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Vedic mythology collobarate with science?


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#31    Harsh86_Patel

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 07:35 AM

1)I reassert all the comparison i have made before of modern concepts and concepts mentioned and talked about in the Vedas.There are direct comparisons with implications or concepts used in String theory,Higgs Boson,Mechanical flight etc etc with the concepts in the vedic culture.

2)How do you suggest different cultures evolved in areas thought to geographically isolated?For eg Mayan cultuer and Vedic culture.Please answer since you claim that a culture can develop only by cultural exchange between two different cultures.

3)Your ideas of cultural preservation are childish where you leave no space for a geographically isolated people to have their own new ideas and concepts and the capability to overwite the old beliefs even over a period of 65000 years especially when they didn't have written language or an systematic oral transmission tradition.

4)Contemprary migration theories are supported by baised Linguist and Historians and Ethanographers often having no sort of Archaelogical evidence and by misinterpreting genetic data.Gentic studies can only indicate which existing populations had sexual contact and the approximate time the contact stopped but it in no way can indicate from where the people migrated to which place.Genetic studies cannot attest to the age of a culture.There is no archeological evidence for your Negrotid migration theory and all you can state is that some of these people had sexual contact at some period of time and the migration from Africa to Australia is mere conjecture and and does not have any archeological evidence.

5) "even illiterate people can make fire"-----we are talking about 65000 B.P. not about modern illiterates who can use a lighter or matchstick.Such a lack of imagination.The migratory groups could have been very small populations that could have migrated from any location to any location and could have spawned a culture,there is no way to determine who migrated from where based on present population sizes.Archeological evidence for such migrations are non-existent and this opens up a wide gap for biased linguists and historians to fill and also for stupid linguists and historian to fill (they may have made errors unknowingly).

6) I never gave any statement against South indian culture since it is essentially Vedic,same mythology,same pantheon,same people and same geography and a whole lot of archeological evidence to suggest cultural continuity since millenias.It is people like you who would wan't to differentiate between North Indians and South Indians on basis of imaginary racial lines and non-existant cultural differences.Hindi is not my native language i come from a region in India which has been a port city since antiquity and harbors or harbored people from all sorts of perceived races and cultures present throughout the world called 'Gujurat'.You forget that i do not accept that the Vedic culture was brought by the so called Aryans from central Europe and i believe it to be native and belonging to North/South Indians alike.Vedas do not belong to North Indians but to all Indians and the World.

7)"A monarchy cannot give rise to a welfare state"-----you display a most biased understanding of Monarchy or the concept of a 'King'.This statement is only true when the king is a money grubbing,greedy,supremacist pig.A righteous Hindu king had to insure equitable distribution of wealth and to provide state sponcered fundamental ammenities to all his subjects for him to be called Great.

8)4.7 % of the global population can read the Vedas in original Sanskrit (it is also the hindi speaking population since the scripts are essentially the same).How many European christians can read the bible in original hebrew or greek? Does not knowing the original language of a book decrease the relevance of cultural practices associated with it?.This question is a non-argument and demonstrates your ignorance of what i previously stated.

9)The example you gave of inferring population migrations is a very good example to highlight my doubts of the same.There is no way to determine that the people migrated from Japan to America or America to Japan in the absence of 'archeological evidence' and when such imaginary migrations have supposed to have taken place 65000 years B.P. you can have absolutely no archeological evidence and stating the same is only by assuming that the present population size is retained in the original homeland which is a fallacy.
For eg- if the original population size of negortids was 10000 located in Central Europe and population groups of 1000 migrated to 10 different geographical location then 8 out of the 10 could have died out and 1 of the groups that migrated to Africa might have been favoured by circumstances and multiplied and continued till the present as a major representative of their so called race.It wouldn't mean that where ever in the world you find negrotids you can assume that they came from Africa.(this is a hypothetical example).Finding one random skeleton in a random location cannot be extrapolated to represent the origins of that particular race/species under the pain of being daft.

10)Regarding levels of antimatter and matter in the universe.Any definitive comments on the same can only highlight your arrogance,have you explored the whole Universe?Does it have an end?How can you state that the amount of Matter is more then Anti matter in the universe?(probably it is the case in the part of the Universe which we have observed).

11)Again you try to dismiss ayurveda as magic when there it doesn't claim any supernatural cures,it is a well organised system based on prevention,diagnosis and cure with strict guidelines none of them based on magic.Why would so many people,not only illiterate or economically backward but even educated and from 1st world countries ascribe to Ayurveda in modern times,the reason the system is still alive and decently popular is not because it is ineffective.
Either ways my intent is not to defend Ayurveda or Western medicine but to draw a comparison with the concept of organized medical/healing systems.

12)Everybody can look up in the night but how many times you come across specific information in an ancient text regarding a supposedly geographically seperated culture and which part of the sky they were looking at and for what intentions.

13)Once again you pull out a date of 40000 B.P. for Aboriginal culture right out of nowhere.Please provide some sort of evidence for the date.And pictures painted on cave walls existed throughout the world which can be interpreted by lay modern people even today so cave paintings cannot attest to the age of an existing culture.Man has been painting on walls ever since he evolved or was created.
Even the people in India are ancient and have been in India since millenias though they have had contact with other people,but can this be used to say that the Vedic culture is 100000 years old?

14) In a different era saying a engine is running on '100 horse power' could be termed as lunacy and saying it is '50 elephant power' may be in fashion.

It is you who has shifted the debate instead of evaluating the veracity of the information i have posted and discussing it objectively you have taken the discussion to refutations of Ayurveda and imaginary population migrations.You cannot deny with valid information any of the comparison i made other then by just denying to see the connection followed by a lot of self defeating garbage that has got nothing to do with the original topic.You have linked ancient population migrations to be evidence of the age of present day cultures and demonstrated your ignorance.On the way you have tried to belittle the Vedas and are unwilling to acknowledge that the ancient indians were intellectually advance (you took this statement to be supremacist for some odd reason) and did broach upon complex concepts in antiquity.For eg-the Earth being billions of years old is something that is common knowledge to us at present and wasn't always so.


#32    Clobhair-cean

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 11:06 AM

[quote name='Harsh86_Patel' timestamp='1349854504' post='4494992']
1)I reassert all the comparison i have made before of modern concepts and concepts mentioned and talked about in the Vedas.There are direct comparisons with implications or concepts used in String theory,Higgs Boson,Mechanical flight etc etc with the concepts in the vedic culture.[/quote]

Now you're just making you look like a buffoon. You are going around, pointing at crude drawing of stick figures in the Vedas and claiming that they are just like the Mona Lisa, because both have arms and a head.

