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UFO reports - From Foo fighters to today


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#46    psyche101

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 07:50 AM

View PostSlave2Fate, on 10 January 2013 - 07:10 AM, said:

So I take it you don't exactly agree with Stephen Hawking's warning about alien contact? I haven't made up my mind yet whether it would be good or bad to actively announce our presence however I do think a bit of caution is in order. Otherwise it amounts to a roll of the dice and I'd rather not wager the future on it. ^_^

Ohh, I agree with it, I just do not think we roll that way.

I dunno, like I always say - Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind- bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space.

Hell scratch that, I do not say that Douglas Adams did LOL. I think we have some wriggle room with time frames thanks to space.......

Ever seen the Castle? Great Aussie movie. Reminds me of when the heavies showed up at Farouks door........

It's either that, or we sit on the shelf forever I think...... I think we have to dive in some time? It pays to keep Hawking's warning in mind, I agree, but I do not think we are a species that is patient enough to hide in the dark for fear of the unknown.

Hell, maybe that's where all the aliens are? In hiding? We might be the boldest species yet! Everyone in the Universe might be shaking in the boots because these kickass humans are out there looking for it! :D

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#47    psyche101

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 07:56 AM

View PostSlave2Fate, on 10 January 2013 - 07:22 AM, said:

Man, I'm going to have to find a way to migrate to the southern hemisphere for the winter. It's been nothing but cold and wet here with colder and wetter on the way. :lol: :tu:

You always have a place to stay on the Gold Coast Mate.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#48    psyche101

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 07:57 AM

View PostDingoLingo, on 10 January 2013 - 07:45 AM, said:

hell yes!!.. I see you guys are getting the heat now we have had..

will be in the glasshouse mountains tomorrow :) heading over for 5 days

Getting closer, we are going to have to meet Chrlzs at Treetops Tavern one Friday afternoon soon. :D

The Aussie UM contingent get together :D

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#49    Valdemar the Great

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 07:59 AM

View Postpsyche101, on 10 January 2013 - 06:54 AM, said:

By looking at it and listening to it.
Why not transmissions? If we have a target we can narrow and direct a beam. Remember that we are still talking to the Voyager probes. They are just now entering interstellar space. And it will not be ling before pictures become possible in a recent post I offered you a direct picture and an Extra Solar planet - not an image, not an artists depiction, an actual photo. I believe an amateur has achieved this now, how much longer before we can take a picture that shows lights at night? And if we can tell a planets composition at 100 light years, why would we not be able to detect a planet that has a polluted atmosphere?


No, particularly if you are assuming an advanced species. If we are dealing with an advanced species, it seems that it is likely we would be caught "spying" and that could turn real ugly. I believe honesty is the best policy. Make a phone call and say Howdy Do.

If someone does not want to make contact, I do not feel it would be wise to push the issue. After all, it is a big Universe out there. Someone must be friendly. But we have to ask them first don't we?
I do not fathom a situation where there is no point in making contact with an intelligent Aliens species. Maybe reason why one might not want to, but not no point.


Should we not worry about finding A planet before deciding if we are suitable for a Galactic Federation? Something of the cart before the horse there I would say?

And again, if they do not want anything to do with us, there will not be much we can do about it is there? If they say go away, I guess we just simply go away.



Not at all, that is for observing animals in nature to understand behavioural patterns. In our history, whenever we have approached other people, we have not been shy about it. We can ask people, we cannot ask animals. That is the point of the observation, to learn what we cannot see. With intelligent species, we just ask.
What results? What the future might hold? Again, that's just a Sci Fi principal. The future is what we make it, if we stand around wondering what will happen if we say hello, we might never get the opportunity. There is no "future police" like in Star Trek to monitor the time line, things are what they are. sometimes they go as planned, sometimes..... not.

No, I think it would be preposterous to cross the stars to simply watch someone. Intergalactic Big Brother. Damn I hate Big Brother, worst show on the telly. We could make contact with a hundred species in the meantime with communications at no risk, and minimal cost. If we get a hostile Alien on the phone, we can just hang up, can't we? Considering the size of space, no matter who we cheese of, we will have time to prepare for any altercation, and perhaps deploy diplomatic solutions in the meantime. Not to mention we might make some powerful allies along the way as well. It can swing both ways, but we wont know if we sit on our hands in fear.
All these points seem to be assuming that an ET civilisation would specifically be interested in, and would then decide to want to make contact with, us in particular. That's not what I'm envisaging. I'm enivisaging a systematic process of exploration and study of every planet they come across, that's within sensible reach, purely in the interests of studying them in a properly scientific way. Why would they want to make Contact with us specifially, if, as is not unlikely, there are many, many civilisations all across the galazy, many of them (probably) much more advanced than we are. Really, a Galactic Federation? I'm not talking aboit a Galactic Federation. What i said was what these hypothetical ETs might do; not us. I said they might do just what I said above, a systematic process of exploration and study of every planet they come across, that's within sensible reach, purely in the interests of studying them in a properly scientific way. How do you get a Galactic Federisation out of that? That's some extrapolation. If the initial results (obtained by just the method you outline, looking at it and deducing that it might have an atmosphere that might be able to sustain Life) looked encouraging enough, why not add that planet to the list of ones that it might be worth sendign a Probe out to, to study in more detail? Why assume that, having deduced that it might sustain Life, they'd then want to leap in and make Contact?

