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Will We Go Over the Cliff?


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Poll: Over the Cliff? (31 member(s) have cast votes)

Will Obama and the Repubs allow the tax hikes and budget cuts to kick in on Jan 1?

  1. Yes (13 votes [41.94%])

    Percentage of vote: 41.94%

  2. No (9 votes [29.03%])

    Percentage of vote: 29.03%

  3. Don't Care (9 votes [29.03%])

    Percentage of vote: 29.03%

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#46    RavenHawk

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 08:21 AM

View Postjoc, on 08 December 2012 - 04:50 AM, said:

Nonetheless...once the Entitlement Genie is out of the bottle...it cannot be put back in.  
I disagree.  It is possible with political will.  The probability is just very low.  The only way to put the genie back in is for this country to fall as Rome did.  If we donít put it back in then indeed we will fall.

Quote

I'm sick and tired frankly of hearing Republicans this and Democrats that.  George W. Bush was a Republican...he had a Republican House and a Republican Senate.  What did he do?  Spend, spend, spend.  
He also stabilized the economy after 9/11.  GDP was rising, stock market was strong.  We were still riding the Reagan boom.  He dealt with 9/11 and Saddam very well.  Signed very good energy bills.  The invasion of Iraq was textbook and necessary but Phase IV of OP Plan 1003 just didnít exist.  But admittedly, when it came to social issues, he scored very poorly.  Letís not forget the Medicare Drug Prescription Bill.  And above all, he was weak in ringing in the Socialists in Congress.

Quote

What else did he do?  No Child Left Behind...which in reality left all children behind.  
This is definitely a disappointment.  It had great intentions but like all social engineered government projects, they fail.  This is why the DoEd should be terminated or at least reduced to a think tank, etc.  But this is exactly how Obamacare will go too.  You do realize that those that couldnít get care because they couldnít afford their prior condition, still canít afford it now, but now the rest of us canít afford anything just above basic care.  Good job.  The insurance companies will just rake in even more money and provide less.

Quote

What else did he do?  Stirred up a hornets nest and destabilized the entire world.  
Yes, he stirred things up.  They needed to be in order to eradicate it.  It had been like a small hornetís nest in the attic and you know it needs to be cleaned out but you are afraid of getting stung.  So you leave it alone.  In several years, the nest has grown such that its members are threatening your children playing in the yard.  So now you have to risk more stings to get rid of the larger nest.  Thatís what Bush did, but he didnít quite clean out the whole nest.  Now, instead of finishing, weíre back to ignoring the danger.  Just blame the stings on your children on a really bad movie.

Quote

Republicans?  How are they different from the Democrats?  They all lie.  They all cheat.  They all say this and that and then do the other.  Well, I don't have my blinders on anymore.  It isn't the Republicans vs the Democrats and it never has been.  It is Freedom vs Tyranny.
I agree, they all lie and cheat but they still are based in ideology.  Iíd rather have a Constitutionalist lie and cheat rather than a Socialist.  Actually, I rather have neither but the way to deal with that is to vote out the incumbent.  Again, I have to repeat what Mary Matthews (Katharine Hepburn) in ďState of the UnionĒ said: ďYou politicians have stayed professionals only because the voters have remained amateurs.Ē  But this requires a better educated electorate.  But itís difficult when about half the population is Takers.  Ultimately, it is our fault for this.  After all, we deserve the leadership we elect.

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#47    libstaK

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 08:44 AM

I can't help thinking this is the slowest drive over a cliff in history

"I warn you, whoever you are, oh you who wish to probe the arcanes of nature, if you do not find within yourself that which you seek, neither shall you find it outside.
If you ignore the excellencies of your own house, how do you intend to find other excellencies?
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#48    joc

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 12:01 PM

Quote

I disagree.  It is possible with political will.  The probability is just very low.  The only way to put the genie back in is for this country to fall as Rome did.  If we don't put it back in then indeed we will fall.

And I disagree...because there is no political will.  We already ARE falling as Rome did.  ...all the Kings horses and all the Kings men...





Quote

This is definitely a disappointment.  It had great intentions but like all social engineered government projects, they fail.  This is why the DoEd should be terminated or at least reduced to a think tank, etc.  But this is exactly how Obamacare will go too. You do realize that those that couldn't get care because they couldn't afford their prior condition, still can't afford it now, but now the rest of us can't afford anything just above basic care.  Good job.  The insurance companies will just rake in even more money and provide less.

