOSEDLY.

[Cadetak]

I'm going to have to make a list for you:

1. Typing in Caps is considered shouting, harder to read, and not very pretty.

2. Physical evidence is non existant when it comes to religion.

3. Lucifer was sent to hell because he tried to overthrow God's thrown. He was jealous of us and started a war in heaven.

4. The term "The Devil" is a general title like "God". Lucifer was his angel name but was changed to Satan after he went to hell. The Devil and God are titles like the terms King or Queen...so for example if God died Jesus would be then called God(that is if thats how it works up there).

5. The angels who assisted Lucifer in defying God joined Lucifer in hell. Any minion of Satan is generally refered to as a demon or a devil. These minions are Satan's counterparts to God's angels. When you go to heaven or hell you don't become an angel or demon...you would be seperate.

6. Christianity, Islam, Judiasm, etc. all worship the same God but in slightly different ways.

Disclaimer: Cadetak does not know how much of what he said is biblical canon, acepted by the church, accurate, or true.

[draconic chronicler]

I'm going to have to make a list for you:

1. Typing in Caps is considered shouting, harder to read, and not very pretty.

2. Physical evidence is non existant when it comes to religion.

3. Lucifer was sent to hell because he tried to overthrow God's thrown. He was jealous of us and started a war in heaven.

4. The term "The Devil" is a general title like "God". Lucifer was his angel name but was changed to Satan after he went to hell. The Devil and God are titles like the terms King or Queen...so for example if God died Jesus would be then called God(that is if thats how it works up there).

5. The angels who assisted Lucifer in defying God joined Lucifer in hell. Any minion of Satan is generally refered to as a demon or a devil. These minions are Satan's counterparts to God's angels. When you go to heaven or hell you don't become an angel or demon...you would be seperate.

6. Christianity, Islam, Judiasm, etc. all worship the same God but in slightly different ways.

Disclaimer: Cadetak does not know how much of what he said is biblical canon, acepted by the church, accurate, or true.

Actually you do know a lot about the modern "Christian Mythology", but this is not what the Bible actually says. Lucifer is not even in the Bible because it is a latin word meaning "morning star". It did not enter Christian theology until hundreds of years after Jesus was crucified, and no Hebrew speaking Jew will acknowledge Satan is Lucifer, because there is no lucifer, this is really a passage about the King of Babylon, and has nothing to do with Satan or fallen angels.

Lucifer as a fallen angel was a much later, invented concept of Christianity from around 500 AD I believe.

The creator of the universe cannot have an opponent. This is why God has no opponents in the OT. This is what the term "monotheism" means. Satan works for God, both in the OT and all of the related ancient scriptures which supports this same idea.

Some Christians are monotheists. Some have gone so far as to deny the existence of Satan altogether, which is a bit of a stretch becasue this contradicts the very OT books which Jesus endorsed as a pious Jew.

But these books only show Satan as the obedient servant and even one of the "Sons of God" in the book of Job, long after the Christians claim he seduced Eve. If that later Christian invention were true, why does Satan still have God's trust centuries later?

It is becasue Satan only becomes an opponent after the Jews returned from Babylon, polluted by dualistic Persian ideas of an evil dragon named ahriman who opposes the good God and as punishment is bound and cast into an abyss and when not repentent, is finally cast in the lake of fire. This was not Johns' Revelation vision, it was Perisan mythology written hundreds of years earlier and it infected Jewish theology, just as pagan beliefs have crept into Christian theology, like pagan Saturnalia and Easter rituals.

Satan is NEVER described as an angel in the Bible. The only physical description is that he is a fiery red dragon, which suggests he is a Seraphim, a word in hebrew which means "fiery flying Serpent" and translated by the ancient Jews themselves to the greek word "Drakon" But these dragons, including Satan are heavenly creatures, and there is nothing in the original bible of any of them, Satan included, rebelling from God in the only "Bible" ever acknowledged by Jesus. They seem to have been created as the instruments of God's wrath as various ancient scriptures confirm.