Life is a hideous business, and from the background behind what we know of it peer daemoniacal hints of truth which make it sometimes a thousandfold more hideous.

H. P. Lovecraft.


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#50    psyche101

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 07:59 AM

View PostSwampgasBalloonBoy, on 10 January 2013 - 03:02 AM, said:

http://home.comcast..../UFO/azconc.htm Thanks for the link, Psyche.  
Also click on the link above by Psyche.

I find the following quite interesting. This is quite scary. But it also explain why many reported UFOs doesn't register on radar.

Here's what it said, "Normally, in a planes formation of seven planes, only the lead plane would turn on is transponder so air traffic controllers could track it. If the lead plane's transponder was turned off, however, the seven planes could passed by without detection"

Another part said, "The Air Traffic System is designed to identify aircraft who want to be identified. I have been aware of instances where the transponder of a medium sized aircraft failed and we flat never saw the guy on the digitized radar. It is very easy to elude FAA radar..."  

What the heck? :no:


He confirms that the object or objects did not register on radar as they passed overhead, a fact seconded by Captain Stacey Cotton of Luke Air Force Base. But both admitted that that doesn't rule out the possibility of a group of airplanes. Cotton says that the radar used by air traffic controllers reads signals emitted by transponders in the airplanes themselves.
Normally, in a formation of seven planes, only the lead plane would turn on its transponder so air traffic controllers could track it. If the lead plane's transponder was turned off, however, the seven planes could have passed by without detection.
Grava says that depending on the planes' altitude, that may have been perfectly legal. (Ortega Great)

The Air Traffic System is designed to identify aircraft who want to be identified. I have been aware of instances where the transponder of a medium sized aircraft failed and we flat never saw the guy on the digitized radar. It is very easy to elude FAA radar... (McIntosh)

I think it is more that they expect people to follow the rules. They could find them if they wanted to, but why look if everyone is supposed to be carrying a beacon?

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#51    DingoLingo

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 08:10 AM

View Postpsyche101, on 10 January 2013 - 07:57 AM, said:

Getting closer, we are going to have to meet Chrlzs at Treetops Tavern one Friday afternoon soon. :D

The Aussie UM contingent get together :D

let me know.. and if I can get over there I will come as well :)


#52    psyche101

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 08:26 AM

View PostLord Vetinari, on 10 January 2013 - 07:59 AM, said:

All these points seem to be assuming that an ET civilisation would specifically be interested in, and would then decide to want to make contact with, us in particular.

Not specifically, I had suggested aiming a signal at a planet that appears to support intelligent life. Perhaps something the likes of the Kepler mission is looking for. If they do not want to answer, we look for the next one.

View PostLord Vetinari, on 10 January 2013 - 07:59 AM, said:

That's not what I'm envisaging. I'm enivisaging a systematic process of exploration and study of every planet they come across, that's within sensible reach, purely in the interests of studying them in a properly scientific way.

Every planet or every planet that has life? I am confused. If we look at Europa, which seems a decent example as being the best hope for alien life at this point in time, we watched it for a very long time, measured it, and evaluated it an every way possible from a distance before sending a probe to photograph it in detail. We still have not sent a probe to the surface of it.

View PostLord Vetinari, on 10 January 2013 - 07:59 AM, said:

Why would they want to make Contact with us specifially, if, as is not unlikely, there are many, many civilisations all across the galazy, many of them (probably) much more advanced than we are.

Because they are advanced? Why does that make us of little value? We find value in contacting lost tribes, and learning from them. I would consider the Western world to be considered the advanced species in that case?

People always say other civilisations would be more advanced than us. Why is this the default position for so many? What reason do we have to believe that? I always thought it was because people think UFO's are alien, and consider that must be advanced from us. It's all one massive assumption, and not based on anything more than personal interpretation. And lets face it, a contingent exists in this faction that is not worth listening to. We have prime examples in this very thread. So just what is this based upon?

View PostLord Vetinari, on 10 January 2013 - 07:59 AM, said:

Really, a Galactic Federation? I'm not talking aboit a Galactic Federation. What i said was what these hypothetical ETs might do; not us. I said they might do just what I said above, a systematic process of exploration and study of every planet they come across, that's within sensible reach, purely in the interests of studying them in a properly scientific way. How do you get a Galactic Federisation out of that? That's some extrapolation.