But let's just see. Anyone who reads this tread, could you please state how convinced are you by Harsh's assertions?


[quote name='Harsh86_Patel' timestamp='1349854504' post='4494992']
2)How do you suggest different cultures evolved in areas thought to geographically isolated?For eg Mayan cultuer and Vedic culture.Please answer since you claim that a culture can develop only by cultural exchange between two different cultures.[/quote]

How can you state such obvious falsehoods?

Neither of these were geographically isolated cultures. Vedic Civilisation thrived smack in the middle of Northern India, surrounded by hundreds, if not thousands of cultures and the Maya also had numerous neighbours with whom they interacted frequently. Hell, one of their principal deities, Feathered Serpent was made up by the Olmecs or even some earlier culture.

[quote name='Harsh86_Patel' timestamp='1349854504' post='4494992']
3)Your ideas of cultural preservation are childish where you leave no space for a geographically isolated people to have their own new ideas and concepts and the capability to overwite the old beliefs even over a period of 65000 years especially when they didn't have written language or an systematic oral transmission tradition.[/quote]

Primitive cultures, when they have no chance to develop, are known to sustain themselves for extremely long amounts of time, look at the Aboriginal Australians. Of course they evolve their culture, but they don't throw out the old and invent a new one, that only happens through foreign exchange.

Do you have a counterexample? No? Well, thank you very much.

[quote name='Harsh86_Patel' timestamp='1349854504' post='4494992']
4)Contemprary migration theories are supported by baised Linguist and Historians and Ethanographers often having no sort of Archaelogical evidence and by misinterpreting genetic data.Gentic studies can only indicate which existing populations had sexual contact and the approximate time the contact stopped but it in no way can indicate from where the people migrated to which place.Genetic studies cannot attest to the age of a culture.There is no archeological evidence for your Negrotid migration theory and all you can state is that some of these people had sexual contact at some period of time and the migration from Africa to Australia is mere conjecture and and does not have any archeological evidence.[/quote]


Yet another blanket statement that makes every Linguistic, Historic and Ethnographic researcher look like a biased liar and you the sole guardian of truth.

There's really no point in arguing with someone who rejects all evidence that doesn't support his beliefs as "biased" or "stupid". But anyway. Let's look at the Negritos, because you seem to have developed an obsession.

We know that they have traits that link them to both Aboriginal Australians and Africans, and that they are genetically distant from other Asians. We know that Aboriginal Australians arrived to their present-day lands somewhere around 450000 years ago. We know that Africans have always been in Africa, since humans evolved there (Yes, I know, humans were not evolved, because evolution is just another biased lie, but let's just roll with this now). What does this mean? That the Negritos arrived in the first migration wave that colonised Southern Asia and Australia and that they had no contact with modern Asians who came later.

And no, this doesn't mean that they just didn't have sex with Asians even though they could have. People don't work that way, and there are no historical records of any significant contact with the from before the 18th century, even though they were surrounded by people who had a habit of meticulously writing down their history and observations.

[quote name='Harsh86_Patel' timestamp='1349854504' post='4494992']
5) "even illiterate people can make fire"-----we are talking about 65000 B.P. not about modern illiterates who can use a lighter or matchstick.[/quote]


Oh sweet Jesus on a pogo stick! Everyone could light a fire back then, because it was the cornerstone of their survival! It was like opening a tin can! It was probably one of the first things people learned.


[quote name='Harsh86_Patel' timestamp='1349854504' post='4494992']
Such a lack of imagination.The migratory groups could have been very small populations that could have migrated from any location to any location and could have spawned a culture,there is no way to determine who migrated from where based on present population sizes.Archeological evidence for such migrations are non-existent and this opens up a wide gap for biased linguists and historians to fill and also for stupid linguists and historian to fill (they may have made errors unknowingly).[/quote]


It also leaves a wide gap for non-biased linguists, historians and ethnographers to fill, and they are doing a great job. Even though you reject their findings off-hand.




[quote name='Harsh86_Patel' timestamp='1349854504' post='4494992']
6) I never gave any statement against South indian culture since it is essentially Vedic,same mythology,same pantheon,same people and same geography and a whole lot of archeological evidence to suggest cultural continuity since millenias.It is people like you who would wan't to differentiate between North Indians and South Indians on basis of imaginary racial lines and non-existant cultural differences.Hindi is not my native language i come from a region in India which has been a port city since antiquity and harbors or harbored people from all sorts of perceived races and cultures present throughout the world called 'Gujurat'.You forget that i do not accept that the Vedic culture was brought by the so called Aryans from central Europe and i believe it to be native and belonging to North/South Indians alike.Vedas do not belong to North Indians but to all Indians and the World.[/quote]

Then OK, you are just a plain-old North Indian nationalist. You are like the Turkish nationalist who claim that there are no Kurds, only Mountain Turks. And once more, i state that I won't be bogged down in any debate around this topic.

But what a nice little straw-man you have here. Aryans coming from Central Europe? You realise that contemporary Indo-Aryan migration theory states no such thing. It's all in your head. Please read about things instead of making them up.



[quote name='Harsh86_Patel' timestamp='1349854504' post='4494992']
7)"A monarchy cannot give rise to a welfare state"-----you display a most biased understanding of Monarchy or the concept of a 'King'.This statement is only true when the king is a money grubbing,greedy,supremacist pig.A righteous Hindu king had to insure equitable distribution of wealth and to provide state sponcered fundamental ammenities to all his subjects for him to be called Great.[/quote]

Yes, just like pure socialism, that never existed.

If the king distributes the wealth, then it means that he possesses the wealth. In modern welfare states, the State possesses the funds (which it receives through taxation) which it then redistributes among the population. Even if he gives it all away, it still defeats the purpose of equitable distribution, because it is his money and the people are his subjects.

One question: Did the son of a peasant have the same opportunities as the son of a king? Could they both become kings in a direct competition?


[quote name='Harsh86_Patel' timestamp='1349854504' post='4494992']
8)4.7 % of the global population can read the Vedas in original Sanskrit (it is also the hindi speaking population since the scripts are essentially the same).How many European christians can read the bible in original hebrew or greek? Does not knowing the original language of a book decrease the relevance of cultural practices associated with it?.This question is a non-argument and demonstrates your ignorance of what i previously stated.[/quote]

Ha, nice try! English and Croatian scripts are also basically the same, they still can't read each others newspapers. How many people in India can read the Vedas in Sanskrit? Why are you so unwilling to answer?