When Christian mythology contradicts the Holy Torah Jesus endorsed, it is imprudent to blindly accept it as the Truth. You can blindly take the belief the New Testament is all "inspired" because a Catholic Pope said so, even though the the books contradict one another. Or you can accept Jesus as the Son of God, as these men did, but understand they lived in a time when Judaism was contaminated with pagan Perisan and Greek theology, and understand that these good but simple men are a product of that time.

When Jesus cured the physically sick, this they could understand. When Jesus cured the mentally ill, this they couldn't understand. Instead, Schizophrenia became the pagan Greek invisible "daemons", that crept into Jewish theology after Alexander brought Hellenistic culture to the land of Israel. When the obedient Seraph dragon came to Jesus in the Wilderness to fullfill the Old Testament prophecies, and place the Messiah and the Jewish nation over all the powers of the secular world, Jesus refused him, because to accomplish this millions would die in the jaws of Satan and the other Seraphim. Instead, Jesus chose to die instead, so that these otherwise doomed pagans might seek redemption. This truth, the disciples again couldn't understand. So this became the improbable "temptations of Satan", which again makes no sense in a Monotheism where a creator God could have no rivals. When Jesus called Satan the prince of this world, it is because God Hhimself put Satan in that position, just as the book of Job claims, Satan watches the world and reports the inequities of man to God, and God allows his servant Satan to punish mankind.

These concepts of monotheism still cannot be comprehended by the vast majority of Christians of "gentile" origin. These Christians need a dualistic theology because they cannot accept a single monotheistic Creator responsible for good and evil, even though this is stated in the Holy Torah that Jesus believed

Edited December 21, 2006 by draconic chronicler

[Nova Scotia]

the bible tells us man don't walk the earth alone , but with spiritual beings ,principalitys or demons in high places Satan is just the leader i suspect their is millions of these fallen spiritual beings . Some figgure maybe 1/3 of all the spiritual beings are fallen and what we refer too as demons or devils . There seems to be like a prince of of major citys , so i guess this world has a kind of a hidden goverment that is actually helping goverments of man run this earth towards its distruction .

This spirit world is very busy decieveing and putting on shows most religions are inspired by this spirit world .

for this earth to have peace in the future this spirit world has to be locked up and for 1000 years the evil spirits will be locked up and the earth will get peace . After the 1000 years the evil spirits are released and even with Christ being here for the 1000 years they are capable of decieveing the world to war again . So i Guess the spirit world is very good at inspiring hate and decieveing .

Satan is the God of this world at this time he has most humans decieved into following him . He is very good at what he does . and loves to lie and decieve. And yes he has lots of Help .

[Isis2200]

SORRY TO BURST ANY BUBBLES HERE, BUT I THINK THERE IS MORE THAN ONE DEVIL. TOO MUCH FOLK LORE HISTORY AND PHYSICAL EVIDENCE TO PROVE OTHERWISE ?

BESIDES, TO THE MAJORITY, `DEVIL` IS ONLY A LABEL, NOT A SPIECES OF `DEMI-gOD`, AS THE UNDERGROUND SOULS AND NON CATHOLIC MONKS MAY PUT IT. SO WHY IS THERE ONLY ONE DEVIL IN OUR BIBLE. A DEVIL THAT IS AN ANGEL NO LESS. FUNNY HUH ? i never figured that one out, so i write to you now.

THAT IS IF YOU EVER MET DEVILS. IN HUMAN SUITES. NO ARGUABULL PROOF ABOUT THE JESUS OR LUCIFER AUTHENTICITIES YET ANYBODY ? :angry2:

SO WHY IS AN ANGEL CALLED A DEVIL. DOES THE BIBLE EXPLAIN WHY LUCIFER IS A DEVIL, PLEASE SOMBODY EDUATE ME SO I CAN JUST SHUT UP.

PERHAPS THE DEVILS HAVE TAKEN OVER THE LUNATIC ASYLUM AND MADE )ONE OF( THE ANGELS OF LIGHT A BAD GUY)S( ?

