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Roswell guard ordered to 'shoot to kill'


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#16    quillius

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 04:08 PM

View PostSlave2Fate, on 19 April 2013 - 04:05 PM, said:

Then that leaves it up to Cox's personal interpretation right? He may not have been guarding anything to do with the Roswell Crash. From the description of what Cox was guarding it doesn't exactly fit any other descriptions we have about the debris recovered from Roswell, unless there is something I'm missing?

yes thats how I read it.......



as for the debris descriptions, well thats just nit picking (sarcasm button)

Edited by quillius, 19 April 2013 - 04:10 PM.


#17    Slave2Fate

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 04:13 PM

View Postquillius, on 19 April 2013 - 04:08 PM, said:

as for the debris descriptions, well thats just nit picking (sarcasm button)

:lol:

:P

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#18    Scudbuster

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 05:11 PM

View PostEsoteric Toad, on 19 April 2013 - 02:04 PM, said:

What I do not understand is why did the story die after it made headlines and was not reborn until the 70's in any big way?


That's a good question with a plausible answer IMO. These men in the 1950's, 60's, & 70's were in the prime of their lives career wise. They had no choice other than to follow orders to the letter or risk the possible destruction of their careers.

As we got into the 1980's time and age became more on their side - and consequently the risks of finally talking about they had witnessed or heard began to diminish.


#19    J. K.

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 05:15 PM

The Day After Roswell by Philip Corso was an interesting book to read.

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#20    Hazzard

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 06:21 PM

View PostEsoteric Toad, on 19 April 2013 - 02:04 PM, said:

What I do not understand is why did the story die after it made headlines and was not reborn until the 70's in any big way?

The same reason why nobody gave a rats ass about the Bermuda triangle,... someone desided to write a book about it. Roswell was a non-event for over 30 years, until the UFO nut Stanton Friedman came along.

I still await the compelling Exhibit A.

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#21    Esoteric Toad

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 06:26 PM

View PostScudbuster, on 19 April 2013 - 05:11 PM, said:

That's a good question with a plausible answer IMO. These men in the 1950's, 60's, & 70's were in the prime of their lives career wise. They had no choice other than to follow orders to the letter or risk the possible destruction of their careers.

As we got into the 1980's time and age became more on their side - and consequently the risks of finally talking about they had witnessed or heard began to diminish.
That and there just so happen to be a HUGE increase in interest due to movies like Close Encounters of the Third Kind. Everything/UFO was all the rage! Coincidence? I think not. :no:


#22    Slave2Fate

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 06:27 PM

From the various times I have had guard duty myself I've never been explicitly given orders to 'shoot to kill' however 'excessive force' was deemed permissible and even encouraged. Some may draw the correlation to the threats to witnesses purportedly given during the Roswell incident however they are two entirely different scenarios. One is intimidation of a possible security risk and the other is a definite security risk/criminal activity. I'm pretty sure that simple intimidation wouldn't garner the permission of excessive force and any threats thereof would have been hollow if intimidation had occurred in the first place.

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#23    Gatofeo

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 06:48 PM

I was a U.S. Air Force Security Policeman (Law Enforcement Specialist) at Lowry Air Force Base, in Denver, Colo., 1975-76.
We had a classified building there that we guarded. We sat at a desk inside the door and checked identification. At times, for ramped-up security, we controlled entry at its surrounding fence line and carried M16 rifles and Remington 870 shotguns.
Inside the building, beyond the desk we sat at, was a long hallway of green linoleum that eventually turned to the left, beyond our sight.
Within our sight, at the end of the hallway before it turned left, the tiles became red.
We were instructed that if anyone -- ANYONE -- ignored our identification check and reached those red tiles about 30 feet away, despite our shouts to them to return, we were authorized to shoot them. In the back, if necessary. No one with an unchecked identification was allowed to enter the red tiles. And those who worked there knew it; they ensured their I.D. got checked.
Shooting would have been done with the Smith & Wesson Model 15 .38 Special revolvers were carried on our belt. We didn't keep a rifle or shotgun at the desk.

And what was in the building? We guarded it for more than a year before we learned that it was a receiving station for surveillance satellites. Apparently, to emphasize its importance, we were given a quick tour beyond the end of the hallway.
Lowry Air Force base closed down in the 1990s, so I have no reservations about revealing the building.

