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Genesis Chapter 1


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#61    White Crane Feather

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 05:02 PM

Modern humans were reduced to around 2,000 individuals at some point in our past. I think it was a super volcanic eruption and a corresponding ice age. Those must have been fun times.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
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#62    Abramelin

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 05:12 PM

View PostSeeker79, on 22 February 2013 - 05:02 PM, said:

Modern humans were reduced to around 2,000 individuals at some point in our past. I think it was a super volcanic eruption and a corresponding ice age. Those must have been fun times.

You mean the Mount Toba eruption around 75,000 BP.

Yeah, it appears humans almost died out.


#63    Abramelin

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 05:16 PM

View PostCopen, on 22 February 2013 - 03:48 AM, said:

"In the beginning God created the heaven (singular) and the earth." Why is it important that we notice that heaven is singular? Because God does "everything twice for our strong consolation." We don't know how long ago was the creation of heaven and earth; but God calls that the beginning of His creation.

<snip>


You might want to read the literal translation of the Hebrew original:


A Mechanical Translation of the Book of Genesis
The Hebrew text literally translated word for word


1:1
in the summit “Elohiym [Powers]”
fattened the sky and the land,
1:2
and the land had existed in
confusion and was unfilled and
darkness was upon the face of the
deep sea and the wind of “Elohiym
[Powers]” was much fluttering
upon the face of the water,
1:3
and “Elohiym [Powers]” said, light
exist and light existed,
1:4
and “Elohiym [Powers]” saw the
light given that it was functional
and “Elohiym [Powers]” made a
separation between the light and the
darkness,
1:5
and “Elohiym [Powers]” called out
to the light day and to the darkness
he called out night and evening
existed and morning existed one
day,
1:6
and “Elohiym [Powers]” said, a
sheet will exist in the midst of the
water and he existed making a
separation between water to water,
1:7
and “Elohiym [Powers]” made the
sheet and he made a separation
between the water which is under
the sheet and the water which is
upon the sheet and he existed so,
1:8
and “Elohiym [Powers]” called out
to the sheet, sky, and evening
existed and morning existed a
second day,
1:9
and “Elohiym [Powers]” said, the
water will be bound up from under
the sky to one place and dry ground
appeared and he existed so,
1:10
and “Elohiym [Powers]” called out
to the dry ground, land, and the
collection of the water he called
out, seas, and “Elohiym [Powers]”
saw that it was functional,
1:11
and “Elohiym [Powers]” said, the
land will make grass sprout, herbs
making a sowing of seeds, trees of
produce making produce to his kind
which his seed is in him upon the
land, and he existed so,

And so on.

http://www.ancient-h...e-books/mtg.pdf


#64    Abramelin

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 05:28 PM

View PostCopen, on 22 February 2013 - 03:48 AM, said:


<snip>

The Garden of Eden and the field is Israel and Jerusalem. The river boundaries are Tigris/Euphrates to the north, Nile to the south at Cush, and Jordan to the east. Since earth was still one large landmass until the earthquake of Peleg's day, the Mediterranean Sea was not there yet, sometime after Noah's flood.
May God remove the blindness of the Laodiceans.

About the location of the Garden of Eden:

View PostAbramelin, on 17 September 2012 - 03:54 PM, said:

The most recent building phase at Göbekli Tepe (Level II) has been dated both comparatively and absolutely (C14) to ca 8,000 BC, with an earlier primary building phase (Level III) ending as early as 9,000 BC. The age of the earliest occupation cannot yet be determined; the depth of the deposit, however, would suggest a period of several millennia, which signifies that the site had already existed in early Palaeolithic times.

==

Karahan Tepe, a site only discovered in the late 1990s and still awaiting full excavation. This is located near Sogmatar on the Harran Plain, and dates back 11,000 years at least. Already a large number of T-Shaped pillars and stone rows have been uncovered here.

Karahan Tepe lies 60 km east from Urfa in an area called Tektek Daglari. Some 266 in situ pillars (Like the Göbekli pillars...only smaller) cover the field and are visible 50-60 cm above ground level. The rest of the pillars are still covered under the earth.

http://www.ancient-w...rkeygobekli.htm





+++++



But there was a problem for these early farmers, and it wasn't just that they had adopted a tougher, if ultimately more productive, lifestyle. They also experienced an ecological crisis. These days the landscape surrounding the eerie stones of Gobekli is arid and barren, but it was not always thus. As the carvings on the stones show - and as archaeological remains reveal - this was once a richly pastoral region.

There were herds of game, rivers of fish, and flocks of wildfowl; lush green meadows were ringed by woods and wild orchards. About 10,000 years ago, the Kurdish desert was a 'paradisiacal place', as Schmidt puts it. So what destroyed the environment? The answer is Man.

As we began farming, we changed the landscape and the climate. When the trees were chopped down, the soil leached away; all that ploughing and reaping left the land eroded and bare. What was once an agreeable oasis became a land of stress, toil and diminishing returns.

