My problem with seeking contact

[RedSquirrel]

Please forgive me if I am wrong here, this is just a thought.

I think that sending messages out wouldn't likely work, even if they hit a planet with intelligent life-forms.

The trouble (in my opinion and I am flexible here) is this: You send out a radio frequency message (just an example), it hits 'Omicron Persei 8' and they don't use radio waves. Contact not established.

You send a radio wave, it hits OP8 and they do receive it. YES! We have sent a message. They don't speak English (or Spanish. etc) and have a different mathematical base system. They get this:

EPPL é MOLVFVSIJSKQS MLO EPPL NUS KãL MLTSJ SKQOFO SJ RLKQFQL RLJ UJF VETF FIESKíCSKF Now, that code there is a real sentence. I will not tell you how to translate it. I will hint that yes, it is a form of code from a language known on earth.

This is more of a hint than the Omicronians will get.

Am I off thinking that this will be a difficulty?

EDIT: I do suppose they understand it as an intelligent message though.

Edited February 26, 2015 by RedSquirrel

[Derek Willis]

Please forgive me if I am wrong here, this is just a thought.

I think that sending messages out wouldn't likely work, even if they hit a planet with intelligent life-forms.

The trouble (in my opinion and I am flexible here) is this: You send out a radio frequency message (just an example), it hits 'Omicron Persei 8' and they don't use radio waves. Contact not established.

You send a radio wave, it hits OP8 and they do receive it. YES! We have sent a message. They don't speak English (or Spanish. etc) and have a different mathematical base system. They get this:

EPPL é MOLVFVSIJSKQS MLO EPPL NUS KãL MLTSJ SKQOFO SJ RLKQFQL RLJ UJF VETF FIESKíCSKF Now, that code there is a real sentence. I will not tell you how to translate it. I will hint that yes, it is a form of code from a language known on earth.

This is more of a hint than the Omicronians will get.

Am I off thinking that this will be a difficulty?

EDIT: I do suppose they understand it as an intelligent message though.

I am sure any ETs with the ability to receive the encoded message will have computers and clever people who can decode the message.

[seeder]

I am sure any ETs with the ability to receive the encoded message will have computers and clever people who can decode the message.

Tesla didnt have computers, he received what he thought was an alien message, and humans were quite intelligent back then, but they couldnt work it out at the time.

Its a HUGE assumption to think that because no-one answers, that it means theres no-one (or no life) there. Not that I believe there is any life within earths radio broadcast distance

.

Edited February 26, 2015 by seeder

[Derek Willis]

Tesla didnt have computers, he received what he thought was an alien message, and humans were quite intelligent back then, but they couldnt work it out at the time.

Its a HUGE assumption to think that because no-one answers, that it means theres no-one (or no life) there. Not that I believe there is any life within earths radio broadcast distance

.

I thought what Tesla received was a series of numbers: one...two...three... etc., which he deduced had been created by an intelligence.

[RedSquirrel]

I am sure any ETs with the ability to receive the encoded message will have computers and clever people who can decode the message.

So with a computer, my message must be easy to decode, no? It is a real message.

[seeder]

I thought what Tesla received was a series of numbers: one...two...three... etc., which he deduced had been created by an intelligence.

It was a pulsar IIRC

[Derek Willis]

So with a computer, my message must be easy to decode, no? It is a real message.

I didn't say it would be easy to decode, but I am sure it could be decoded. I hope at some point you are going to let us know what it says!

It was a pulsar IIRC

I have heard numerous explanations, and I keep an open mind.

[RedSquirrel]

I have every intent, I just find this an interesting area of thought. I figure, it should be easier to decode this than a language or code from an alien life. I'll admit there are only two layers of code here, one proper and one linguistic.

I think the odds of them receiving, recognizing and then being able to decode it are slim. Now I am a limited person, so I may be WAY off.

EDIT: add to the odds that there is even life out there. Not that I think we are alone in our universe, mind you, but that we are functionally alone.

Edited February 26, 2015 by RedSquirrel

[Derek Willis]

I have every intent, I just find this an interesting area of thought. I figure, it should be easier to decode this than a language or code from an alien life. I'll admit there are only two layers of code here, one proper and one linguistic.

I think the odds of them receiving, recognizing and then being able to decode it are slim. Now I am a limited person, so I may be WAY off.

EDIT: add to the odds that there is even life out there. Not that I think we are alone in our universe, mind you, but that we are functionally alone.

I'm not very good with codes, so there is not much point in me trying to decode the message. Does the code have a key? For instance, the information on the Pioneer probes can be decoded using the wavelength of the hyper-fine transition of neutral hydrogen (21 cm). The scientists who prepared the information reckoned that species as advanced as ourselves would understand what the key was.