Probably a few thousand at best. But we are not talking about Europeans (well, you are, but most of what you say makes little sense anyway). We are comparing Aboriginal Australians to Indians.


[quote name='Harsh86_Patel' timestamp='1349854504' post='4494992']
9)The example you gave of inferring population migrations is a very good example to highlight my doubts of the same.There is no way to determine that the people migrated from Japan to America or America to Japan in the absence of 'archeological evidence' and when such imaginary migrations have supposed to have taken place 65000 years B.P. you can have absolutely no archeological evidence and stating the same is only by assuming that the present population size is retained in the original homeland which is a fallacy. For eg- if the original population size of negortids was 10000 located in Central Europe and population groups of 1000 migrated to 10 different geographical location then 8 out of the 10 could have died out and 1 of the groups that migrated to Africa might have been favoured by circumstances and multiplied and continued till the present as a major representative of their so called race.It wouldn't mean that where ever in the world you find negrotids you can assume that they came from Africa.(this is a hypothetical example).Finding one random skeleton in a random location cannot be extrapolated to represent the origins of that particular race/species under the pain of being daft.
[/quote]

We covered this before.

[quote name='Harsh86_Patel' timestamp='1349854504' post='4494992']

10)Regarding levels of antimatter and matter in the universe.Any definitive comments on the same can only highlight your arrogance,have you explored the whole Universe?Does it have an end?How can you state that the amount of Matter is more then Anti matter in the universe?(probably it is the case in the part of the Universe which we have observed).[/quote]

Yes, of course, we're talking about he observable universe.  We can state it, because we've seen in. The asymmetry of matter and antimatter is a well-known fact.



[quote name='Harsh86_Patel' timestamp='1349854504' post='4494992']

11)Again you try to dismiss ayurveda as magic when there it doesn't claim any supernatural cures,it is a well organised system based on prevention,diagnosis and cure with strict guidelines none of them based on magic.Why would so many people,not only illiterate or economically backward but even educated and from 1st world countries ascribe to Ayurveda in modern times,the reason the system is still alive and decently popular is not because it is ineffective.
Either ways my intent is not to defend Ayurveda or Western medicine but to draw a comparison with the concept of organized medical/healing systems.[/quote]


It is magic, because it is based on magical concepts such as the five elements and and three energies that have no bearing tor reality, and it tries to have an effect without having an idea about the underlying cause of disease.

People also ascribe to acupuncture and homeopathy, even though they demonstrably have no medical benefits. That doesn't mean anything. Try to refrain from common logical fallacies, such as this argumentum ad populum, please.

But I'm not debating that it was a concept of medicine. Probably even Neanderthals had concepts of medicine. I'm saying that it is a historical relic that has been far surpassed by evidence-based medicine.


[quote name='Harsh86_Patel' timestamp='1349854504' post='4494992']
12)Everybody can look up in the night but how many times you come across specific information in an ancient text regarding a supposedly geographically seperated culture and which part of the sky they were looking at and for what intentions.[/quote]


You gave me a funny. We are talking about Venus. The second brightest object in the night sky. Would you draw profound conclusions about the visitors of different parts of New York noting the Empire State Building?


[quote name='Harsh86_Patel' timestamp='1349854504' post='4494992']
13)Once again you pull out a date of 40000 B.P. for Aboriginal culture right out of nowhere.Please provide some sort of evidence for the date.And pictures painted on cave walls existed throughout the world which can be interpreted by lay modern people even today so cave paintings cannot attest to the age of an existing culture.Man has been painting on walls ever since he evolved or was created.[/quote]


The paint has been dated to that period. End of story. Now you'll say that dating is useless, but frankly my dear, I don't give a damn.

Cave paintings that have been continuously painted in more or less the same style for tens of thousands of years, that can be interpreted by the people whose ancestors made them can attest to the age of a culture.



[quote name='Harsh86_Patel' timestamp='1349854504' post='4494992']
Even the people in India are ancient and have been in India since millenias though they have had contact with other people,but can this be used to say that the Vedic culture is 100000 years old?[/quote]


No, because there is absolutely no connection between Vedic culture and the people who lived in India 100000 years ago. Nothing. Nada. The oldest traces of Vedic culture are a few thousands years old.


[quote name='Harsh86_Patel' timestamp='1349854504' post='4494992']

14) In a different era saying a engine is running on '100 horse power' could be termed as lunacy and saying it is '50 elephant power' may be in fashion.[/quote]

Yes. But even if they meant "goat power" chariots, that would still have absolutely nothing to do with mechanical flight. Nothing. Show me an airplane. A diagram of an engine. Show me a description that is unambiguously an airplane and not a wooden chariot drawn by animals. You can't.



[quote name='Harsh86_Patel' timestamp='1349854504' post='4494992']
It is you who has shifted the debate instead of evaluating the veracity of the information i have posted and discussing it objectively you have taken the discussion to refutations of Ayurveda and imaginary population migrations.You cannot deny with valid information any of the comparison i made other then by just denying to see the connection followed by a lot of self defeating garbage that has got nothing to do with the original topic.You have linked ancient population migrations to be evidence of the age of present day cultures and demonstrated your ignorance.On the way you have tried to belittle the Vedas and are unwilling to acknowledge that the ancient indians were intellectually advance (you took this statement to be supremacist for some odd reason) and did broach upon complex concepts in antiquity.For eg-the Earth being billions of years old is something that is common knowledge to us at present and wasn't always so.
[/quote]


Lol. Just lol. You truly don't even try to understand what you are reading.


#33    Harte

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 12:05 PM

View PostClobhair-cean, on 10 October 2012 - 11:06 AM, said:

Now you're just making you look like a buffoon. You are going around, pointing at crude drawing of stick figures in the Vedas and claiming that they are just like the Mona Lisa, because both have arms and a head.

But let's just see. Anyone who reads this thread, could you please state how convinced are you by Harsh's assertions?
I have stopped reading it because the posts Harsh makes are inane.
And looooong.

I was lucky to see this question, to tell you the truth.

