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Demons, what are they?

fallen angels demons angels

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#106    Jor-el

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 10:34 PM

View Postdanielost, on 29 March 2013 - 08:56 PM, said:

The stars are angels, the third become demons. The angel of light is satan.

Yes, danielost, I know that is what most people think, but is there any place in the bible, any place at all that connects the two? We are making assumptions here when the bible never once tells us that this is the case.

Yes there are fallen angels, These are the stars you mentioned, but nowhere, nowhere at all are fallen angels called demons, not even close, as a matter of fact they are always referred to as angels one way or the other.

There is not one verse in the entire bible that calls fallen angels, demons.

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#107    Jor-el

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 10:40 PM

View PostAtentutankh-pasheri, on 29 March 2013 - 09:23 PM, said:

That depends on definition of a demon. This will vary between people and religions. To me, what most would call a demon is simply another form of life. It is not any demi-god or creature of some devil, it lives in the shadow world between this and the other places. It is not evil or good, it simply exists. It has powers, and can use these for whatever purposes it desires. Generally it could be said to be amoral towards us. Imps and elves are what you may call a demon, but I know they are simply other. As for demons in another sense, in the destructive sense, then to me demons are from us, within us, the primeaval side of humanity. And I will be clear and say such demons are not from any god or gods, but are the dark side of humanity. We need no real demons as we have more than sufficient  capacity for any evil. The 20th century is evidence of that

And what do you mean by the "shadow world", are you referring to a spirtual realm, a higher dimension or are you referring to something else?

See, I'm trying to understand your view here but for that I also have to understand some things, like the terms you use and take for granted.

In your view what are imps and elves? This is alogical question because anybody whos read Lord of the Rings will have a preconcieved idea of what you have said and I am trying to avoid that.

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#108    danielost

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 12:22 AM

View PostJor-el, on 29 March 2013 - 10:34 PM, said:



Yes, danielost, I know that is what most people think, but is there any place in the bible, any place at all that connects the two? We are making assumptions here when the bible never once tells us that this is the case.

Yes there are fallen angels, These are the stars you mentioned, but nowhere, nowhere at all are fallen angels called demons, not even close, as a matter of fact they are always referred to as angels one way or the other.

There is not one verse in the entire bible that calls fallen angels, demons.

You and me andf everyone else on earth were  type of angels.

I am a mormon.  If I don't use mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the mormon faith. Thank for careing and if you don't peace be with you.

#109    markprice

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 01:07 AM

View PostWoIverine, on 29 March 2013 - 09:05 PM, said:

It doesn't matter what demons are, whether extraterrestrial or not. God gave us power, and authority over them as well as the angels themselves.

So you have power over angels. Make one manifest before your next post, so that it will be Divinely inspired, then send it to me to translate the ancient language (you can't possibly understand) so only I can read it, thanks.



View Postgoodconversations, on 29 March 2013 - 09:06 PM, said:

Not necessarily. Dimensions may exist but without demons.. or maybe we exist on multiple dimensions and demons continue to be parts of us but on a different dimension than this one..i'm actually open to all explanations because i can't choose one single explanation as the explanation.. i just happen to prefer thinking of them as parts of us because to me this can accommodate the other explanations i heard one way or the other...

You can't really limit other dimensions to reflect your own comfort zone. I think that's how most horror movies begin: everything seems great...then what the hell is that!


View PostAtentutankh-pasheri, on 29 March 2013 - 09:23 PM, said:

That depends on definition of a demon. This will vary between people and religions. To me, what most would call a demon is simply another form of life. It is not any demi-god or creature of some devil, it lives in the shadow world between this and the other places. It is not evil or good, it simply exists. It has powers, and can use these for whatever purposes it desires. Generally it could be said to be amoral towards us. Imps and elves are what you may call a demon, but I know they are simply other. As for demons in another sense, in the destructive sense, then to me demons are from us, within us, the primeaval side of humanity. And I will be clear and say such demons are not from any god or gods, but are the dark side of humanity. We need no real demons as we have more than sufficient  capacity for any evil. The 20th century is evidence of that

Sounds like you are talking about elementals or jinn.  Religions and cultures tend to confuse things for several reasons, one being the truth is so stark. No nuance or ambiguity with a demon unless they are cloaked in it. Not kind of good or sort of evil. If you are thinking like that you are making an analogy for the human condition, not the demonic realm.

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#110    WoIverine

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 05:45 AM

View Postmarkprice, on 30 March 2013 - 01:07 AM, said:

So you have power over angels. Make one manifest before your next post, so that it will be Divinely inspired, then send it to me to translate the ancient language (you can't possibly understand) so only I can read it, thanks.

Looks like you have some reading to do, before you ask, no, I'm not going to spoon feed it to you, got better things to do, like anything.


#111    Tutankhaten-pasheri

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 08:49 AM

View Postmarkprice, on 30 March 2013 - 01:07 AM, said:

Sounds like you are talking about elementals or jinn.  Religions and cultures tend to confuse things for several reasons, one being the truth is so stark. No nuance or ambiguity with a demon unless they are cloaked in it. Not kind of good or sort of evil. If you are thinking like that you are making an analogy for the human condition, not the demonic realm.
Yes, I know exactly what you mean, though I make a difference between us and not us. The real demons are us, or the potential for evil within us. Creatures from folklore and myths are not us and some are elementals and some from somewhere else. Perhaps a parralel universe that is connected to ours at some actual locations, or sometimes within our minds, though not from us, not simply imagination. I have no dogma on this as I simply do not know, except that what I have experienced, and that is laid out in other threads on this forum.

