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Pack of hunting hounds attack fox on road


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#46    freetoroam

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 08:31 PM

View Postxsas, on 26 February 2013 - 03:46 PM, said:

Its not unusual people to be likked by cows, in recent years one summer alone 4/5 people were killed by them.


Home many children have been killed by family pets and compare that to how many children have been killed by fox's?

Here is a new report on other fox attacks on people: Fox attacks They dug pretty deep to come up with 4 or incidents and had to go back to 2002 to pull them out.

Urban wildlife expert John Bryant said such an attack was extremely rare. Link

"I have only ever heard of two cases in my 40 years of dealing with foxes, one of which turned out to be a German Shepherd and the other a cat," he said.

Fox hunting is barabaric, it is animal cruelty at its worst, and I repeat myself whe I say this: "You can always judge the moral fibre of individuals by the way they treat animals".


In an ideal World a law would be passed were NO guns were allowed and all those out there destroyed, trouble is the law makers are not going to take a risk of trying to pass that without making sure they are armed first.

#47    Professor Buzzkill

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 08:32 PM

View Postfreetoroam, on 26 February 2013 - 08:29 PM, said:

The dogs are killing the fox for the amusement of the rich man on his horse which they class as a sport. if the dogs were killings the fox because of a natural process of survival, then fine, but this is not the case.

So you aren't against the torment of animals by other animals unless a human is watching. What if the guys on horseback looked the other way. Would that be ok?


#48    freetoroam

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 08:35 PM

View PostProfessor Buzzkill, on 26 February 2013 - 08:32 PM, said:

So you aren't against the torment of animals by other animals unless a human is watching. What if the guys on horseback looked the other way. Would that be ok?

haha, you are having it up my back.
That is not what I was saying at all.

Nature is cruel, but this "sport" is not part of nature.

In an ideal World a law would be passed were NO guns were allowed and all those out there destroyed, trouble is the law makers are not going to take a risk of trying to pass that without making sure they are armed first.

#49    Professor Buzzkill

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 08:37 PM

View Postfreetoroam, on 26 February 2013 - 08:35 PM, said:

haha, you are having it up my back.
That is not what I was saying at all.

Nature is cruel, but this "sport" is not part of nature.

By definition, anything done by an animal (or human) is part of nature. In my country (where there are no foxes) we use dogs with gps locators to track and hold boars for hunters to shoot or stab to death. I fail to see the difference between a boar and a fox apart from the cute factor.

Edited by Professor Buzzkill, 26 February 2013 - 08:38 PM.


#50    Moon Gazer

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 08:47 PM

View PostProfessor Buzzkill, on 26 February 2013 - 08:37 PM, said:

By definition, anything done by an animal (or human) is part of nature. In my country (where there are no foxes) we use dogs with gps locators to track and hold boars for hunters to shoot or stab to death. I fail to see the difference between a boar and a fox apart from the cute factor.

I think that is also disgusting, its got nothing to do with cute factor.  Although I am guessing that at least the boars get eaten?  If someone wants to head out with a gun and kill an animal that they will later eat then fair enough, that is their decision.  But in my opinion, to hunt down an animal in the name of sport, for it to be chased for miles upon miles, terrified and then eventually torn to pieces for nothing more than the thrill and amusement of humans is just sickening.


#51    Professor Buzzkill

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 08:52 PM

View PostMoon Gazer, on 26 February 2013 - 08:47 PM, said:

I think that is also disgusting, its got nothing to do with cute factor.  Although I am guessing that at least the boars get eaten?  If someone wants to head out with a gun and kill an animal that they will later eat then fair enough, that is their decision.  But in my opinion, to hunt down an animal in the name of sport, for it to be chased for miles upon miles, terrified and then eventually torn to pieces for nothing more than the thrill and amusement of humans is just sickening.

Is it more or less sick than watching a fox kill 20 chickens even though it can only eat 1? Do you have no sympathy for the poor chickens whose meat was not eaten?

Quote

It is not uncommon for one fox to wipe out 100 chickens in a night.

http://professorchic...ebs.com/fox.htm

It seems the fox is more of a sadistic killer than any human.


#52    Moon Gazer

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 08:59 PM

View PostProfessor Buzzkill, on 26 February 2013 - 08:52 PM, said:

Is it more or less sick than watching a fox kill 20 chickens even though it can only eat 1? Do you have no sympathy for the poor chickens whose meat was not eaten?



http://professorchic...ebs.com/fox.htm

It seems the fox is more of a sadistic killer than any human.

