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Look Mama, no diamond saw

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#31    Abramelin

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 04:08 PM

View Postquestionmark, on 03 May 2012 - 03:33 PM, said:

Maybe not where you are, but here all we got is sandstone, lime stone and slate accessible (there probably is some diorite a few hundred feet under ground...

Certainly not here, lol. More than enough clay, though, and gravel and also marl (in the south east).

But I know they make sinks of diorite, so I guess those who make these sinks also have (rough blocks of?) diorite available.

Thinking of it, it would be a great thing for the 'Myth Busters'.


#32    Abramelin

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 04:49 PM

View PostDKO, on 03 May 2012 - 01:38 PM, said:



He makes it look easy.

Yeah, that video (or a better quality of it) has been posted hundreds of times by now.

Here's a better quality one:




What I liked about this guy is that he not only had a nice theory, but also showed us all it wasn't just theory.

Just imagine someone saying, "All this crap about aliens and technologically very advanced civilizations. Just do this and that and so and so, and one man can move a block of stone weighing 10 tons."

All the Hancocks and Von Dänikens and their supporters would jump on him.

But he showed it, hands on.

One of the best videos connected to this topic.

And now we all want (well, I do) a video of someone carving a diorite block with the precision and accuracy the Puma Punku blocks were carved, and only using socalled 'primitive' tools (not made of steel, no use of electricity)

You can bet I will post it on my blog here.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 03 May 2012 - 04:50 PM.


#33    questionmark

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 05:27 PM

Well, who searches finds. While we have no tools from the Puma Punku temple the broader approach, that is checking the whole Tiwanaku culture, yield some interesting results.

Here we have a vitrine containing tools:

Posted Image

Most interesting is the bone saw above the skull and the two drills on the bottom right. Getting warmer....

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#34    Oniomancer

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 05:42 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 03 May 2012 - 12:07 PM, said:

Although I was far from suggesting 'aliens' did it, or that diamond cutters had been used, I'd like to see someone copy those Puma Punku stones using the tools like we see in the video and the pdf you posted.
Remember, there are also multiple other technologies potentially involved here including sawing and drilling and most of those demonstrated don't show the added step of finishing.

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#35    Oniomancer

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 05:48 PM

View Postquestionmark, on 03 May 2012 - 12:22 PM, said:

I like that example because it shows clearly that you can use a softer rock/metal to form a harder one, most won't notice but up there they are using sandstone (Mohs ~0) to form granite (Mohs 2-7).
Small caveat here, sandstone ranges in hardness depending on the binder from soft enough to carve with a nail (seen it done on HGTV's "Extreme Homes")
to essentially solid quartz.

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#36    questionmark

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 05:56 PM

View PostOniomancer, on 03 May 2012 - 05:48 PM, said:

Small caveat here, sandstone ranges in hardness depending on the binder from soft enough to carve with a nail (seen it done on HGTV's "Extreme Homes")
to essentially solid quartz.

Yes and no... The problem here is not the engrained granulation but the binder.

But the secret of using sandstone as a honing tool is precisely the quartz content in the binder, which with a Mohs value of 7 will easily grind down most metals and stones.... not so long ago it was used to sharpen steel:



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#37    jules99

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 06:12 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 03 May 2012 - 11:47 AM, said:

Was he able to get to the precision of the the blocks in the next video?
Hi Abe;
Did you notice the frieze on the sister gate at the end of the clip. At first I thought it looked like worm holes, but not in stone . Maybe aftercarving? because it doent gel with the plain austere look of the rest of the blocks. Or it could simply be an indication of how the frieze was carved, I imagine drawn 1st and then drilled  before being carved or chiseled. I dont know what to make of the worm holes but they do appear to follow the lines in the design in places.


#38    Oniomancer

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 06:37 PM

View Postquestionmark, on 03 May 2012 - 05:56 PM, said:

Yes and no... The problem here is not the engrained granulation but the binder.

But the secret of using sandstone as a honing tool is precisely the quartz content in the binder, which with a Mohs value of 7 will easily grind down most metals and stones.... not so long ago it was used to sharpen steel:
Exactly, and a good grindstone has to have a hardness that's "just right."

http://books.google....dstone"&f=false

Just sayin', your point's correct, it's just probably not _that_ soft.

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#39    Banksy Boy

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 10:03 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 03 May 2012 - 04:49 PM, said:


And now we all want (well, I do) a video of someone carving a diorite block with the precision and accuracy the Puma Punku blocks were carved, and only using socalled 'primitive' tools (not made of steel, no use of electricity)

You can bet I will post it on my blog here.

.

Nail hit squarely on the head. :yes:

Sorry but I fail to see what point if anything has/being be proved here :no: , All that's been shown so far is basic knowledge and skills of a mason.

Now.........show me a perfect hand worked under cut in granite being crafted, show me a perfect inside square cut being crafted, show me perfect hand worked jar being crafted, show me your perfect balancing pot being crafted......then stick that on Youtube. Stuff like the videos on the first page may impress somebody who has no idea, sorry but it doesn't impress me.

http://www.theglobal...es/hrdfact3.php

All it's going to take is one, just one single person to replicate the level of accuracy and complexity and stick the end result on Youtube, using the tools and ONLY the tools that was available to the ancients....how hard a task is this for crying out loud.