Harte

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#34    Mr Right Wing

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 12:37 PM

View PostHarsh86_Patel, on 01 October 2012 - 10:29 AM, said:

Few similes i found which stood out quite prominently-

1)Concept of 'Brhman' or an underlying eternal vibration that is manifest in all things in the universe which has 10 directions/dimensions and the String theory.
2)Pantheism and the God particle being the particle that makes up all matter.
3)The 'Dasavatar of Vishnu' and the supposed evolutionary history from life i.e from water to land to human etc.
4)Yoga and Pranayam and Physiotherapy and Breathing techniques.
5)Karma and the philosophy/science of 'cause and effect'.
6)Mechanised flight in Rig Veda and modern mechanised flight.

These concepts are elaborately described in the Vedas and the Puranas and hence cannot be dismissed as attempts of comparison with 'hind sight' alone

Non-duality is the unification of being and non-being -
1. Being is the reality you experience.
2. Non-being are all the possible realities which have been excluded.

In Quantum Physics the unification of being and non-being is called a superposition (multiverse) -
1. Being is the reality you experience.
2. Non-being are all the possible realities which have been excluded.

Pantheism, Buddhism and Taoism are non-duality religions. In each the mind is at the centre of the universe and creates reality by decaying non-duality into its being and non-being parts. Each put their followers through meditative practices to reunify being and non-being back into non-duality.

Dissociation from reality to the point you have no awareness of it results in being and non-being unifying back into non-duality. The aim of meditation is to achieve this state by dissociation through trance - what I call the 'empty mind' state. To have the mental strength to do this a person needs to build up their life-force energy (brahman) -
1. Breathing techniques increase a persons feelings of mental strength.
2. Having sex without orgasm increases a persons feeling of mental strength.
3. Working oneself into a state of ecstasy also does it.
4. Some drugs do it.


#35    Harsh86_Patel

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 12:55 PM

There you go again on a spree of false and stupid statements like:
1.Culture can evolve only with foreign exchange.Lol lol lol.
2.If all cultures can evolve only with foreign interactions then how did the first cultures evolve inorder to interact with each other.
3.You are clearly stating that geographical isolation will cause mental stasis in the population and will take away the ability of the people to come up with a whole new culture/ideas.
4.Your frail attemp of labelling me a north indian nationalist seems even more flimsy then ever,there are quite a few hindu nationalists (not really anything derogatory about the term other then in minds of pseudoseculars and western imperialists and supremacists) and they are distributed in the North and South equally in India.
5.Let people read the thread and be convinced or unconvinced you do not need to call on them they can do that themselves.I believe there are many on UM who can look at it a open minded manner and contribute more coherently.
6.Pure socailism never existed in what time period?Can you deny that it could have existed in prehistory or say before 1 B.C as an index? Pointless falacious blanket statements.Son of a peasant could become a king by a direct challenge or ashvamedha yagna.A king collecting food etc on behalf of his people and distributing it equally is also a welfare state,the king is only incharge or administration and doesn't own everything in his kingdom.
7.Please put up your 'Archeological evidence' for negrotid migration theory,also please put forward gems of Andmananese culture and any attestation of it's date.You have been weaseling out on both requests.
8.Now you shift to "primitive culture" but i will give you that.Since you request me for an example of a "primitive culture" developing from scratch then all primitive cultures were developed from scratch and not by mutual cultural interactions,after which some culture evolved on their own as well as with subsequent cultural exchanges from foreign cultures.Suggesting that a group of isolated small population cannot come up with their own and completely new culture over a period of 65000 years is ludicrous.How do you think primitive cultures first came into existence was it because of the 'globe trotters' interacting with everyone around the world and imparting their culture and learning from others?
Also can you please state the opposite of "primitive"?will it be by any chance "advance"?
9.Your biases and lack of critical thinking is evident when you acknowledge the present Aboriginal culture to be 40000 years old by dating cave paintings but you suggest that the Vedic culture couldn't have been older then few thousand years.There are cave painting from prehistory in India as well and Indians today also can reproduce same sort of cave paintings,Genetics say that people were populating the Indian subcontinent since tens of thousands of years,so why can't you then acknowledge by your own logic that the Vedic culture is 100000 years old.Your reasoning for stating the present aboriginal culture is 40,000 years old is a joke probably their language is only 1000 years old before which they could have been making grunting sounds etc and their present culture is just 500 years old.
10.Why doesn't the UN and world governments ban alternative medicine since it is all quackery and magic according to you?
11.Five elements and 3 energies (you mean body tendencies) are not magic.
12.My astonishment was not with the fact that ancient people could see venus but it was with the fact that Vedas mention the Asuras who live on the opposite side of the world as opposed to the Devas used to follow Venus and the devas used to follow Jupiter.
13.Show me an example of even one horse in the engine of your car and i will fulfill your request.
14.Sanskrit and hindi have the same script and same pronounciation and many words are also the same i knowing Hindi can read Sanskrit and pronounce it perfectly.The question you should be asking is how many people can understand Sanskrit.You answer my question regarding how many Christians can read the Bible in original Hebrew or Greek and does it have any bearing on relevancy of present Christian culture?.There are "millions" of people in India that can read Vedas in Sanskrit and still do especially the priestly Brhamin class,all forms of traditional rituals and there are a hell of lot of traditional rituals in India are still performed in Sanskrit along with Yajna's and Poojas which are done on every auspicious occasions.Hindi is a direct deravative of Sanskrit.Below is a good excerpt from wiki though i am not in complete agreement with the dates provided.


Modern-day India

Influence on vernaculars

Sanskrit's greatest influence, presumably, is that which it exerted on languages of India that grew from its vocabulary and grammatical base; for instance, Hindi is a "Sanskritized register" of the Khariboli dialect. However, all modern Indo-Aryan languages, as well as Munda and Dravidian languages, have borrowed many words either directly from Sanskrit (tatsama words), or indirectly via middle Indo-Aryan languages (tadbhava words).[5] Words originating in Sanskrit are estimated to constitute roughly fifty percent of the vocabulary of modern Indo-Aryan languages,[40] and the literary forms of (Dravidian) Malayalam andKannada.[5] Literary texts in Telugu are lexically Sanskrit or Sanskritized to an enormous extent, perhaps seventy percent or more.[41]

Sanskrit is prized as a storehouse of scripture and as the language of prayers in Hinduism. Like Latin's influence on European languages and Classical Chinese's influence on East Asian languages, Sanskrit has influenced most Indian languages. While vernacular prayer is common, Sanskrit mantras are recited by millions of Hindus, and most temple functions are conducted entirely in Sanskrit, often Vedic in form. Of modern day Indian languages, Nepali, Bengali, Assamese, Konkani and Marathi still retain a largely Sanskrit and Prakrit vocabulary base, while Hindi and Urdu tend to be more heavily weighted with Arabicand Persian influence. The Indian national anthem, Jana Gana Mana, is written in a literary form of Bengali (known as sadhu bhasha); it is Sanskritized to be recognizable but is still archaic to the modern ear. The national song of India, Vande Mataram, which was originally a poem composed by Bankim Chandra Chattopadhyay and taken from his book called 'Anandamath', is in a similarly highly Sanskritized Bengali.Malayalam, Telugu and Kannada also combine a great deal of Sanskrit vocabulary. Sanskrit also has influence on Chinese through Buddhist Sutras. Chinese words like 剎那 chànà (Devanāgarī: क्षण kṣaṇa'instantaneous period of time') were borrowed from Sanskrit.