Don't get your knickers in a twist ;) I did not mean that in a derogatory fashion, sorry if it came across like that. When you said:

What if this is part of a paogram covering the whole Galaxy, or at least the nearest stars, and they haven't specifically chosen us?

Usage of the word They I took to mean the plural where species are concerned considering you mentioned stars. My mistake.

I see a systematic process as you do, but I see it in a different order, and further down the line. I think we can learn a lot from observation and comms before the costly and risky attempt to get there.

View PostLord Vetinari, on 10 January 2013 - 07:59 AM, said:

If the initial results (obtained by just the method you outline, looking at it and deducing that it might have an atmosphere that might be able to sustain Life) looked encouraging enough, why not add that planet to the list of ones that it might be worth sendign a Probe out to, to study in more detail? Why assume that, having deduced that it might sustain Life, they'd then want to leap in and make Contact?

Because if they are intelligent, and we can communicate, we can just ask, and shave decades, of not centuries of the learning process about other worlds. If we can ring up and ask an alien to send us a picture of their planet, why send a probe to do the same thing, and wait a very long time for it? We can have the information at the speed of light. It might be even worth asking the aliens of they know of a "shortcut" through space and make a personal visit. Who knows what we might learn.

Would it not be rude to put a camera on the door step and take sneak pics as opposed to just knocking on the door? I am hoping that manners are somewhat Universal amongst at least some intelligent species. Which I feel proves the woo woo contingent is most surely on an opposite path to the correct one.

Edited by psyche101, 10 January 2013 - 08:29 AM.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#53    psyche101

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 08:27 AM

View PostDingoLingo, on 10 January 2013 - 08:10 AM, said:

let me know.. and if I can get over there I will come as well :)

Still here next Friday? I'll PM Crhlz if so :D

Any UM Gold Coast Lurkers that wish to join us for an Icy Ale in a most wonderful atmosphere?

Believe me, Friday's at Treetops are worth getting to ;)

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#54    DingoLingo

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 08:32 AM

nah I fly back to perth on tuesday night..


#55    SwampgasBalloonBoy

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 12:04 AM

Thanks for the kind word, Psyche, and also for the pointer on the font. It should save me from some typing in the future :tsu:


#56    topsecretresearch

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 05:06 AM

View Postpsyche101, on 07 January 2013 - 08:21 AM, said:

Now none of these are ET related, Tunguska is indeed from space, and the closest analogy to what is being discussed here, but has been presented as a mystery, and anomaly, a possible ET visit, when it is most definitely not. So why push them in an ET forum?
Foo Fighters were balls of light that passed right through planes, and as for the Mystery Airship, that is laughable as ET, whilst it remains a mystery, no being is crossing the galaxy in this, I do not care what any ET'her has to say:

Posted Image

This justifies DL's cynical OP, and it's quite valid as such I feel. These "UFOlogists" make these beds they sleep in, but how they sleep at night I do not know. Anyone who might suggest the above was ET, just because it was "unexplained" deserves no more. As a species, we are too advanced to keep hiding under the covers telling Ghost stories. Well, we should be......... ;)

In all, I think one can take the kid gloves too far. The UFO field dances on this rim. I think we should just call a spade a spade, be done with it, roll our sleeves up, and sort it all out :D

Tunguska could have been something natural such as an asteroid. Disagree on your assesment of Airships and the Foo Fighters which lacks specifics.


#57    psyche101

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 05:49 AM

View PostSwampgasBalloonBoy, on 11 January 2013 - 12:04 AM, said:

Thanks for the kind word, Psyche, and also for the pointer on the font. It should save me from some typing in the future :tsu:

You are most welcome mate. Credit where credit is due. More people like yourself in the world, and the UFO phenomena would be decades in front of where it is now. Skeptics and Believers can work together, but those with an entirely credulous outlook looking for validation assure that animosity will be maintained. And I admit that comes from both sides of the fence where this subject is concerned. One looking for the truth can be believer or skeptic, and still be discussing the same thing. The kind words are merely descriptors, you my friend, did the hard yards to make that happen.

Edited by psyche101, 11 January 2013 - 05:49 AM.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#58    psyche101

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 05:58 AM

View Posttopsecretresearch, on 11 January 2013 - 05:06 AM, said:

Tunguska could have been something natural such as an asteroid. Disagree on your assesment of Airships and the Foo Fighters which lacks specifics.

I beg your pardon, I gave some examples, you only gave a title.

Want more? just ask.

