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'matter' from the latin word for mother?


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#31    illuminol

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Posted 21 February 2010 - 11:39 AM

Here's what i think is a possibility concerning the evolution of language - I see a link between the words we use and the evolution of the symbolic language of the subconcious mind. The words we use and their origins have metaphysical significance that can be attributed to the archetypal symbolism of the psyche. I don't think there ever was a deliberate or conscious choice of the word 'matter' to signify the substance of everything in the material world by anyone in particular. If there was, i've not been able to find that kind of evidence.
I think it just evolved that way, naturally, and that this  knowledge is innate. The receptive and the creative are the words we use for the symbolic origin of all things! 'Matter', feminine/receptive, 'Pattern'- masculine/creative.
I'm not talking absolutes, I'm making an observation. :innocent:


#32    illuminol

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Posted 11 March 2010 - 09:48 PM

An interesting blog : Its symbology stupid!


#33    lovecraft10

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Posted 27 July 2010 - 10:37 PM

Hi - I know this discussion happened months ago but just wanted to find out if you were still interested in discussing it. I too am very interested in the correlation between Mother and matter. I've been interested in physics for many years. I'm working on a story about nested worlds, nested universes and a mother who creates one for her daughter. A world within a world. And I keep coming back to the idea of the laws of quantum mechanics and the idea that electrons exist as a wave function until they are "observed". Only through observation do they "decide" their position. It leads me to believe that our universe requires some kind of outside observer in order to exist. Then I keep thinking about the origins of the word Mother and matter, creator of life, creator of the universe. And then I have this constant image in my head of nested Russian dolls. I don't know most of it is just random thoughts but I found this thread and was interested in any thoughts or discoveries you've made since your last post.

thanks.


#34    puridalan

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 01:22 AM

You then also have dura mater meaning TOUGH mother..hehe that always makes me laugh XD


#35    Blacksabbath

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 03:04 PM

View Postilluminol, on 15 February 2010 - 09:22 PM, said:

Most Etymologists agree that the word 'matter' is a derivitive of the latin word 'mater' meaning mother. How did this happen? and how does this relate to the word 'pattern' which is derived from the latin word for father?  Deliberate or meaningful co-incidence?

Hmm I thought this was "debunked" in another topic.


#36    Imaginarynumber1

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 10:01 PM

I'm in my second year of studying Classical and Scholastic Latin and I am pretty sure that everyone who is claiming this topic debunked is accurate.
The word matter comes from the Latin ' materia, materiae - the subtance from which things are made'.  A noun of the first declension, feminine in gender.
It is possible it has relation to 'mater, matris- origin, mother', but other than the close spelling (as is common of many unalike Latin words i.e. the noun "bellum, belli- war" and the adjective "bellus, bella, bellum- pretty or handsome") I do not believe that there is any concrete evidence of a link between 'mater, martris' and matter.

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#37    Virtual Particle

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Posted 29 July 2010 - 01:43 AM

View PostImaginarynumber1, on 28 July 2010 - 10:01 PM, said:

I'm in my second year of studying Classical and Scholastic Latin and I am pretty sure that everyone who is claiming this topic debunked is accurate.
The word matter comes from the Latin ' materia, materiae - the subtance from which things are made'.  A noun of the first declension, feminine in gender.
It is possible it has relation to 'mater, matris- origin, mother', but other than the close spelling (as is common of many unalike Latin words i.e. the noun "bellum, belli- war" and the adjective "bellus, bella, bellum- pretty or handsome") I do not believe that there is any concrete evidence of a link between 'mater, martris' and matter.

Quote

Main Entry: or·i·gin
Pronunciation: \ˈȯr-ə-jən, ˈär-\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English origine, from Latin origin-, origo, from oriri to rise — more at orient
Date: 15th century
1 : ancestry, parentage
2 a : rise, beginning, or derivation from a source b : the point at which something begins or rises or from which it derives <the origin of the custom>; also : something that creates, causes, or gives rise to another <a spring is the origin of the brook>
3 : the more fixed, central, or larger attachment of a muscle
4 : the intersection of coordinate axes

synonyms origin, source, inception, root mean the point at which something begins its course or existence. origin applies to the things or persons from which something is ultimately derived and often to the causes operating before the thing itself comes into being <an investigation into the origin of baseball>. source applies more often to the point where something springs into being <the source of the Nile> <the source of recurrent trouble>. inception stresses the beginning of something without implying causes <the business has been a success since its inception>. root suggests a first, ultimate, or fundamental source often not easily discerned <the real root of the violence>.


The term "Origin" relates to parentage you who claim otherwise are clearly incorrect.

Edited by Virtual Particle, 29 July 2010 - 01:46 AM.

Time is a form of communication
Consciousness transcends all states
that can be perceived as matter
Matter communicates its existence
to consciousness through time        
Man is infinite
God is more
Black Hole Creates Spectacular Light Show

#38    KainFall

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 09:23 PM

View Postilluminol, on 15 February 2010 - 09:22 PM, said:

Most Etymologists agree that the word 'matter' is a derivitive of the latin word 'mater' meaning mother. How did this happen? and how does this relate to the word 'pattern' which is derived from the latin word for father?  Deliberate or meaningful co-incidence?


Id say with the coincidence that the word matter- mater meaning mother in latin relates to females are creation. Matter is neither creater nor destroyed yet it is formed and deformed, an it may relate to the word pattern with father cause mother creates or forms and the father releases the pattern of the physical being, i suppose. Then you might tie it together with your mind, with all those terms father being the beginning the envision of the pattern and the mother being the matter being placed.

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#39    Superglobe

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 10:00 PM

Etymologies are weird. That's about as much of an explanation as there is.

nothing to see here, folks.