Edited by Atentutankh-pasheri, 30 March 2013 - 08:50 AM.


#112    Tutankhaten-pasheri

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 09:05 AM

View PostJor-el, on 29 March 2013 - 10:40 PM, said:

And what do you mean by the "shadow world", are you referring to a spirtual realm, a higher dimension or are you referring to something else?

See, I'm trying to understand your view here but for that I also have to understand some things, like the terms you use and take for granted.

In your view what are imps and elves? This is alogical question because anybody whos read Lord of the Rings will have a preconcieved idea of what you have said and I am trying to avoid that.
Generally a parralel universe that is connected to ours here and there, even within a persons mind. I use the words imps and elves because it is convenient and because I would otherwise need to create new names, and perhaps that would be more confusing. People in the past gave names to things they did not understand, and may have feared because they were different and seemed magical. The way that elves and other such creatures are shown is from folk memory passed down the ages. It can seem that I and many others take imagery from LoR, but the reverse is true. I saw things when I was child, smaller than LoR elves, more ethereal. They came before any films or 19th century fantasies, they were always here I think.


#113    H132

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 09:13 AM

"Demon" derives from a long line of variation but originated from the Latin word "daemonium" recaptured in Greek as "daimnion".  The word daemonium was often used to refer to the demigods of the ancient world who flew around in chariots of fire and self-appointed themselves as lords of the people. (AKA "Ancient Aliens").  History just manages to convert one word to another over time until it adopts new meaning and newer misconceptions as to who or what they really are.


#114    danielost

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 10:27 AM

I believe,is that most people believe that it is a demon or satans fault. It isn't, of all ofg he people jesus helps onle 2 or 3 of them were possesed.  The rest he told them to sin no more.

I am a mormon.  If I don't use mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the mormon faith. Thank for careing and if you don't peace be with you.

#115    Jor-el

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 10:43 AM

View Postdanielost, on 30 March 2013 - 12:22 AM, said:

You and me andf everyone else on earth were  type of angels.

I think that needs abit more explaining on your part before I can comment.

In my view we were never a type of angel, we were created above the angels, we lost that position though when mankind sinned and were cast out of Eden.

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#116    Jor-el

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 10:45 AM

View PostAtentutankh-pasheri, on 30 March 2013 - 09:05 AM, said:

Generally a parralel universe that is connected to ours here and there, even within a persons mind. I use the words imps and elves because it is convenient and because I would otherwise need to create new names, and perhaps that would be more confusing. People in the past gave names to things they did not understand, and may have feared because they were different and seemed magical. The way that elves and other such creatures are shown is from folk memory passed down the ages. It can seem that I and many others take imagery from LoR, but the reverse is true. I saw things when I was child, smaller than LoR elves, more ethereal. They came before any films or 19th century fantasies, they were always here I think.

So you are saying that there are interdimensional doorways between our universe and others and that the beings of those other universes are the origin of the folklore that led people to speak of demons and other creatures?

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#117    Tutankhaten-pasheri

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 11:40 AM

View PostJor-el, on 30 March 2013 - 10:45 AM, said:

So you are saying that there are interdimensional doorways between our universe and others and that the beings of those other universes are the origin of the folklore that led people to speak of demons and other creatures?
Yes


#118    Jor-el

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 12:14 PM

View PostAtentutankh-pasheri, on 30 March 2013 - 11:40 AM, said:

Yes

That is not so different from what I believe as well, I do not believe we are talking of alternate universes but rather of a higher dimension in our own universe and that higher dimension is what we call the spirit world.

Yet I also believe that is also the place we go to after death.

Those beings can visit our world as well, but they have no need of portals, they can make their own anywhere they want to.

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#119    Tutankhaten-pasheri

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 01:21 PM

View PostJor-el, on 30 March 2013 - 12:14 PM, said:

That is not so different from what I believe as well, I do not believe we are talking of alternate universes but rather of a higher dimension in our own universe and that higher dimension is what we call the spirit world.

Yet I also believe that is also the place we go to after death.

Those beings can visit our world as well, but they have no need of portals, they can make their own anywhere they want to.
I think it is parallel universe, though how we could know if that was so, or if it was a different and undreamed of part of this universe would be difficult to determine. About if it is where we go to when dead, well, I quote loosely from an ancient Egyptian skeptic (and this is from memory, not some source to quote chapter and verse for pedants). "We make all these preperations for death, make all these offerings, yet nobody ever comes back and says what happens". Fear of punishment from some supreme god, and fear of oblivion after death make us believe all sorts of strange things.


#120    Jor-el

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 01:34 PM

View PostAtentutankh-pasheri, on 30 March 2013 - 01:21 PM, said:

I think it is parallel universe, though how we could know if that was so, or if it was a different and undreamed of part of this universe would be difficult to determine. About if it is where we go to when dead, well, I quote loosely from an ancient Egyptian skeptic (and this is from memory, not some source to quote chapter and verse for pedants). "We make all these preperations for death, make all these offerings, yet nobody ever comes back and says what happens". Fear of punishment from some supreme god, and fear of oblivion after death make us believe all sorts of strange things.

It is not our place to come back, we never do come back, our job is done after death. Our place is to prepare our minds and our hearts for that journey. The ancient Egyptians took that message to heart as did most of the ancient cultures before us.

The fear of punishment, is a result not of some Gods judgement, it is the result of actions we knew to be wrong and did anyway, it is our conscience speaking to us, our conscience would not do that if we ourselves did not consider those actions to be wrong.

There is a story that God does not judge us in the end, he lets us judge ourselves... without the mask of self justification.

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