Wally proved a point by not being a keyboard warrior and getting off his back side and showing what one man can do with the limited equipment and simple items available to the masons in ancient times. Sorry but nothing he's put on his Youtube video was new to me, masons have known these things for years, in fact many techniques in the video are still used today anyway. There's nothing new here, absolutely nothing. He's shown  what a half decent mason already knows anyway, all he's done is stick it on Youtube and everybody has to go WOOOOOWWWW AMAZING........I despair I really do.

Please......... stop telling me how something was made and show me a video of it being made using the ancient tool box..

Sorry if I sound like I'm getting annoyed but talk just frustrates me.


#40    kmt_sesh

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 10:13 PM

View PostBanksy Boy, on 03 May 2012 - 10:03 PM, said:

Nail hit squarely on the head. :yes:

Sorry but I fail to see what point if anything has/being be proved here :no: , All that's been shown so far is basic knowledge and skills of a mason.

Now.........show me a perfect hand worked under cut in granite being crafted, show me a perfect inside square cut being crafted, show me perfect hand worked jar being crafted, show me your perfect balancing pot being crafted......then stick that on Youtube. Stuff like the videos on the first page may impress somebody who has no idea, sorry but it doesn't impress me.

http://www.theglobal...es/hrdfact3.php

All it's going to take is one, just one single person to replicate the level of accuracy and complexity and stick the end result on Youtube, using the tools and ONLY the tools that was available to the ancients....how hard a task is this for crying out loud.

Wally proved a point by not being a keyboard warrior and getting off his back side and showing what one man can do with the limited equipment and simple items available to the masons in ancient times. Sorry but nothing he's put on his Youtube video was new to me, masons have known these things for years, in fact many techniques in the video are still used today anyway. There's nothing new here, absolutely nothing. He's shown  what a half decent mason already knows anyway, all he's done is stick it on Youtube and everybody has to go WOOOOOWWWW AMAZING........I despair I really do.

Please......... stop telling me how something was made and show me a video of it being made using the ancient tool box..

Sorry if I sound like I'm getting annoyed but talk just frustrates me.

Here's a thought, Bansky Boy. I don't think most of us display chronic astonishment at ancient man's ability to work with all types of stone.

You're the one constantly demanding that someone get out there and prove it can be done. So, why not stop demanding this and do it yourself?

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#41    Abramelin

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 11:34 PM

View Postquestionmark, on 03 May 2012 - 05:27 PM, said:

Well, who searches finds. While we have no tools from the Puma Punku temple the broader approach, that is checking the whole Tiwanaku culture, yield some interesting results.

Here we have a vitrine containing tools:

Posted Image

Most interesting is the bone saw above the skull and the two drills on the bottom right. Getting warmer...


But again,  NO video proving your point.

This is nothing even remotely similar to the Puma Punku stones.

Try harder, please.


#42    Abramelin

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 11:40 PM

The main point here is

You (whoever you are) claim you know how things were done.

Good.

Now show us (video)  how you did it.


#43    Purifier

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 11:42 PM

View PostBanksy Boy, on 03 May 2012 - 10:03 PM, said:




While we're on subject and since Banksy Boy brought up this website link with Chris Dunn's photos, any idea on what specific tool or tools the Egyptians used to make deep straight line cuts in the basalt of this picture?

Attached File  Basalt cuts.jpg   16.68K   26 downloads

I've been looking for a specific tool/saw all over the academic websites as a possible candidate, can't find a reference for the exact tool. Also, in the picture below from the same website Bansky Boy posted, are pictures of stoneware like this one. My question is, how exactly did they get this specific piece so thin and what exact tool or tools did the Egyptians use to produce a quality of stoneware like this?


Attached File  Stoneware.jpg   19.52K   27 downloads


Probably get a better look at the pictures on the website, by the way. The attachments here are a little small compared to ones on the above website link that Banksy Boy posted.

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#44    questionmark

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 02:16 PM

View PostPurifier, on 03 May 2012 - 11:42 PM, said:

While we're on subject and since Banksy Boy brought up this website link with Chris Dunn's photos, any idea on what specific tool or tools the Egyptians used to make deep straight line cuts in the basalt of this picture?

Attachment Basalt cuts.jpg

I've been looking for a specific tool/saw all over the academic websites as a possible candidate, can't find a reference for the exact tool. Also, in the picture below from the same website Bansky Boy posted, are pictures of stoneware like this one. My question is, how exactly did they get this specific piece so thin and what exact tool or tools did the Egyptians use to produce a quality of stoneware like this?


Attachment Stoneware.jpg


Probably get a better look at the pictures on the website, by the way. The attachments here are a little small compared to ones on the above website link that Banksy Boy posted.

The question is: did the ancient Egyptians do it or was it part of a well intended but badly performed "improvement" scheme?

There are many archeological sites that have been "rebuilt" using modern tools/means, there are sites that have been vandalized with modern tools/means. If it is Egyptian it would be a combination of a rock saw and an abrasive (i.e. quartz sand)

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#45    questionmark

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 02:37 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 03 May 2012 - 11:34 PM, said:

But again,  NO video proving your point.

This is nothing even remotely similar to the Puma Punku stones.

Try harder, please.

Wait...musta been aliens...no Atlanteans..no  come on now, you are a little older than that.

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