Revival attempts

Main article: Sanskrit revival

The 1991 and 2001, census of India recorded 49,736 and 14,135 persons, respectively, with Sanskrit as their native language.[1] Since the 1990s, efforts to revive spoken Sanskrit have been increasing. Many organizations like the Samskrta Bharati are conducting Speak Sanskrit workshops to popularize the language. The state of Uttarakhand in India has ruled Sanskrit as its second official language. The CBSE(Central Board of Secondary Education) of India has made Sanskrit a third language (though it is an option for the school to adopt it or not, the other choice being the state's own official language) in the schools it governs. In such schools, learning Sanskrit is an option for grades 5 to 8 (Classes V to VIII). This is true of most schools affiliated to the ICSE board too, especially in those states where the official language isHindi. Sudharma, the only daily newspaper in Sanskrit has been published out of Mysore in India since the year 1970. Since 1974, there has been a short daily news broadcast on state-run All India Radio.

Indian newspapers have published reports about several isolated villages, where, as a result of recent revival attempts, large parts of the population, including children, are learning Sanskrit and are even using it to some extent in everyday communication:
  • Mattur in Karnataka[42]
  • Mohad, District: Narasinhpur, Madhya Pradesh
  • Jhiri, District: Rajgadh, Madhya Pradesh[43]
  • Kaperan, District: Bundi, Rajasthan
  • Khada, District: Banswada, Rajasthan
  • Ganoda, District: Banswada, Rajasthan[44]
  • Bawali, District: Bagapat, Uttar Pradesh
  • Shyamsundarpur, District: Kendujhar, Orissa[45]
Symbolic usage

In the Republic of India, in Nepal and Indonesia, Sanskrit phrases are widely used as mottoes for various educational and social organizations (much as Latin is used by some institutions in the West). Themotto of the Republic is also in Sanskrit.

India
Republic of India 'सत्यमेव जयते' Satyameva Jayate "Truth alone triumphs" Supreme Court of India 'यतो धर्मस्ततो जयः' Yato Dharmastato Jayaha "Whence dharma, thence victory" Goa 'सर्वे भद्राणि पश्यन्तु मा कश्चिद्दुःखभाग्‌भवेत्' Sarve Bhadrāni Paśyantu Mā Kaścid Duhkhabhāg bhavet "May all perceive good, may not anyone attain unhappiness"[46] Life Insurance Corporation of India 'योगक्षेमं वहाम्यहम्', Yogakshemam Vahāmyaham "I shall take care of welfare" (taken from the Bhagavad Gita)[47] Indian Navy 'शं नो वरुणः' Shanno Varuna "May Varuna be peaceful to us" Indian Air Force 'नभःस्पृशं दीप्तम्' Nabhaḥ-Spṛśaṃ Dīptam "Touching the Sky with Glory" (from Bhagavad Gita: XI, Verse 24)[48] Mumbai Police 'सद्रक्षणाय खलनिग्रहणाय' Sadrakshanaaya Khalanigrahanaaya "For protection of the good and control of the wicked" Indian Coast Guard 'वयं रक्षामः' Vayam Rakshāmaha "We protect"[49] All India Radio 'बहुजनहिताय बहुजन‍सुखाय‌' Bahujana-hitāya bahujana-sukhāya "For the benefit of all, for the comfort of all" Rajputana Rifles 'वीरभोग्या वसुन्धरा' Veerabhogya Vasundhara "The earth is fit to be ruled by the brave"
Other countries
Nepal 'जननी जन्मभूमिश्च स्वर्गादपि गरीयसी' Janani Janmabhūmisca Svargādapi garīyasi "Mother and motherland are greater than heaven" Indonesian Navy 'जलेष्वेव जयामहे' Jalesveva Jayamahe "On the sea we are victorious" Aceh Province 'पञ्चचित' Pancacita "Five Goals"
Many of the post–Independence educational institutions of national importance in India and Sri Lanka have Sanskrit mottoes. For a fuller list of such educational institutions, see List of educational institutions which have Sanskrit phrases as their mottoes.

Interaction with other languages

Further information: Silk Road transmission of Buddhism, Hinduism in Southeast Asia, Indianized kingdom, and Sanskritisation

Sanskrit and related languages have also influenced their Sino-Tibetan-speaking neighbors to the north through the spread of Buddhist texts in translation.[50] Buddhism was spread to China by Mahayanistmissionaries sent by Emperor Ashoka mostly through translations of Buddhist Hybrid Sanskrit and Classical Sanskrit texts, and many terms were transliterated directly and added to the Chinese vocabulary. (Although Buddhist Hybrid Sanskrit is not Sanskrit, properly speaking, its grammar and vocabulary are substantially the same, both because of genetic relationship, and because of conscious implementation of Pāṇinian standardizations on the part of composers. Buddhist texts composed in Sanskrit proper were primarily found in philosophical schools like the Madhyamaka.) The situation in Tibet is similar; many Sanskrit texts survive only in Tibetan translation (in the Tanjur).

In Southeast Asia, languages such as Thai and Lao contain many loan words from Sanskrit, as do Khmer, Vietnamese to a lesser extent, through Sinified hybrid Sanskrit. For example, in Thai, the Rāvana—the emperor of Sri Lanka is called 'Thosakanth' which is a derivation of his Sanskrit name 'Dashakanth' ("of ten necks").

Many Sanskrit loanwords are also found in Austronesian languages, such as Javanese particularly the old form from which nearly half the vocabulary is derived from the language.[51][52] Other Austronesian languages, such as traditional Malay, modern Indonesian, also derive much of their vocabulary from Sanskrit, albeit to a lesser extent, with a large proportion of words being derived from Arabic. Similarly,Philippine languages such as Tagalog have many Sanskrit loanwords, although more are derived from Spanish.