I never ONCE heard the order, "Shoot to kill." I suspect that order is a fabrication, perhaps dating from old Hollywood movies.
Anyone in the service I've ever spoken with has merely said they were authorized to shoot an intruder. That's it, "authorized to shoot."
On some military installations, particularly those holding nuclear weapons, signs on the fenceline will say, "USE OF DEADLY FORCE AUTHORIZED."
And that's it ... no "Shoot to Kill" or some such thing. Merely the fact that, if you enter beyond this fenceline, you may be fired upon.
BUT ... and this is a but bigger than a Seattle prom queen's ... deadly force is only authorized to stop an equally deadly act, or an act that will result in permanent debilitating injury.
Trying to enter a nuclear storage facility certainly qualifies as a potentially deadly or debilitating act, and the use of deadly force would be authorized.
Climbing over the fenceline and standing there with a grin wouldn't qualify.
HOWEVER, never discount the fact that the responding mllitary policeman does not know your intent. And he does not know if you have a pistol in your pocket.
If he pulls up and you make a quick movement that would lead any reasonably thinking person that you're going for a weapon, he would be authorized to shoot.
Whether the military policeman kills the suspect is immaterial. He shoots to stop. Forget what you see in the movies about shooting someone in the leg or shoulder. You shoot for center mass, the biggest target available: the chest and abdomen.

I really doubt this soldier's assertion that he was told to "shoot to kill." I served under some old sergeants, who joined the Air Force in the late 1940s and early 1950s (the Air Force was created in 1947), and they never once said such a thing. We were told, "Shoot for center mass" or "shoot to stop." The meaning was clear: shoot, and keep shooting, until the threat no longer exists. Generally, this means that the person is down on the ground, not moving, or indicates surrender.
When I was in the Air Force, if you shot someone you were almost immediately transferred far away from that installation. This was done to avoid retaliation by friends or family members of the person shot. It also isolated you away from other service members that might be involved, so you couldn't collude on an alibi.
I don't know if this practice still exists.

"Shoot to kill?" I don't believe it.

What was in the building at Roswell? It was the beginning of the Cold War, tensions were high, and I understand that the weather balloon carried instruments to "listen" for an atomic blast in the Soviet Union. This would have been a highly classified project.
Guards can employ deadly force to protect high-level national secrecy, in some instances. I suspect that secrecy on this project was very high, and certainly would have qualified.

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#24    King Fluffs

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 07:00 PM

Riveting.


#25    DONTEATUS

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 07:47 PM

Thats just it riveting but one never has a rivet gun when E.T Lands in that back woods farm with Bubba-Joe and his barking dogs to Get one !
:tu: :cry:

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#26    bmk1245

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 08:04 PM

View PostDONTEATUS, on 19 April 2013 - 07:47 PM, said:

Thats just it riveting but one never has a rivet gun when E.T Lands in that back woods farm with Bubba-Joe and his barking dogs to Get one !
:tu: :cry:
Heh, what if you'll encounter  super-rivet gun carrying ETs? Kinda sucks to be super-riveted... On the other hand, cool evening for ETs... Super-riveted barbecue...

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#27    DONTEATUS

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 08:16 PM

Cold cut rivets,Hot Rivets,Pop rivets,counter sunk rivets. cherry rivets, Its all just so Riveting ! Is Roswell ever going to Go away ?
Well Its all about Belief and those that do & Dont
:tu: Cheers mates Prayers to all the Peep`s in texas & Boston !

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#28    bmk1245

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 08:47 PM

View PostDONTEATUS, on 19 April 2013 - 08:16 PM, said:

Cold cut rivets,Hot Rivets,Pop rivets,counter sunk rivets. cherry rivets, Its all just so Riveting ! Is Roswell ever going to Go away ?
[...]
Dammit, BigD, bring you cooker into the field...


View PostDONTEATUS, on 19 April 2013 - 08:16 PM, said:

[...]
:tu: Cheers mates Prayers to all the Peep`s in texas & Boston !
When we will have quiet time to enjoy our meal... Gdammit, BigD, call ETs, maybe they will make all this mess right... Heh...

Arguing with fool is like playing chess with pigeon: he will scatter pieces, peck King's crown, crap on bishop, and fly away bragging how he won the game... (heard once, author unknown).
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#29    Technocrat

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 08:50 PM

View Postspartan max2, on 19 April 2013 - 01:57 PM, said:

I havent been able to make up my mind on aliens yet. :unsure2:

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#30    Technocrat

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 08:56 PM

View PostMantis914, on 19 April 2013 - 02:30 PM, said:

I'm still waiting for the soldiers to come forward that actually retrieved the items and gleaned both areas of the debris.  One thing I know for a fact I would've done had I been Marcel, Jr. and saw that one piece that had writing.  I would've definitely copied it down exactly as it looked or taken a polaroid of it.

I don't think they had polaroids in 1947! :no:

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