186 replies to this topic

[Frank Merton]

Br Cornelius, on 26 January 2013 - 02:21 PM, said:

My other point is - there is nothing inevitable about this outcome - in terms of Government. Its just your bad luck that a group of fascists sympathizers embedded themselves into "your" Government.

I always cringe when people start referring to others as fascists when the charge is plainly not true.  It tells me right away the person probably isn't thinking clearly -- either that or is engaging in name-calling propaganda.  There are real fascists in the world, so it behooves us to not cry "wolf" so often.

[Gummug]

Br Cornelius, on 23 January 2013 - 11:14 AM, said:

Markets have their place when they are in line with social needs. There is nothing automatic about this happening. What happens frequently is collective need is manipulated to conform with the output of corportations. This is what happens when corporations become to powerful.
This why we can never do without a Government.

Br Cornelius

So corporations are susceptible to corruption, but governments AREN'T? Please, give me a break....

[Yamato]

Gummug, on 26 January 2013 - 02:39 PM, said:

So corporations are susceptible to corruption, but governments AREN'T? Please, give me a break....

Businesses pay the ultimate price every day.   Government gets away with massive wrongdoing on a regular basis and it answers to nobody.  

Don't mean to sound morbid but maybe if the govt hired him to bury the dead it creates, the smell would eventually change his mind.   Meanwhile, those evil corporations are out there, making money!   How dare they!?  

[Br Cornelius]

Frank Merton, on 26 January 2013 - 02:32 PM, said:

I always cringe when people start referring to others as fascists when the charge is plainly not true.  It tells me right away the person probably isn't thinking clearly -- either that or is engaging in name-calling propaganda.  There are real fascists in the world, so it behooves us to not cry "wolf" so often.

Looking deeply into the history of the Bush family and they have more than a whiff of the fascist about them. I wouldn't withdraw that accusation based upon what they have done and the economic and military agenda they have pushed.

Br Cornelius

[Br Cornelius]

Gummug, on 26 January 2013 - 02:39 PM, said:

So corporations are susceptible to corruption, but governments AREN'T? Please, give me a break....

Did I ever say that - NO I did not.
Governments are at least accountable to their people when election time comes round. The fact that the vast majority of people are to indolent to become actively involved in making that change is not the fault of Government as an instituition.

There is a prevailing anti-government rhetoric abroad in America and its just not healthy or well considered. Government is a necessary evil and it is our duty to make it the least of all possible evils.

Br Cornelius

[Frank Merton]

Br Cornelius, on 26 January 2013 - 03:12 PM, said:

Looking deeply into the history of the Bush family and they have more than a whiff of the fascist about them. I wouldn't withdraw that accusation based upon what they have done and the economic and military agenda they have pushed.

That sort of statement kinda ruins any credibility and makes you look like an extremist.

[Br Cornelius]

Frank Merton, on 26 January 2013 - 03:25 PM, said:

That sort of statement kinda ruins any credibility and makes you look like an extremist.

Do your own research. Look particularly at the Banking ties to the Nazi's and then into operation paperclip which brough a considerable number of Gestapo officers into the for-runner to the CIA). Bush contacts were involved in both and then the Bushes headed up the CIA for much of its early history.  There is a compelling body of evidence that Bush Snr. was involved in the Kennedy assassination. Bush Snr. also had real trouble when his campaign for Presidency was found to be using a network of fascist sympathizers throughout the country.

Don't take my word for any of it - do your own research. If doing your own research doesn't leave you at least a little bit suspicious of their Nazi ties then I will be very surprised.

Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius, 26 January 2013 - 03:38 PM.

[Uncle Sam]

Br Cornelius, on 26 January 2013 - 03:36 PM, said:

Do your own research. Look particularly at the Banking ties to the Nazi's and then into operation paperclip which brough a considerable number of Gestapo officers into the for-runner to the CIA). Bush contacts were involved in both and then the Bushes headed up the CIA for much of its early history.  There is a compelling body of evidence that Bush Snr. was involved in the Kennedy assassination. Bush Snr. also had real trouble when his campaign for Presidency was found to be using a network of fascist sympathizers throughout the country.

Don't take my word for any of it - do your own research. If doing your own research doesn't leave you at least a little bit suspicious of their Nazi ties then I will be very surprised.