A Sanskrit loanword encountered in many Southeast Asian languages is the word bhāṣā, or spoken language, which is used to mean language in general, for example bahasa in Malay, Indonesian and Tausug,basa in Javanese, Sundanese, and Balinese, phasa in Thai and Lao, bhasa in Burmese, and 'phiesa in Khmer.

Usage in modern times

See also: Sanskrit in the West

Many of India's and Nepal's scientific and administrative terms are named in Sanskrit, as a counterpart of the western practice of naming scientific developments in Latin or Greek.[citation needed] The Indian guided missile program that was commenced in 1983 by DRDO has named the five missiles (ballistic and others) that it has developed as Prithvi, Agni, Akash, Nag and Trishul. India's first modern fighter aircraftis named HAL Tejas.

Recital of Sanskrit shlokas as background chorus in films, television advertisements and as slogans for corporate organizations has become a trend. The opera Satyagraha by Philip Glass uses texts from theBhagavad Gita, sung in the original Sanskrit.

Recently, Sanskrit also made an appearance in Western pop music in two recordings by Madonna. One, "Shanti/Ashtangi", from the 1998 album Ray of Light, is the traditional Ashtanga Vinyasa Yoga chant referenced above set to music. The second, "Cyber-raga", released in 2000 as a B-side to Madonna's album Music, is a Sanskrit-language ode of devotion to a higher power and a wish for peace on earth. The climactic battle theme of The Matrix Revolutions features a choir singing a Sanskrit prayer from the Brihadaranyaka Upanishad in the closing titles of the movie. Composer John Williams featured choirs singing in Sanskrit for Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom[53] and in Star Wars Episode I: The Phantom Menace.[citation needed]

The Sky1 version of the title sequence in season one of Battlestar Galactica 2004 features the Gayatri Mantra, taken from the Rig Veda (3.62.10). The composition was written by miniseries composer Richard Gibbs.

Sanskrit has also seen a significant revival in China. Musicians such as Sa Dingding have written pop songs in Sanskrit.[54]

Computational linguistics

There have been suggestions to use Sanskrit as a metalanguage for knowledge representation in e.g. machine translation, and other areas of natural language processing because of its relatively high regular structure.[55] This is due to Classical Sanskrit being a regularized, prescriptivist form abstracted from the much more complex and richer Vedic Sanskrit. This leveling of the grammar of Classical Sanskrit began during the Brahmana phase, and had not yet completed by the time of Pāṇini, when the language had fallen out of popular use.[citation needed].



I hope i have addressed your issue of people who can read Vedas in Sanskrit now even if you don't know Sanskrit you can still read the Vedas in a variety of different languages
And translations made by traditional Indians are more accurate then Translations made by Foreigners.Now can we focus on the content.


#36    Harsh86_Patel

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 01:05 PM

View PostMr Right Wing, on 10 October 2012 - 12:37 PM, said:

Non-duality is the unification of being and non-being -
1. Being is the reality you experience.
2. Non-being are all the possible realities which have been excluded.

In Quantum Physics the unification of being and non-being is called a superposition (multiverse) -
1. Being is the reality you experience.
2. Non-being are all the possible realities which have been excluded.

Pantheism, Buddhism and Taoism are non-duality religions. In each the mind is at the centre of the universe and creates reality by decaying non-duality into its being and non-being parts. Each put their followers through meditative practices to reunify being and non-being back into non-duality.

Dissociation from reality to the point you have no awareness of it results in being and non-being unifying back into non-duality. The aim of meditation is to achieve this state by dissociation through trance - what I call the 'empty mind' state. To have the mental strength to do this a person needs to build up their life-force energy (brahman) -
1. Breathing techniques increase a persons feelings of mental strength.
2. Having sex without orgasm increases a persons feeling of mental strength.
3. Working oneself into a state of ecstasy also does it.
4. Some drugs do it.
To have mental strength get inspiration and inner peace a person needs to experince his oneness with Brhman. Life force is often linked to Chi or Kundalini.
Buddhism is a form of hinduism which is inspired from the concept of 'Nirguna Brhmana' i.e worshipping through meditation and/or persuit of knowledge to reach a state of enlightenment and acheive Mukti (ultimate liberation).Nirguna brhman does not require the follower to worship Idols or do yajnas and poojas and was a way of worship meant for the intellectual since it does not give any physical qualitites to God or asks any rituals to be performed or followed.


#37    Harsh86_Patel

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 01:07 PM

View PostHarte, on 10 October 2012 - 12:05 PM, said:

I have stopped reading it because the posts Harsh makes are inane.
And looooong.

I was lucky to see this question, to tell you the truth.

Harte
You were lucky to spot the sentence you highlighted in the short posts made by my friend here.Though nothing much in these long posts regarding the topic so you didn't miss anything special.


#38    Mr Right Wing

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 01:21 PM

View PostHarsh86_Patel, on 10 October 2012 - 01:05 PM, said:

To have mental strength get inspiration and inner peace a person needs to experince his oneness with Brhman. Life force is often linked to Chi or Kundalini.
Buddhism is a form of hinduism which is inspired from the concept of 'Nirguna Brhmana' i.e worshipping through meditation and/or persuit of knowledge to reach a state of enlightenment and acheive Mukti (ultimate liberation).Nirguna brhman does not require the follower to worship Idols or do yajnas and poojas and was a way of worship meant for the intellectual since it does not give any physical qualitites to God or asks any rituals to be performed or followed.

My understanding is that non-duality is all there is. In such a state where everything possible has unified into oneness there is no room for a seperate 'God being' to exist or even a seperate self. Such concepts are illusions based on a belief that only the being part of non-duality is real.

We dont have Chi or Kundalini in the West we have a concept we call life-force energy. Our medieval alchemy was about increasing a persons life-force energy and it involved some strange practices based on non-duality -
1. Breathing exercises increase it.
2. Urination, menstration, excrement and bleeding reduce it.
3. Drinking your morning golden coloured urine prevents this loss (this was the foundation of the Golden Dawn movement).
4. Our legends of vamparism come from blood drinking to increase ones life-force energy.
5. Other bizarre rituals revolving around menstration and excrement.


#39    Clobhair-cean

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 01:30 PM

View PostHarsh86_Patel, on 10 October 2012 - 12:55 PM, said:

There you go again on a spree of false and stupid statements like:
1.Culture can evolve only with foreign exchange.Lol lol lol.