WHO KNOWS, MAYBE IT WASN'T THE DEVELS BUT THE FALLEN ANGELS WHO PUKED OVER OUR EVOLUTION WITH CONTINUED MENTAL ENSLAVEMENT, DARK LORDS OF THE NIGHT, DEMONS, LIZARDS, SETH, COCO THE CLOWN.....AND LIED TO US THROUGH FALSE AND FORCEFULLY POPULATED DOCTRINES OF PURVERBIAL`TINVISIBLE GOD`

IF ANYBODY GOT ANY RESEARCH ON THIS DEVIL/ANGEL ASPECT OF LUCIFER, PLEASE PM ME.

P.S. THESE SO CALLED AGENT ) AS A PLURAL ( OF LUCIFER HAVE NOT ALLOWED A SINGLE YEAR OF PEACE IN THE MIDDLE EAST SINCE ABRAHAM. THERE IS PROOF ONLINE. IN FACT EVIDENCE ONLINE PROVES THE FACT THAT IT WAS THE CATHOLICS WHO SEALED THE LABLE ON LUCIFER AS THE DEVIL. BECAUSE HISTORICALY, IT WAS OUT OF THE HUNDREDS OF VARIATIONS OF PAGAN WORSHIPING RELIGIONS THAT A GROUP FORMED THE CATHOLS AND THE SAME PROCEDURE WAS PROBABLY MANIPULATED FOR ISLAM. WHERE BOTH RELIGIONS FOR ONCE HOLD A SUPPOSED COMMON ENEMY......DEVILS......()

I ALSO KNOW THAT MEN IN POWER HAVE BEEN KNOWN TO SOMETIMES MAKE THE ODD ERROR IN THE LINE OF DUTY.

ALL I CAN FEEL OF THE NEW TESTAMENT IS THAT JESUS WAS SAYING WHAT LUCIFER IS SUPPOSEDLY DOING.

ONLY PERHAPS SCORES OF CHRISTIANS ACTUALLY DO WORLD WIDE. TOO MANY OMMITIONS AND TOO MUCH DOCTRINE TO ENLIGHTEN THE PHYSICA/MIND AND SPIRIT S THE TRINITY. BUT THE ANSWER IS JUST AROUND THE CORNER. SUPPOSEDLY.

Hi Jet Savage:

I agree with you; I think there is more than one devil too. I believe that just as in the Holy Realm there is a hierarchy of angels, there exists a hierarchy in the Evil Realm as well. Just as the Father of the angels is God, the father of the devils is Satan. He is, as the Bible states, "the father of all lies." Some angels are called devils because they are the fallen angels caused by the war in the heavens. I believe Satan and his devils are very intelligent, cunning, and powerful. In the lower parts of the hierarchy we find demons. I've read several books on demonology and exorcisms, and you can easily see the difference in the way devils operate and the way demons operate.

You're right, Jet. There is ancient text that was purposefully omitted in the Bible by the early Church. It's like they were saying "Oh this one sounds good, let's add this one. Oh this other one sounds too outlandish....let's omit that one." I'm so glad scholars have begun to bring some of this omitted text to the forefront so that the public can read it.

http://ashiana.conforums.com/index.cgi

~ Isis

[seanph]

Satan/Lucifer/Devil ...

Here’s a brief synopsis of The Origins of Satan by Professor Elaine Pagels (Princeton University):

“Pagels charts the evolution of the Jewish and Christian concept of evil from Old Testament times to the present day (although the majority of the book deals with the New Testament era). She explains how ' Satan ' didn't always refer to an evil being but was initially used to represent an obstacle. After that meaning, it evolved into a meaning which was used to unify your group against your enemies/adversaries or 'satan'. The Jews still don't, nor did they ever, believe in or create the Satan/Devil being/creature/character of Christian lore.

It wasn't until New Testament times and later that the concept of an evil being who is actually called 'Satan' or the 'Devil' or ' Lucifer ' evolved. It is interesting to see how these concepts have continued to persist throughout religious and political history with groups stigmatizing others not in their group (whether it be religious, political, racial, etc.) as being 'of the devil'. Dictatorships and other authoritarian organizations always need an external enemy to bind their followers together.”