Whip Kick to the face....for saying 'You do realize'...
...I realize everything...


Quote

Yes, he stirred things up.  They needed to be in order to eradicate it.  It had been like a small hornet's nest in the attic and you know it needs to be cleaned out but you are afraid of getting stung.  So you leave it alone.  In several years, the nest has grown such that its members are threatening your children playing in the yard.  So now you have to risk more stings to get rid of the larger nest.  That's what Bush did, but he didn't quite clean out the whole nest.  Now, instead of finishing, we're back to ignoring the danger.  Just blame the stings on your children on a really bad movie.

...it is just plain stupid to spray the huge wasp nest above the door jam and not spray the one right next to it a couple of feet over...that was either just stupid or by design...I don't think Bush is stupid...there wasn't a shock and awe 2 with Iran...see, that would have ended it.  That would have led the way to peace in the Middle East...  But there was a Bush Doctrine...yeah...right...talk is cheap.

Quote

I agree, they all lie and cheat but they still are based in ideology.  I'd rather have a Constitutionalist lie and cheat rather than a Socialist.  Actually, I rather have neither but the way to deal with that is to vote out the incumbent.  Again, I have to repeat what Mary Matthews (Katharine Hepburn) in "State of the Union" said: "You politicians have stayed professionals only because the voters have remained amateurs."  But this requires a better educated electorate.  But it's difficult when about half the population is Takers.  Ultimately, it is our fault for this.  After all, we deserve the leadership we elect.

I don't give a damn what label you where on your lapel...a liar is a liar through and through!  And...once the electorate is fat, stupid, lazy, dumb...and is thoroughly tattooed...(yeah, I went there) ..it's over.

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#49    Mr Right Wing

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 12:03 PM

View Postand then, on 03 December 2012 - 04:26 AM, said:

Considering the damage we are being told that will result from this failure to compromise by the two parties, do you think a deal will be struck or do you think both sides are willing to actually, knowingly allow a double dip recession?

Irans won.

If the oil gets cut off the US economy has so much debt it will collapse. In fact if Iran is intelligent it will strike first.


#50    joc

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 12:10 PM

View PostMr Right Wing, on 08 December 2012 - 12:03 PM, said:

Irans won.

If the oil gets cut off the US economy has so much debt it will collapse. In fact if Iran is intelligent it will strike first.
...ya think?...

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#51    and then

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 01:02 PM

View PostlibstaK, on 08 December 2012 - 08:44 AM, said:

I can't help thinking this is the slowest drive over a cliff in history
All theatre up to this point.  But it's ugly and damaging(and not just to the US) and the credit ratings folks will have no choice but to downgrade us again if they are to be consistent.  That means any savings found in negotiations will be lost in higher interest payments on debt.  I've never seen the leaders of my country more divided and less capable in my lifetime.  Seems that when the last of the adults left the building they forgot to turn off the lights and now we just have a bunch of children playing "politician".

  We've cast the world, we've set the stage,
  for what could be, the darkest age...

#52    Mr Right Wing

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 01:09 PM

View Postand then, on 08 December 2012 - 01:02 PM, said:

All theatre up to this point.  But it's ugly and damaging(and not just to the US) and the credit ratings folks will have no choice but to downgrade us again if they are to be consistent.  That means any savings found in negotiations will be lost in higher interest payments on debt.  I've never seen the leaders of my country more divided and less capable in my lifetime.  Seems that when the last of the adults left the building they forgot to turn off the lights and now we just have a bunch of children playing "politician".

Why hasnt the US started Austerity?


#53    DieChecker

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 01:55 AM

View PostMr Right Wing, on 08 December 2012 - 01:09 PM, said:

Why hasnt the US started Austerity?

Just look at Europe... Austerity is not the answer. It may be part of the answer, but probably should not be the biggest part.

Quote

The North has been engulfed at last by the contractionary holocaust it imposed on the South. French car sales crashed 19pc last month, even before its fiscal shock therapy -- 2pc of GDP next year. The Bundesbank admitted on Friday tore up its forecast on Friday. Germany itself is in recession.