Yeah I would say it's pretty awful that a fox would do that.  Any human who would stand there and watch a fox do that and enjoy it would have to be pretty sick in the head to me.  Just the same as any human who would stand by and enjoy watching a fox getting torn to pieces and enjoy it is pretty sick in the head. (IMO)


#53    Professor Buzzkill

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 09:02 PM

View PostMoon Gazer, on 26 February 2013 - 08:59 PM, said:

Yeah I would say it's pretty awful that a fox would do that.  Any human who would stand there and watch a fox do that and enjoy it would have to be pretty sick in the head to me.  Just the same as any human who would stand by and enjoy watching a fox getting torn to pieces and enjoy it is pretty sick in the head. (IMO)

What about a human who did see it (and did not enjoy watching the slaughter*), went to get his dogs, chased the fox with his dogs and allowed them to kill the fox. Would he still be considered sick?

*I had to put this in as, for some reason, if you hunt you are considered a maniac who enjoys tormenting things. I personally have shot and killed pests including possums and rabbits. Did i enjoy it? Not so much, but someone has to do it. (BTW i did not use the skin or meat of either pest due to concerns about disease)

Edited by Professor Buzzkill, 26 February 2013 - 09:06 PM.


#54    Moon Gazer

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 09:13 PM

View PostProfessor Buzzkill, on 26 February 2013 - 09:02 PM, said:

What about a human who did see it (and did not enjoy watching the slaughter*), went to get his dogs, chased the fox with his dogs and allowed them to kill the fox. Would he still be considered sick?

*I had to put this in as, for some reason, if you hunt you are considered a maniac who enjoys tormenting things. I personally have shot and killed pests including possums and rabbits. Did i enjoy it? Not so much, but someone has to do it. (BTW i did not use the skin or meat of either pest due to concerns about disease)

Look I can *get* a farmer wanting to protect his chickens.  If it was farmers calling for a cull to protect their chickens, while I wouldn't want that to go ahead (there are fox proof chicken coops) I could at least see that they want to protect their chickens and part of their livelyhood.

What really gets my back up though is fox hunters saying that the ban on hunting with hounds should be lifted because kids are at risk, when really that is just a load of bull and they are thinking up excuses to try and let them enjoy their sickening "sport" without risking fines.


#55    jules99

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 09:14 PM

For me foxhunting is about a terrified animal being chased to exhaustion before being ripped to pieces when finally caught.. And people with their children out for a fun day on horseback enjoying the spectacle, When will people learn that it isnt "fun" to terrorise and kill. If killing is necessary it shouldnt be seen as entertainment and be done humanely as possible. Fear, Misery and suffering are things we can all empathize with, so why inflict them unnecessarily on any living creature.


#56    Professor Buzzkill

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 09:19 PM

View PostMoon Gazer, on 26 February 2013 - 08:59 PM, said:

Yeah I would say it's pretty awful that a fox would do that.  Any human who would stand there and watch a fox do that and enjoy it would have to be pretty sick in the head to me. Just the same as any human who would stand by and enjoy watching a fox getting torn to pieces and enjoy it is pretty sick in the head. (IMO)

Just to make myself clearer. The point was that a farmer who has chickens would not be happy to stand there and watch a fox kill 100 chickens. In fact, these attacks mostly happen at night. If i were a farmer who woke up one day with 100 dead chickens in my hen house, i would be very interested in fox hunting and would not feel disgusted by letting dogs kill in thier natural way (chasing and biting).

The fact that the event of a hunt has become a "fun day out" is just human nature. People are hunting the foxes in groups becuase it is more effective than a lone farmer. Once groups get together, it is human nature to have fun. Hence the hunt is a fun day out. These people do not enjoy watching dogs kill, they enjoy the day. The killing is just a nessessary evil.

To demonize these people because their ancestor used to be rich is crazy. The gentry have been involved in hunts ever since they looked after the welfare of farmers on their estates for close to 1000 years.

Edited by Professor Buzzkill, 26 February 2013 - 09:21 PM.


#57    Moon Gazer

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 09:23 PM

View PostProfessor Buzzkill, on 26 February 2013 - 09:19 PM, said:

Just to make myself clearer. The point was that a farmer who has chickens would not be happy to stand there and watch a fox kill 100 chickens. In fact, these attacks mostly happen at night. If i were a farmer who woke up one day with 100 dead chickens in my hen house, i would be very interested in fox hunting and would not feel disgusted by letting dogs kill in thier natural way (chasing and biting).