The Origins of Satan

http://www.amazon.com/Origin-Satan-Elaine-...TF8&s=books

John J. Robinson A Pilgrim's Path, pp. 47-48:

"Lucifer makes his appearance in the fourteenth chapter of the Old Testament book of Isaiah, at the twelfth verse, and nowhere else: "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!"

The first problem is that Lucifer is a Latin name. So how did it find its way into a Hebrew manuscript, written before there was a Roman language? To find the answer, I consulted a scholar at the library of the Hebrew Union College in Cincinnati. What Hebrew name, I asked, was Satan given in this chapter of Isaiah, which describes the angel who fell to become the ruler of hell?

The answer was a surprise. In the original Hebrew text, the fourteenth chapter of Isaiah is not about a fallen angel, but about a fallen Babylonian king, who during his lifetime had persecuted the children of Israel. It contains no mention of Satan, either by name or reference. The Hebrew scholar could only speculate that some early Christian scribes, writing in the Latin tongue used by the Church, had decided for themselves that they wanted the story to be about a fallen angel, a creature not even mentioned in the original Hebrew text, and to whom they gave the name "Lucifer."

Why Lucifer? In Roman astronomy, Lucifer was the name given to the morning star (the star we now know by another Roman name, Venus). The morning star appears in the heavens just before dawn, heralding the rising sun. The name derives from the Latin term lucem ferre, bringer, or bearer, of light." In the Hebrew text the expression used to describe the Babylonian king before his death is Helal, son of Shahar, which can best be translated as "Day star, son of the Dawn." The name evokes the golden glitter of a proud king's dress and court (much as his personal splendor earned for King Louis XIV of France the appellation, "The Sun King").

The scholars authorized by ... King James I to translate the Bible into current English did not use the original Hebrew texts, but used versions translated ... largely by St. Jerome in the fourth century. Jerome had mistranslated the Hebraic metaphor, "Day star, son of the Dawn," as "Lucifer," and over the centuries a metamorphosis took place. Lucifer the morning star became a disobedient angel, cast out of heaven to rule eternally in hell. Theologians, writers, and poets interwove the myth with the doctrine of the Fall, and in Christian tradition Lucifer is now the same as Satan, the Devil, and--ironically--the Prince of Darkness.

So "Lucifer" is nothing more than an ancient Latin name for the morning star, the bringer of light. That can be confusing for Christians who identify Christ himself as the morning star, a term used as a central theme in many Christian sermons. Jesus refers to himself as the morning star in Revelation 22:16: "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star."

And so there are those who do not read beyond the King James version of the Bible, who say 'Lucifer is Satan: so says the Word of God'...."

Kindly,

Sean

Edited December 21, 2006 by seanph

[JET SAVAGE]

Happy Holidays ya'll.

Cadetak47

Yeah I'm angry. I have masons on my back. SO THE STYLE I WRITE FITS THE MOOD.

1 Lead your criticisms only towards your leaders who still lead you into a fearful world not a safe one.

2 TRY SITTING BACK FROM THE SCREEN

3 TRY ASSUMING LESS AND KNOWING MORE

4 Don't try, DO.

Ugly world till you choose what to see or look at.

I like this topic though.. So much to learn, thank you all so much. I hope this helps to remind me that the rabbit hole is supposed to be deep. I will return and comment/argue after digesting it all. Thanks, because I am so confused with ` here say` and `folk lore` and `Official History`.

I thought the Morning Star was the Sun god Sol, not Venus. Maybe Venus is his love or a tempering of the Sun Light upon the earth via who knows what influence Venus may hold. but i only guess.

Edited December 25, 2006 by JET SAVAGE

[JET SAVAGE]

I guess I am attempting to research the politics behind bible history control and religions in general.

Some nice ideas about Lucifer. Actually though I was on about devils.

I once saw a school story book about devils. The book was modern too.

Nothing much on the internet about them. Strange, especially when you compare to a search on Lucifer. Popular belief is in one devil, but all around the world old stories exist of these creatures of the serpent variety that were labeled devils at one point but i am attempting to clarify this with poor success.

The concept of creations just below the angels and just above man in the food chain is rarely shown these days isolating Lucifer even more as a bad guy in religious politics.