Prove me wrong.

View PostHarsh86_Patel, on 10 October 2012 - 12:55 PM, said:

2.If all cultures can evolve only with foreign interactions then how did the first cultures evolve inorder to interact with each other.

The first tribal systems grew and evolved through constant interactions with other tribes.


View PostHarsh86_Patel, on 10 October 2012 - 12:55 PM, said:

3.You are clearly stating that geographical isolation will cause mental stasis in the population and will take away the ability of the people to come up with a whole new culture/ideas.

Geographic, linguistic and cultural isolation and the lack of ability to develop (no plants, animals, lands for agriculture) is the best way to conserve culture. It's not a mental stasis.


View PostHarsh86_Patel, on 10 October 2012 - 12:55 PM, said:

4.Your frail attemp of labelling me a north indian nationalist seems even more flimsy then ever,there are quite a few hindu nationalists (not really anything derogatory about the term other then in minds of pseudoseculars and western imperialists and supremacists) and they are distributed in the North and South equally in India.

There is no such thing as a Hindu Nationalist, as Hindu is not a nation but a religion. And I never said anything about Hindus, no idea why you keep bringing it up.


View PostHarsh86_Patel, on 10 October 2012 - 12:55 PM, said:

6.Pure socailism never existed in what time period?Can you deny that it could have existed in prehistory or say before 1 B.C as an index? Pointless falacious blanket statements.Son of a peasant could become a king by a direct challenge or ashvamedha yagna.A king collecting food etc on behalf of his people and distributing it equally is also a welfare state,the king is only incharge or administration and doesn't own everything in his kingdom.

In any time period. Socialism is a 19th century concept and it can not be applied to previous economic and social establishments.

Asmvamedha yagna is not a challenge, but a ritual sacrifice of a horse conducted by the king. Try again.



View PostHarsh86_Patel, on 10 October 2012 - 12:55 PM, said:

7.Please put up your 'Archeological evidence' for negrotid migration theory,also please put forward gems of Andmananese culture and any attestation of it's date.You have been weaseling out on both requests.

I have no archaeological evidence. But I have presented ample genetic and linguistic data, which is fine for contemporary scientist, but not you. Tough luck.



View PostHarsh86_Patel, on 10 October 2012 - 12:55 PM, said:

8.Now you shift to "primitive culture" but i will give you that.Since you request me for an example of a "primitive culture" developing from scratch then all primitive cultures were developed from scratch and not by mutual cultural interactions,after which some culture evolved on their own as well as with subsequent cultural exchanges from foreign cultures.Suggesting that a group of isolated small population cannot come up with their own and completely new culture over a period of 65000 years is ludicrous.How do you think primitive cultures first came into existence was it because of the 'globe trotters' interacting with everyone around the world and imparting their culture and learning from others?

Yes, cultures evolved through constant interactions with their neighbours.


View PostHarsh86_Patel, on 10 October 2012 - 12:55 PM, said:

Also can you please state the opposite of "primitive"?will it be by any chance "advance"?

I see where you are going, but twisting language is the lowest form of rhetoric.


View PostHarsh86_Patel, on 10 October 2012 - 12:55 PM, said:

9.Your biases and lack of critical thinking is evident when you acknowledge the present Aboriginal culture to be 40000 years old by dating cave paintings but you suggest that the Vedic culture couldn't have been older then few thousand years.There are cave painting from prehistory in India as well and Indians today also can reproduce same sort of cave paintings,Genetics say that people were populating the Indian subcontinent since tens of thousands of years,so why can't you then acknowledge by your own logic that the Vedic culture is 100000 years old.Your reasoning for stating the present aboriginal culture is 40,000 years old is a joke probably their language is only 1000 years old before which they could have been making grunting sounds etc and their present culture is just 500 years old.

Is there a demonstrable connection between Vedic culture and the cave paintings? No. Is there a demonstrable connection between the cave paintings and contemporary Australian Aboriginal culture? Yes. Case closed.

I can't acknowledge it, because there is no reason to believe that Vedic culture is older than a few thousand years. There is no evidence to back up this statement.


View PostHarsh86_Patel, on 10 October 2012 - 12:55 PM, said:

10.Why doesn't the UN and world governments ban alternative medicine since it is all quackery and magic according to you?

Why the hell would they? They don't even have the authority to do that, let alone the motive.


View PostHarsh86_Patel, on 10 October 2012 - 12:55 PM, said:

11.Five elements and 3 energies (you mean body tendencies) are not magic.

Well, it sure isn't reality.


View PostHarsh86_Patel, on 10 October 2012 - 12:55 PM, said:

12.My astonishment was not with the fact that ancient people could see venus but it was with the fact that Vedas mention the Asuras who live on the opposite side of the world as opposed to the Devas used to follow Venus and the devas used to follow Jupiter.

No they don't. The Asuras are also in constant warfare with the Devas, their brothers. Are you suggesting that the Vedic people were in constant warfare with the Maya? You are a funny guy.


View PostHarsh86_Patel, on 10 October 2012 - 12:55 PM, said:

13.Show me an example of even one horse in the engine of your car and i will fulfill your request.

I have no car and this request is stupid.


View PostHarsh86_Patel, on 10 October 2012 - 12:55 PM, said:

14.Sanskrit and hindi have the same script and same pronounciation and many words are also the same i knowing Hindi can read Sanskrit and pronounce it perfectly.The question you should be asking is how many people can understand Sanskrit.You answer my question regarding how many Christians can read the Bible in original Hebrew or Greek and does it have any bearing on relevancy of present Christian culture?.There are "millions" of people in India that can read Vedas in Sanskrit and still do especially the priestly Brhamin class,all forms of traditional rituals and there are a hell of lot of traditional rituals in India are still performed in Sanskrit along with Yajna's and Poojas which are done on every auspicious occasions.Hindi is a direct deravative of Sanskrit.Below is a good excerpt from wiki though i am not in complete agreement with the dates provided.

Heh, none of this wall of text features the number I asked for: how many people can read the Vedas in Sanskrit. It is highly entertaining to watch you fail.

English is the descendant of Old English, just like Hindi comes from Sanskrit.

You speak English, can you, without google or a dictionary, tell me what this means:

"Hwæt. We Gardena in geardagum,
þeodcyninga, þrym gefrunon,

hu ða æþelingas ellen fremedon."