#40    Slorri

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 11:24 PM

View PostSpain Sun, on 02 August 2010 - 10:00 PM, said:

Etymologies are weird. That's about as much of an explanation as there is.

Posted Image

To complicate mothers a bit further I have it from the Swedish Etymological word-book that the word mother, swedish moder, sanskrit matar, etc., is derived from the ancient childish word ma. Childish meaning what a small child would say.

The word matter, swedish materia, it is said, quote: "by some derived from mother, and in that case meaning original substance (mother-matter), but this is uncertain."


#41    illuminol

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 03:14 PM

View PostImaginarynumber1, on 28 July 2010 - 10:01 PM, said:

I'm in my second year of studying Classical and Scholastic Latin and I am pretty sure that everyone who is claiming this topic debunked is accurate.
The word matter comes from the Latin ' materia, materiae - the subtance from which things are made'.  A noun of the first declension, feminine in gender.
It is possible it has relation to 'mater, matris- origin, mother', but other than the close spelling (as is common of many unalike Latin words i.e. the noun "bellum, belli- war" and the adjective "bellus, bella, bellum- pretty or handsome") I do not believe that there is any concrete evidence of a link between 'mater, martris' and matter.

Why is that?  Tell me about this holy grail of 'concrete' evidence a bit more...and what are your views on the evolution of language and the psyche?

Edited by illuminol, 04 August 2010 - 03:22 PM.


#42    illuminol

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 03:28 PM

View PostKainFall, on 02 August 2010 - 09:23 PM, said:

Id say with the coincidence that the word matter- mater meaning mother in latin relates to females are creation. Matter is neither creater nor destroyed yet it is formed and deformed, an it may relate to the word pattern with father cause mother creates or forms and the father releases the pattern of the physical being, i suppose. Then you might tie it together with your mind, with all those terms father being the beginning the envision of the pattern and the mother being the matter being placed.

You mean the substance and the form!?  the pattern is the form and matter the substance. But there is no coincidence, only a connection which has surfaced as a symbol (word) the symbol is flexible but it reflects a direct relationship between mater and matter. Actually, the substance and the form are interchangeable when i think about it!

Edited by illuminol, 04 August 2010 - 03:31 PM.


#43    illuminol

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 03:35 PM

View PostSlorri, on 02 August 2010 - 11:24 PM, said:

Posted Image

To complicate mothers a bit further I have it from the Swedish Etymological word-book that the word mother, swedish moder, sanskrit matar, etc., is derived from the ancient childish word ma. Childish meaning what a small child would say.

The word matter, swedish materia, it is said, quote: "by some derived from mother, and in that case meaning original substance (mother-matter), but this is uncertain."

and i love the uncertainty. Uncertainty is room to breath and space in which to explore.


#44    illuminol

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 03:52 PM

View Postlovecraft10, on 27 July 2010 - 10:37 PM, said:

Hi - I know this discussion happened months ago but just wanted to find out if you were still interested in discussing it. I too am very interested in the correlation between Mother and matter. I've been interested in physics for many years. I'm working on a story about nested worlds, nested universes and a mother who creates one for her daughter. A world within a world. And I keep coming back to the idea of the laws of quantum mechanics and the idea that electrons exist as a wave function until they are "observed". Only through observation do they "decide" their position. It leads me to believe that our universe requires some kind of outside observer in order to exist. Then I keep thinking about the origins of the word Mother and matter, creator of life, creator of the universe. And then I have this constant image in my head of nested Russian dolls. I don't know most of it is just random thoughts but I found this thread and was interested in any thoughts or discoveries you've made since your last post.

thanks.

causality, there has to be an observation that in turn relies upon a possibility! the symbolic parental 'duo' of receptive and creative forces must create an environment in order to exist, but in multi dimensional space, there is no before or after, they would occur simultaneously ?


#45    SlimJim22

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 08:16 PM

Maia is mainly remembered today as the goddess of spring and rebirth, like the month of May that bears her name. "Maia" means "the maker," and every spring she makes the lush green grass and the fragrant flowers grow again. She is also praised as "the grandmother of magic" because her son [by Zeus], the god Hermes, was the first to discover that mysterious art.

Like Shakti ("Energy") and Prakriti ("nature"), Maya is less a Goddess than one of the great philosophic concepts of Indian Hinduism embodied in female form. In Hindu thought, the male energy is essentially passive, while the female is the force of action. Maya is one of those active powers: the constant movement of the universe, pervasive to the atomic level. There is no life -- no existence, even -- without Maya, but she is so powerful that we cannot see the essence of things and mistake her movement for reality. For this reason, Maya is often called "the veil of illusion," the dance of multiplicity that distracts us so that we cannot see all matter as essentially identical. Illusion, however, as the sages have stressed, is not the same as falsehood. Maya is not a negative force, but can be a mesh through which we perceive the ultimate reality of existence -- if we are not distracted by her magnificent creativeness and complexity.


http://www.menlo.com.../Maya_Name.html

I think you will like this next one Illuminol.

http://quanta-gaia.o...ionsOfMaya.html

The other big 'M' is universal or objective mind. To what extent is matter a construct of mind and vibrations and therefore this maya or illusion. It's a bit long but another good article on this topic.

http://www.ignca.nic.in/ps_04008.htm

There is something to be said for ma and pa as the words that come easiest to children.

http://www.sussex.ac...re_do_mama2.pdf

However, during the development and progression of sankrit and indo-european languages the philosophy becomes ever more important. As sankrit is the root that went through greece and into rome as thought and philosophy the connection appears to be a good one IMHO.

"I belive no thing, I follow the Law of One. I am a Man-O'-Sion under construction."




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