The concept of Lucifer is modern by all data in the responses above and do not go far back into history as the current religions have managed to suppress and superseed with their own history's I have learned. Even the Taliban were supressing the females again recently, yet Muslims in Cairo today still populate a pagan goddess temple of old persian Egypt, perhaps in the times just after they finally stole those lands from the then Africans.

I guess the Rabbit hole goes much deeper. I don't believe the hype if our scholars are following knowledge resources from our current currept power bases dedicated to really worshipping, Hmmmm, now let me think who......

What I want to find out is probably described via the Buddhists, who generally feel that if one creature is evil, then all creatures are evil. I only just remember where I first studied about devils. from A buddhist temple years ago.

gods, demi-gods and of course, the demons which are usually painted all over the outside of their temples. I thini I will research there as they seem to at least catagorize these creatures right through the levels up to the so many heavens and what not. Thanks anyway.

[Moondoggy]

The last time I checked the bible consisted of both old and new testaments. How funny that some so called scholars always target the NT as being mythical, but will use the OT for their arguments. But they cannot because there is no one here who can actually read hebrew, so they will use their own "mythological" books to support their own fairy tales. The Nt has just as much weight to argue a point as does the OT. The NT writers forgot more of the origins of Satan than we will know. I think they had had far more credibility than what some people here do not like to admit.

[expo2]

The last time I checked the bible consisted of both old and new testaments. How funny that some so called scholars always target the NT as being mythical, but will use the OT for their arguments. But they cannot because there is no one here who can actually read hebrew, so they will use their own "mythological" books to support their own fairy tales. The Nt has just as much weight to argue a point as does the OT. The NT writers forgot more of the origins of Satan than we will know. I think they had had far more credibility than what some people here do not like to admit.

That is not entirely accurate, why? it was hebrew speaking jews who translated their hebrew text to greek commonly referred to as the Septuagint. Thought perhaps I should claer that up for you.

[WaltFreakinWhitman]

Actually you do know a lot about the modern "Christian Mythology", but this is not what the Bible actually says. Lucifer is not even in the Bible because it is a latin word meaning "morning star". It did not enter Christian theology until hundreds of years after Jesus was crucified, and no Hebrew speaking Jew will acknowledge Satan is Lucifer, because there is no lucifer, this is really a passage about the King of Babylon, and has nothing to do with Satan or fallen angels.........

Thank you for a well written, well informed post. good read

Edited December 26, 2006 by WaltFreakinWhitman

[JET SAVAGE]

Hey, I think I found the golden goose. I think this vieo clears everything they are mixing up about the angel of light and the devil, or a devil called satan.

Tis a video about the creation myth around this solar system. But it is definately difficult for me to debunk. Pity. Thanks for your genourous comments. I am learning heaps here.

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum...showtopic=85127

Edited December 29, 2006 by JET SAVAGE

[Nova Scotia]

The way i always had it figgured (might be wrong ) there is 3 arch angels Gabriel ,Michael ,And Lucifer

Lucifer Was A Caretaker of a Ancient Creation on Planet Earth (maybe even in the dinasour erra) as when he rebelled he had to acend up too heaven . And he rebelled long before creation week .

1/3 of the spiritual Beings was with Satan on earth and he convenced them they could over throw God almighty . Satan was very wise , Good to look at . But he Was full Of Pride . He thought he Could do better then God .

So God after the Rebellion set out to use Satan by making him stay on earth (must go to heaven some as he went in Job) . God knew Satan could out smart man . God knew that eve could be persuuaded .

God wanted to Show man his Wisdom . So he told man not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of Good and evil (law Making) said if we ate of this tree we would die . But God knew Satan could Persuade us to eat of this tree called law making and reject his laws . So God gave us 6000 years (6 days) to do our work , Govern ourselfs with Satans help in 6000 years of mans goverment we will if not stopped distroy all flesh on earth with our wonderfull law making ability . Gods going to set Back and watch us run this earth too distruction bu following Satan and Our own Ideas . So satan is showing us where disobedience leads .