[RedSquirrel]

Yes, there is a key. I used something that crosses all cultures, faiths, sciences and walks of life. 5 letters.

EDIT: Because the message is meant for humans. Otherwise, I'd have used math (binary).

Edited February 26, 2015 by RedSquirrel

[seeder]

I have every intent, I just find this an interesting area of thought. I figure, it should be easier to decode this than a language or code from an alien life. I'll admit there are only two layers of code here, one proper and one linguistic.

I think the odds of them receiving, recognizing and then being able to decode it are slim. Now I am a limited person, so I may be WAY off.

EDIT: add to the odds that there is even life out there. Not that I think we are alone in our universe, mind you, but that we are functionally alone.

We cannot even understand any animals language on our own planet... let alone aliens. When we can decode whalesong, bird song, the clicks dolphins make.. how insects communicate with chemicals...or the light emitted by certain underwater creatures etc.... then we may....just may... have a chance of understanding anyone else

.

Edited February 26, 2015 by seeder

[RedSquirrel]

That was actually what prompted this idea. I was watching my dog and trying to figure out the subtle cues that she sends out (posture, how the eyes shift or stare, how open the mouth is, the fur and ear movements). I thought to myself "Self, you are a fairly intelligent being, yet you are baffled by a simple dog (yes, she is simple... not like most dogs)... how would an alien of greater intelligence view how we communicate?". That started a few day's worth of thinking. This is a far as I got.

I think that in person, it would be easier to communicate, rather than using radio or theta band M rays or quantum boogaloo disco waves.

[Derek Willis]

Yes, there is a key. I used something that crosses all cultures, faiths, sciences and walks of life. 5 letters.

EDIT: Because the message is meant for humans. Otherwise, I'd have used math (binary).

Which language is the five letter word? English, Spanish, Arabic...?

[RedSquirrel]

The key word is in English.

[Derek Willis]

The key word is in English.

Is it Tesla?

(I know Tesla isn't an English word, but it was the key word used in the movie The Prestige)

Edited February 26, 2015 by Derek Willis

[toast]

So with a computer, my message must be easy to decode, no? It is a real message.

Depends on where the message is tried to get decoded. It is very likely that yr message can be decoded on Earth by a system that knows

all languages that are known on Earth.

But it is unlikely that yr message can be decoded by ETs because it is unlikely that they know all our languages. But even if they would

understand english, would not mean that they understand yr message as, yr message isnt in english and it is not possible to find a logic

in between yr message and what it may say in english as yr message does not contain all letters of the ABC but some signs that are not

common in the english language.

[RedSquirrel]

Toast: Roughly, yes. My main issue is them (the Lifeforms on another planet) even 'listening' for radio, seeing that it is a message, being able to decode the message, understanding the message, etc. In the end, it seems to be an exceedingly long shot. For the point of argument, this thought assumes there is life out there that is equal or greater in technology to us. Heck of an assumption, eh?

DW: Nope. Not Tesla (Though that would have been a cool idea, it wouldn't fit being a human experience).

Edited February 26, 2015 by RedSquirrel

[Derek Willis]

Is the word of a religious nature?

(I was only joking about Tesla)

Edited February 26, 2015 by Derek Willis

[RedSquirrel]

Is the word of a religious nature?

Not that I know of. I tried to find a word that any human could identify and share. Not to be rude, but we won't have the ability to play 20 questions with them to help them decode . Much respect for your curiosity though.

[toast]

For instance, the information on the Pioneer probes can be decoded using the wavelength of the hyper-fine transition of neutral hydrogen

(21 cm). The scientists who prepared the information reckoned that species as advanced as ourselves would understand what the key was.

Stop. We are talking about language here and the Pioneer plaques key has nothing to do with language, just with scientific facts to be visual

identified.

[Derek Willis]

Stop. We are talking about language here and the Pioneer plaques key has nothing to do with language, just with scientific facts to be visual

identified.

I was just using it as an example of how encrypted messages can have a key that can be deduced.

[Derek Willis]

Not that I know of. I tried to find a word that any human could identify and share. Not to be rude, but we won't have the ability to play 20 questions with them to help them decode . Much respect for your curiosity though.

Yes, I could go on like this for ever ... Is the word a flower? ... Is the word a mountain? ... Is the word ...

[toast]

I was just using it as an example of how encrypted messages can have a key that can be deduced.

Polar orbit.

[seeder]

I was just using it as an example of how encrypted messages can have a key that can be deduced.

Fine, but why would attempted contact be encrypted? Whats the point of that?

[Derek Willis]

Polar orbit.

Ha ha!