The fact that the event of a hunt has become a "fun day out" is just human nature. People are hunting the foxes in groups becuase it is more effective than a lone farmer. Once groups get together, it is human nature to have fun. Hence the hunt is a fun day out. These people do not enjoy watching dogs kill, they enjoy the day. The killing is just a nessessary evil.

This is where we just have to disagree because I certainly would not be having a fun day out knowing that a fox could be possibly getting torn to bits at the end of it.  If the fun bit is in the getting together then just meet up with friends and go for a ride.


#58    Professor Buzzkill

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 09:32 PM

View PostMoon Gazer, on 26 February 2013 - 09:23 PM, said:

This is where we just have to disagree because I certainly would not be having a fun day out knowing that a fox could be possibly getting torn to bits at the end of it.  If the fun bit is in the getting together then just meet up with friends and go for a ride.

Which serves no purpose. At least the hunt prevents the slaughter of hundreds of livestock animals, whose torment would be at least as bad as the poor foxes.

Edited by Professor Buzzkill, 26 February 2013 - 09:34 PM.


#59    MoorWalks

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 09:38 PM

View PostProfessor Buzzkill, on 26 February 2013 - 09:19 PM, said:

Just to make myself clearer. The point was that a farmer who has chickens would not be happy to stand there and watch a fox kill 100 chickens. In fact, these attacks mostly happen at night. If i were a farmer who woke up one day with 100 dead chickens in my hen house, i would be very interested in fox hunting and would not feel disgusted by letting dogs kill in thier natural way (chasing and biting).

The fact that the event of a hunt has become a "fun day out" is just human nature. People are hunting the foxes in groups becuase it is more effective than a lone farmer. Once groups get together, it is human nature to have fun. Hence the hunt is a fun day out. These people do not enjoy watching dogs kill, they enjoy the day. The killing is just a nessessary evil.

To demonize these people because their ancestor used to be rich is crazy. The gentry have been involved in hunts ever since they looked after the welfare of farmers on their estates for close to 1000 years.

View PostProfessor Buzzkill, on 26 February 2013 - 09:19 PM, said:

Just to make myself clearer. The point was that a farmer who has chickens would not be happy to stand there and watch a fox kill 100 chickens. In fact, these attacks mostly happen at night. If i were a farmer who woke up one day with 100 dead chickens in my hen house, i would be very interested in fox hunting and would not feel disgusted by letting dogs kill in thier natural way (chasing and biting).

The fact that the event of a hunt has become a "fun day out" is just human nature. People are hunting the foxes in groups becuase it is more effective than a lone farmer. Once groups get together, it is human nature to have fun. Hence the hunt is a fun day out. These people do not enjoy watching dogs kill, they enjoy the day. The killing is just a nessessary evil.

To demonize these people because their ancestor used to be rich is crazy. The gentry have been involved in hunts ever since they looked after the welfare of farmers on their estates for close to 1000 years.

I don’t know what the laws are about hunting boars where you live, it may well be legal, fox hunting here isn’t, just the same way we can’t chop the hand of a thief like they do in the Middle east or stone a woman to death in the street because she smiled at or was seen with another man.
  • I have no problem with a farmer killing a fox to protect his livestock.
  • I have no problem with a relative killing a fox to protect their child.
  • I have no problem with an individual killing a fox to protect themselves.
I do have a problem with a groups of organised Hooray Henry’s dresses in funny cloths hunting down every fox they see and slaughtering it as a pastime. Most of these people are not effected by foxes, it is just a callous after school activity to them.

Tell me why the Prime minister need to do this as a pastime? Do you think his chickens are killed or they attack his geese?

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#60    Moon Gazer

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 09:41 PM

View PostProfessor Buzzkill, on 26 February 2013 - 09:32 PM, said:

Which serves no purpose. At least the hunt prevents the slaughter of hundreds of livestock animals.

In the name of entertainment for the hunters, which is why the majority of them do it.  I am sure there are some farmers out there who care about their chickens but the majority do it for fun and nothing to do with saving chickens, and this is why I have a problem with it.
People are not going out with a gun and trying to cleanly kill a fox (which I would still have issues with as I believe there are ways and means of keeping foxes out of chicken coops), a successful hunt results in a fox being terrified and torn to pieces in what I am sure is a painful death.  In my opinion its just sick.





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