Soon at the point this world would be distroyed God will stop it ,and he Will lock Satan up . The hidden meaning of the Sevenths days rest is the Rest this world will soon get from man and Satan governing it . 1000 years Christ will be king ruling with a rod of iron (strictly) forceing us to obey God stoping us from making our own goverments .

The earth will become wonderfull with Christ ruleing and satan locked up , i suspect it will return to garden of eden status . no wars , no diseases , no crime . All people happy.

After them Days most will agree to leave the tree of the knowledge of good and evil alone (LAW MAKING) most will gladly let God govern after satan and man run this earth to almost complete distruction ............then Christ shows us the Worderfull world of tomorow .

Satan will be released after the 1000 years (so the majority of men can be judged ) and he can go out and make war again even with Christ here .

Only the church is Being judged now they are the kings and priest of tomorow and have to be judged now .

All the rest of man kind is judged in the great white throne judgement . The whole world Accept the real church is Decieved .

truely decieved is not Evil ....... Not being decieved and doing evil Is evil .

Only the Church has been judged so far by christ they help judge the rest later . the ones that make it alot of the real church don't make it .

The truth is Dangerous Knowledge you must keep your hands on the plow turn back your eternity is GONE!

[draconic chronicler]

The last time I checked the bible consisted of both old and new testaments. How funny that some so called scholars always target the NT as being mythical, but will use the OT for their arguments. But they cannot because there is no one here who can actually read hebrew, so they will use their own "mythological" books to support their own fairy tales. The Nt has just as much weight to argue a point as does the OT. The NT writers forgot more of the origins of Satan than we will know. I think they had had far more credibility than what some people here do not like to admit.

Try to use some common sense here moondog. We know Jesus was a pious Jew, and he acknowledged the contemporary Jewish scriptures as Holy Writ.

Then he was crucified and ascended into Heaven. No problems so far.

Then a very strange thing happened. A bunch of converted, pagan Greeks, most of whom quite ignorant of the original Hebrew scriptures, wrote a "New Testament full of pagan blasphemy that contradicts the only scriptures Jesus EVER endorsed.

So we have a book of "Revelations" stolen from Persian Zoroastrianism.

We have Pagan Greek Hades, complete with Pagan Greek God/Demon running it (Apollyon).

We have invisible Greek demons under every rock, that ddidn't seem to bother Moses, or Abraham.

The human, food eating angels of the Old Testament are now invisible spirits (the "good" daemons of Pagan Greece).

In the Old Testament Satan is a "Son of God" and and Obedient servant who God continuously asks for his counsel, and sends him on missions to earth.

The Pagan Greek followers of Jesus, turned this same obedient servant into the enemy of God, yet God allows this "Christian Evil Satan" to make mankind miserable without lifting a finger.

The list goes on and on. Bottom line, the apostles blew it. Jesus was not trying to make a new religion. His pagan followers did. And this is why he never returned. Jesus' mission to the gentiles was a failed experiment. The pagan blasphemy which is modern Christianity proves that only the original "Chosen People" could understand the concept of a monotheism. Obviously the gentiles couldn't. That's why modern Christianity has become a paganized farce of the Judaism practiced by Jesus.

[Nova Scotia]

PAUL WAS A VERY EDUCATED jEW , THAT PROBLY KNEW THE SCRIPTURES AS GOOD AS ANY JEW OF HIS DAY.

the rest of the writers wasn't they jews did they not teach out of the old testament?

The pagans never came into christianity till some imposter took it to rome .

It was a Jewish sect till it went to Rome . Christ lived as a young jewish man to set an exsample that ye must follow his steps so said pauL .

Christ kept hebrew holy days and sabbaths as an Exsample for us to follow

the bull came later

[JET SAVAGE]

Imaging your flock of sheep suddenly deciding to rebell on you, or your goldfish. If god is worth it's salt, it would have known all time, it would have half couphed at the idea of a bunch of sheep overthrowing creation. God missing what happens to reality?

So much the bible is responsible for our spiritual imaginings that nothing makes sense. How are angels going to overthrow heaven....unless God was easy and not so everything as we are being taught.

I have no beliefs really, just a curiosity over how easy it is to brainwash ideas that hold no logic.