Br Cornelius

Project Paperclip brought lots of Nazi scientists over here not S.S. Soldiers or Nazi Soldiers or Nazi Politicians. Most scientists today go along with their government to receive funding for their projects. Not all scientists are good or moral people, there are bad scientists in this world. The government limits what scientists can do and what they are allowed to research. Nazi government gave less restriction to the scientists if they test on Jewish or Undesirable Subjects during World War II. Sadly some of the best contributing factors to science was brought forth through immoral means. In some sense, that isn't going to change as long as there is governments who are arch-enemies of each other or governments much like the Nazi government at the time. Government is the main contributing factor in a lot what scientists research at the time. If you really must know, some of those scientists were doing those research because it was either that or death of a family member or themselves. Must I go in-depth in explaining everything to everyone these days? The ignorance people show is astounding and it just shows our race is getting dumber by the day, we really need to buckle down and stop being so damn judging all the time. I'm not a Nazi Sympathizer, I am more of a realist who tries to understand the choices people make in the past and in my life time.

Edited by Uncle Sam, 26 January 2013 - 11:40 PM.

[Jeremiah65]

lightly, on 24 January 2013 - 01:34 PM, said:

capitalism |ˈkapətlˌizəm|
noun
an economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state.  

   The problem we are seeing is....  these private owners of trade and industry  have become so powerful that  Government has become a means to their ends.  Nearly every governmental  policy and action is on behalf of , or benefits,  the most powerful Capitalists  . Often now,  the economic plan precedes the legislative means to facilitate it's accomplishment .
Power corrupts... Wealth is Power...  In a democratic republic,   Something is needed to balance the power of wealth with the common good.   That should be Our government's role.



*

I agree with some of what you have said here but I see the problem is that the "Government by the people and for the people" has been taken over by the private owners of profit.  Making a lot of money apparently was not good enough, they wanted to limit the abilities of others to do so and control their lives and educational opportunities.  THIS is the real problem that many do not seem to see.

No, it is not ok that most of our representatives are wealthy elitists that are either corporate owners or major stockholders or financially backed by such.  They have absolutely no clue what an average day for an average person is like...never mind those that have to struggle and decide to pay bills, have food or medicine.  That is NOT proper representation by the percentages...period.

Capitalism and true, free markets are not evil...it is what people do with that freedom that is evil.

I am self employed.  I get to work whatever hours I choose to work as long as I meet my deadlines.  I could make more money if I went back to a corporate ball and chain but I value my freedom as much if not more than I do money.  I also get to choose what kind of work I am going to take rather than having a corporate bureaucrat dictate my next assignment.  Anyway, that's sort of off topic but not totally.  I participate in capitalism and free markets.  I receive a bid package for a project.  I look at it and if I feel it is something I would like to do, I put a bid in.  I also know others are going to be bidding on that job so I am forced to look long and hard at my prices in order to be competitive...this is free markets... I can try to demand top dollar all the time and sometimes I might get it because of reputation or demand...I can also throw out a crackhead price and try to undercut my competitors...or I can try to right a reasonable price that will get attention and then negotiate a contract...this is what I normally do.

What we are experiencing today, for the most part, is not true capitalism and free market.  Big money corporations and lobbyist can dominate any particular discipline to the point of appearing to be a monopoly... but are so clever in design and structure as to never have to face that accusation in a court of law...again, for the most part.

Edited by Jeremiah65, 27 January 2013 - 01:02 AM.

[acidhead]

Br Cornelius, on 26 January 2013 - 02:21 PM, said:

My other point is - there is nothing inevitable about this outcome - in terms of Government. Its just your bad luck that a group of fascists sympathizers embedded themselves into "your" Government.

Br Cornelius

Just curious...

Would you include Obama in this fascist group you believe is embedded in the American GOV?

[Frank Merton]

I pointed out how the Fascist rhetoric makes the posts extremist and irrational.  Obviously it had no effect considering the response I got, in effect telling me I don't know anything, so I have to conclude that many of those posting here are simply to be ignored as marginal and of little or no value.

The funny thing is, I am a socialist working and living in a socialist country, and I see this better than Americans.

[acidhead]

Frank Merton, on 27 January 2013 - 06:13 AM, said:

I pointed out how the Fascist rhetoric makes the posts extremist and irrational.  Obviously it had no effect considering the response I got, in effect telling me I don't know anything, so I have to conclude that many of those posting here are simply to be ignored as marginal and of little or no value.

The funny thing is, I am a socialist working and living in a socialist country, and I see this better than Americans.

I'll give you some attention...

Who are you addressing?

[AsteroidX]

Most people tend to refer to Obama as a socialist with Unconstitutional leanings.

[Frank Merton]

acidhead, on 27 January 2013 - 06:22 AM, said:

Who are you addressing?

Since you don't know we can safely assume I wasn't addressing you.

[Frank Merton]

AsteroidX, on 27 January 2013 - 06:24 AM, said:

Most people tend to refer to Obama as a socialist with Unconstitutional leanings.

I don't think calling someone a "socialist" has quite the rhetorical effect as calling someone a "fascist," but it is nevertheless an inaccurate description and therefore diminishes the credibility of the speaker.

(Does anyone understand what I just said: my English is stumbling).