The most detailed report of the evening came from one R.L. Lowery, a former street railway employee who said he heard a voice from above call, "Throw her up higher; she'll hit the steeple." When he looked up he saw two men seated on a bicycle-like frame, peddling. Above them was a "cigar-shaped body of some length." Lowery said that the thing also had "wheels at the side like the side wheels on Fulton's old steam boat."

ver the state. On February 16th it was sighted over Omaha. More stories appeared. A farmer claimed he'd encountered the airship on the ground, under repair. "It is cigar shaped, about 200 feet long and 50 feet across at the widest point, gradually narrowing to a point at both ends," the farmer said.

and the description was this

Posted Image





Quote

These strange flying blobs of light became a much feared element of American, German, and British pilots, as they would appear without warning, and often times complicate an already difficult situation. Even attempts by some U.S. pilots to ram them were in vain, as they flew right through them as if they were simply a mirage.

Even with the evidence that we have, there is not one documented case of any plane being damaged by one of the foo fighters, although there were reports of pilots scrapping a mission because of them. The foo fighter term itself is an enigma, being attributed to several different sources, but probably initiated with a comic strip called "Smokey Stover," who was a fire fighter, and often said, "Where there's foo there's fire. "Foo" was a French word for fire, or "feuer," the German word for the same.

LINK

Every student of the history of UFOs knows of the phenomenon seen during WWII and known as foo-fighters, kraut fireballs or a variety of other names. Basically they were balls of light which followed and hovered around `planes of all nationalities both in daylight and after dark.

"And then the `impossible' happened. B-17 Number 026 closed rapidly with a number of discs; the pilot attempted to evade an imminent collision with the objects, but was unsuccessful in his maneuver. He reported at the intelligence debriefing that his right wing "went directly through a cluster with absolutely no effect on engines or plane surface."


LINK



Is that OK? I wont bother with Tunguska, blaming that on aliens is just plain silly.

You know, your nick implies that you really ought to be aware of the above.

Edited by psyche101, 11 January 2013 - 06:00 AM.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#59    topsecretresearch

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 06:12 AM

One thing to keep in mind is people would use terms familiar to them at the time. So a cigar-shaped UFO could have been interpreted as an airship, ghost flyer. The Airship Wave of the late 1800s could have had some UFO truth in it. Just like Finland offcially investigated UFOs during the mid 1930s.

You can read the article here: http://fimufon.wordp...-ufo-incidents/

Hundreds of citizens would have callled them mysterious phantom aircrafts or ghost fliers. A UFO shooting down a beam would have been described as a spotlight at the time. Coral E. Lorenzen used the term hemispherical-shaped object instead of flying saucer.

Foo Fighters could have been the small spherical probes or balls of light observed around larger UFO craft. Some Foo Fighters were described as small disc.


#60    topsecretresearch

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 06:41 AM

View Postpsyche101, on 11 January 2013 - 05:58 AM, said:

I beg your pardon, I gave some examples, you only gave a title.

Want more? just ask.

The most detailed report of the evening came from one R.L. Lowery, a former street railway employee who said he heard a voice from above call, "Throw her up higher; she'll hit the steeple." When he looked up he saw two men seated on a bicycle-like frame, peddling. Above them was a "cigar-shaped body of some length." Lowery said that the thing also had "wheels at the side like the side wheels on Fulton's old steam boat."

ver the state. On February 16th it was sighted over Omaha. More stories appeared. A farmer claimed he'd encountered the airship on the ground, under repair. "It is cigar shaped, about 200 feet long and 50 feet across at the widest point, gradually narrowing to a point at both ends," the farmer said.

Cigar-shape should give you a clue since that type of UFO craft has been reported a lot but also keep in mind during that time period some of the details may reflect the culture of the time.

View Postpsyche101, on 11 January 2013 - 05:58 AM, said:

and the description was this

Posted Image

LINK

That would be a computer generated image based on how a person would have see an object 100+ years ago. Culture at the time very much influenced how a person would describe a UFO and the terms they would use.

View Postpsyche101, on 11 January 2013 - 05:58 AM, said:

Every student of the history of UFOs knows of the phenomenon seen during WWII and known as foo-fighters, kraut fireballs or a variety of other names. Basically they were balls of light which followed and hovered around `planes of all nationalities both in daylight and after dark.

"And then the `impossible' happened. B-17 Number 026 closed rapidly with a number of discs; the pilot attempted to evade an imminent collision with the objects, but was unsuccessful in his maneuver. He reported at the intelligence debriefing that his right wing "went directly through a cluster with absolutely no effect on engines or plane surface."

The objects could have quickly move around the B-17 too. Foo Fighters remian a mystery and could have easily been ET  probes. The small probes are also observed around UFO craft and sometimes during an alien abduction.



You can see towards the end of this YouTube clip about the Wytheville, Virginia UFO flap a small red probe is observed docking with a rather large craft.

Edited by topsecretresearch, 11 January 2013 - 06:43 AM.





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