If God exists, nothing will get away with an overthrow, so no real war in heaven exists. because God has not left the buiilding.

[Cadetak]

Imaging your flock of sheep suddenly deciding to rebell on you, or your goldfish. If god is worth it's salt, it would have known all time, it would have half couphed at the idea of a bunch of sheep overthrowing creation. God missing what happens to reality?

So much the bible is responsible for our spiritual imaginings that nothing makes sense. How are angels going to overthrow heaven....unless God was easy and not so everything as we are being taught.

I have no beliefs really, just a curiosity over how easy it is to brainwash ideas that hold no logic.

If God exists, nothing will get away with an overthrow, so no real war in heaven exists. because God has not left the buiilding.

There could be a war in heaven if God removed himself from the fight and just allowed it to happen...the war could have bin part of his plan.

God has unlimited power but that doesn't mean he uses it...or for that matter can even use it.

[ND-DAVE]

SORRY TO BURST ANY BUBBLES HERE, BUT I THINK THERE IS MORE THAN ONE DEVIL. TOO MUCH FOLK LORE HISTORY AND PHYSICAL EVIDENCE TO PROVE OTHERWISE ?

BESIDES, TO THE MAJORITY, `DEVIL` IS ONLY A LABEL, NOT A SPIECES OF `DEMI-gOD`, AS THE UNDERGROUND SOULS AND NON CATHOLIC MONKS MAY PUT IT. SO WHY IS THERE ONLY ONE DEVIL IN OUR BIBLE. A DEVIL THAT IS AN ANGEL NO LESS. FUNNY HUH ? i never figured that one out, so i write to you now.

THAT IS IF YOU EVER MET DEVILS. IN HUMAN SUITES. NO ARGUABULL PROOF ABOUT THE JESUS OR LUCIFER AUTHENTICITIES YET ANYBODY ? :angry2:

SO WHY IS AN ANGEL CALLED A DEVIL. DOES THE BIBLE EXPLAIN WHY LUCIFER IS A DEVIL, PLEASE SOMBODY EDUATE ME SO I CAN JUST SHUT UP.

PERHAPS THE DEVILS HAVE TAKEN OVER THE LUNATIC ASYLUM AND MADE )ONE OF( THE ANGELS OF LIGHT A BAD GUY)S( ?

In my understanding Lucifer was the head of the rebelious fallen angels and the first living creation of God. He was held on high as the most beutiful and the most powerful angel. When God created Earth, Lucifer became jealous of it and its inhabitants, especially humans since God created them in his devine image. When Lucifer complained, God simply put him in his place and then he rebelled with all the angels that followed his thoughts on the matter. It is stated that Lucifer took one third of Heaven's angels in his rebellion. Since trying to over throw God is like a drawing jumping out of a peice of paper and killing the artist, Lucifer was instantly thrown from Heaven, to put in term, "I saw Lucifer, angel of light and he fell to the earth from heaven like lighting." So Lucifer was thrown from Heaven and with him all of the rebellious angels and they were cast to the shadow away from the grace of God. So yes there are multiple demons who roam the earth. What makes Satan as he is known to us seem like a single entity is best described in this way. If you were a follower of a powerfull leader wouldn't you use his name to strike fear in your enemies? That is what all the demons of Hell do. It also is used to blind us to the fact that Satan like all single beings created by God can only be in one place at a time. If all demons say they are the devil himself then it casts an illusion that Satan, like God can be everywhere at once and implies that he has just as much power as God which is false! Also going back to what I said earlier, if you were weak wouldn't you portray someone imposing and powerfull. Lets say you were an exorsist and you were casting out a demon from someone. Would you be more fearful if the entity that was possesing that someone said,"I am the devil Satan!" Rather than, "I'm Blah,Blah, the demon."

As I've said in other posts, The demon's main goal is not to torture or kill you but to corrupt and sever your relationship with God. Bottom line is no matter how powerful the demon, be it Satan or Blah,Blah the nobody, you have the highest power on earth given to you by Christ the Lord. So one or one billion demons, it doesn't matter. You have been given power that makes Satan's seem like an ant versus a man. Hope this helps.