#40    Harsh86_Patel

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 01:37 PM

View PostMr Right Wing, on 10 October 2012 - 01:21 PM, said:

My understanding is that non-duality is all there is. In such a state where everything possible has unified into oneness there is no room for a seperate 'God being' to exist or even a seperate self. Such concepts are illusions based on a belief that only the being part of non-duality is real.

We dont have Chi or Kundalini in the West we have a concept we call life-force energy. Our medieval alchemy was about increasing a persons life-force energy and it involved some strange practices based on non-duality -
1. Breathing exercises increase it.
2. Urination, menstration, excrement and bleeding reduce it.
3. Drinking your morning golden coloured urine prevents this loss (this was the foundation of the Golden Dawn movement).
4. Our legends of vamparism come from blood drinking to increase ones life-force energy.
5. Other bizarre rituals revolving around menstration and excrement.
i agree with your ideas on non-duality with a few modifiers.Here is a good conversation that happened between Einstein and Rabindranth Tagore.Tagore highlights the essential hindu concept of God (which is not necessarily a seperate being).
http://www.brainpick...ein-met-tagore/


#41    Mr Right Wing

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 01:45 PM

View PostHarsh86_Patel, on 10 October 2012 - 01:37 PM, said:

i agree with your ideas on non-duality with a few modifiers.Here is a good conversation that happened between Einstein and Rabindranth Tagore.Tagore highlights the essential hindu concept of God (which is not necessarily a seperate being).
http://www.brainpick...ein-met-tagore/

Thanks heres one you might like -



Acquiring information creates reality. You need a mind to acquire information. Hence there is no objective material reality only a mind gaining information.

The process of gaining information results in the illusions of being instead of the truth of non-duality (superposition).

Edited by Mr Right Wing, 10 October 2012 - 01:48 PM.


#42    Harsh86_Patel

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 01:57 PM

View PostClobhair-cean, on 10 October 2012 - 01:30 PM, said:

Prove me wrong.



The first tribal systems grew and evolved through constant interactions with other tribes.




Geographic, linguistic and cultural isolation and the lack of ability to develop (no plants, animals, lands for agriculture) is the best way to conserve culture. It's not a mental stasis.




There is no such thing as a Hindu Nationalist, as Hindu is not a nation but a religion. And I never said anything about Hindus, no idea why you keep bringing it up.




In any time period. Socialism is a 19th century concept and it can not be applied to previous economic and social establishments.

Asmvamedha yagna is not a challenge, but a ritual sacrifice of a horse conducted by the king. Try again.





I have no archaeological evidence. But I have presented ample genetic and linguistic data, which is fine for contemporary scientist, but not you. Tough luck.





Yes, cultures evolved through constant interactions with their neighbours.




I see where you are going, but twisting language is the lowest form of rhetoric.




Is there a demonstrable connection between Vedic culture and the cave paintings? No. Is there a demonstrable connection between the cave paintings and contemporary Australian Aboriginal culture? Yes. Case closed.

I can't acknowledge it, because there is no reason to believe that Vedic culture is older than a few thousand years. There is no evidence to back up this statement.




Why the hell would they? They don't even have the authority to do that, let alone the motive.




Well, it sure isn't reality.




No they don't. The Asuras are also in constant warfare with the Devas, their brothers. Are you suggesting that the Vedic people were in constant warfare with the Maya? You are a funny guy.




I have no car and this request is stupid.




Heh, none of this wall of text features the number I asked for: how many people can read the Vedas in Sanskrit. It is highly entertaining to watch you fail.

English is the descendant of Old English, just like Hindi comes from Sanskrit.

You speak English, can you, without google or a dictionary, tell me what this means:

"Hwæt. We Gardena in geardagum,
þeodcyninga, þrym gefrunon,
hu ða æþelingas ellen fremedon."
1."First tribal system grew with interactions with other tribes". Clearly first doesn't have any meaning to you.Was talking of the first culture not interacting groups of tribals which would still be limited to a geographical extent.I never suggested that an entire culture is created by one person,obviously it is based on interactions between a group of people.You are already wrong in what you assert that a culture cannot evolve by itself in a group of of people.
2. I thought culture was based on the thought process and not on lack of ability to develop materially.Lack of ability to develop(plants,animals,agriculture etc) leads to degeneration of intellectual processes and hence lack of culture not to preservation of culture.
3.Socialism is a 19th century concept lol XD.Probaly the word "Socialism" was coined in 19th century.You brought up socialism i was talking about welfare state.In the ashwamedha yagna if any individual blocks the path of the horse then it is a challenge to the rule of the king and the king has to fight the challenger.The yagna was done to establish the authority of the King's positon and to give a chance to the naysayers to challenge the kings rule from any part of his kingdom.
4.You acknowledge the lack of archeological evidence for your migration theory is a good step in the direction of being intellectually honest,All that remains in the absence of archeological evidence is that we can conclusively say that these two population were interacting sexually till a certain period of time and there is no real way of determining which people migrated from where.The linguist and historians can coloberate with each other and decide their truths in the absence of any real evidence (they can blow each other till the end of eternity).

will continue tommorow


#43    Clobhair-cean

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 03:16 PM

Nah, don't bother, based on this last piece of nonsense, I think this discussion has hit diminishing returns when it comes to funniness. I got bored.

If anyone wants to take up my mantle, go ahead, I'm sure you can coax a lot of new and entertaining nonsense out of Harsh.

Edited by Clobhair-cean, 10 October 2012 - 03:20 PM.


#44    Tutankhaten-pasheri

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 06:33 PM

View PostClobhair-cean, on 10 October 2012 - 03:16 PM, said:

Nah, don't bother, based on this last piece of nonsense, I think this discussion has hit diminishing returns when it comes to funniness. I got bored.

If anyone wants to take up my mantle, go ahead, I'm sure you can coax a lot of new and entertaining nonsense out of Harsh.

And the translation of this before you go, and we all go mad not being able translate :)
"Hwæt. We Gardena in geardagum,
þeodcyninga, þrym gefrunon,
hu ða æþelingas ellen fremedon."


#45    Clobhair-cean

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 09:43 PM

The literal translation is

"What. We Spear-danes in days of yore,
tribe-kings, glory heard
how those nobles did great deeds"

Seamus Heaney, whose version is I think the best, transliterated it like this:

"So. The Spear-danes in days gone by
and the kings who ruled them had courage and greatness.
We have heard of those princes' heroic campaigns."

These are the first three lines of the epic Beowulf, the most complete poetic work known in Old English.





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