The youth jobless rate has reached 58pc in Greece, 55.8pc in Spain, 39.1pc in Portugal, 36.5pc in Italy, 30.1pc in Slovakia, and 25.5pc in France, with all the known damage this does to the life-trajectory of the victims and the productive dynamism of these economies.
http://www.telegraph...on-deepens.html

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#54    Render

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 11:06 AM

View PostDieChecker, on 10 December 2012 - 01:55 AM, said:

Just look at Europe... Austerity is not the answer. It may be part of the answer, but probably should not be the biggest part.


http://www.telegraph...on-deepens.html

I believe it's not wise to already draw conclusions from the austerity in Europe. The program is in the beginning stages...the results are still out. For the results you'll have to wait until 2014 at the least.


#55    libstaK

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 11:19 AM

View PostRender, on 10 December 2012 - 11:06 AM, said:

I believe it's not wise to already draw conclusions from the austerity in Europe. The program is in the beginning stages...the results are still out. For the results you'll have to wait until 2014 at the least.
And that would make it the world record breaking slowest drive over a cliff in history :P  

Seriously though, I can't picture some USA networks waiting twelve hours before ripping any decision to shreds, what they would do with something that needs a couple of years to mature and see real results does not bare thinking about.

But then, in the end that's all anyone will be thinking about if they ever heave this entropic House of Reps into something resembling action anyway, so predictable :sleepy:

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If you ignore the excellencies of your own house, how do you intend to find other excellencies?
In you is hidden the treasure of treasures, Oh man, know thyself and you shall know the Universe and the Gods."

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#56    RavenHawk

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 02:57 PM

View PostlibstaK, on 10 December 2012 - 11:19 AM, said:

And that would make it the world record breaking slowest drive over a cliff in history :P  
Thatís interesting isnít it?  Or maybe, itís not a cliff after all.  Iíve given 5 reasons why it isnít.

Quote

Seriously though, I can't picture some USA networks waiting twelve hours before ripping any decision to shreds, what they would do with something that needs a couple of years to mature and see real results does not bare thinking about.
Itís called experience.  Having some insight on how things work.  Knowing human nature, etc.

Quote

But then, in the end that's all anyone will be thinking about if they ever heave this entropic House of Reps into something resembling action anyway, so predictable :sleepy:
I would think that the House is performing admirably.  There has to be some remnant of fiscal responsibility left in this government.  As long as they remain an effective thorn in the side of this Socialist in Chief, I have great hope that his true agenda will become more apparent.

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#57    DieChecker

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 06:31 AM

View PostRender, on 10 December 2012 - 11:06 AM, said:

I believe it's not wise to already draw conclusions from the austerity in Europe. The program is in the beginning stages...the results are still out. For the results you'll have to wait until 2014 at the least.

How many Greek bailouts need to happen first? Austerity has been going on for... 2 1/2 years??? That seems like enough time for Something to have started to show progress. But Greece is still in lots of trouble.

I'm not anti-austerity, but don't think it is the whole show.

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#58    Tiggs

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 03:17 PM

View PostMr Right Wing, on 08 December 2012 - 01:09 PM, said:

Why hasnt the US started Austerity?

Because they:

1. Don't currently have a government in power either gullible enough to actually believe in the hypothesis of expansionary fiscal contraction, or one willing to deliberately sabotage the country's economy in order to reduce the size of government.

2. See 1.


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#59    Order66

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 12:46 PM

I saw a "Family Circus" cartoon strip once where they are in a store, and the kid sees an expensive toy castle that she wants. She asks Mom to buy it for her, but Mom says that she doesn't have money to buy iy, so the kid replies, 'It's okay! You can just write a check!'

Congratulations, America, you have your castle. Now just wait for the check to bounce.

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#60    RavenHawk

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 04:11 PM

View PostMr Right Wing, on 08 December 2012 - 12:03 PM, said:

Irans won.

If the oil gets cut off the US economy has so much debt it will collapse. In fact if Iran is intelligent it will strike first.
Donít we get the lionís share of our oil from Canada???

"I don't see one link on this thread providing one shred of evidence for the disgusting jew-hate BS you Zionist liars keep accusing me of." - Yamato
"%&* YOU and your empty suited insults about "racism" you Islamophobic Zionist freak." - Yamato




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