And so, paradise was lost. Adam the hunter was forced out of his glorious Eden, 'to till the earth from whence he was taken' - as the Bible puts it.

Of course, these theories might be dismissed as speculations. Yet there is plenty of historical evidence to show that the writers of the Bible, when talking of Eden, were, indeed, describing this corner of Kurdish Turkey.

In the Book of Genesis, it is indicated that Eden is west of Assyria. Sure enough, this is where Gobekli is sited.
Likewise, biblical Eden is by four rivers, including the Tigris and Euphrates. And Gobekli lies between both of these.

In ancient Assyrian texts, there is mention of a 'Beth Eden' - a house of Eden. This minor kingdom was 50 miles from Gobekli Tepe.

Another book in the Old Testament talks of 'the children of Eden which were in Thelasar', a town in northern Syria, near Gobekli.

The very word 'Eden' comes from the Sumerian for 'plain'; Gobekli lies on the plains of Harran.

Thus, when you put it all together, the evidence is persuasive. Gobekli Tepe is, indeed, a 'temple in Eden', built by our leisured and fortunate ancestors - people who had time to cultivate art, architecture and complex ritual, before the traumas of agriculture ruined their lifestyle, and devastated their paradise.

It's a stunning and seductive idea. Yet it has a sinister epilogue. Because the loss of paradise seems to have had a strange and darkening effect on the human mind.

A few years ago, archaeologists at nearby Cayonu unearthed a hoard of human skulls. They were found under an altar-like slab, stained with human blood.

No one is sure, but this may be the earliest evidence for human sacrifice: one of the most inexplicable of human behaviours and one that could have evolved only in the face of terrible societal stress.

Experts may argue over the evidence at Cayonu. But what no one denies is that human sacrifice took place in this region, spreading to Palestine, Canaan and Israel.

Archaeological evidence suggests that victims were killed in huge death pits, children were buried alive in jars, others roasted in vast bronze bowls.

These are almost incomprehensible acts, unless you understand that the people had learned to fear their gods, having been cast out of paradise. So they sought to propitiate the angry heavens.

This savagery may, indeed, hold the key to one final, bewildering mystery. The astonishing stones and friezes of Gobekli Tepe are preserved intact for a bizarre reason.

Long ago, the site was deliberately and systematically buried in a feat of labour every bit as remarkable as the stone carvings.

http://www.dailymail...arden-Eden.html



+++++



The history of Şanlıurfa is recorded from the 4th century BC, but may date back to 9000 BC, when there is ample evidence for the surrounding sites at Duru, Harran and Nevali Cori. It was one of several cities in the Euphrates-Tigris basin, the cradle of the Mesopotamian civilization. According to Turkish Muslim traditions Urfa (its name since Byzantine days) is the biblical city of Ur of the Chaldees, due to its proximity to the biblical village of Harran.

http://en.wikipedia....&#382;anlıurfa


+++++


Harran seems to have been the home of Abram (Gen 12:1,4), not Ur, though Ur, according to Cyrus Gordon, was the nearby town later called Edessa (Urfa) but which was called Urfu, at that time, not the Ur near the junction of the two rivers much further south. Apollonius Molo, even in the first century BC, tells a different story about the origin of Abraham from Genesis. The Patriarch was born in the mountainous edges of Syria, fringing on the northern steppes, after his ancestors had fled from Armenia. This description fits the same place—it is the neighbourhood of Urfa and Harran, a place known as Beth Eden (Bit Adini)! Biblicists have always know where Eden was, but they did not care to say.

http://www.askwhy.co...Patriarchs1.php



From a link at the and of that page:

Prominent atheist Richard Dawkins and Britain’s Chief Rabbi Jonathan Sacks met in an hour-long debate on science and religion, as part of the Re:Think Festival in Salford.

“How do you decide which bits [of scripture] are symbolic and which bits are not?” asked Prof Dawkins at one point during the discussion.

“Very simple,” replied the Chief Rabbi.

“The rabbis in the 10th century laid down the following principle: if a biblical narrative is incompatible with established scientific fact, it is not to be read literally.”

Christians take note. The Old Testament is the scripture of Jews. Maybe the Rabbis can be expected to know it better than TV evangelicals.

http://mikemagee.wordpress.com/


Edited by Abramelin, 22 February 2013 - 05:29 PM.


#65    White Crane Feather

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 06:30 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 22 February 2013 - 05:12 PM, said:



You mean the Mount Toba eruption around 75,000 BP.

Yeah, it appears humans almost died out.
That would be it. About as close to the Noah story as we're going to get I think.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#66    White Crane Feather

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 06:32 PM

Yes The bible does seem to be hinting at switch from hunter gatherer lifestyle to an agragarian one and the problems it brings. There are references to god not really likeing the ground and agriculture.

I think it's self evident that there was no biblical Adam. The name means "man of the earth" in original oral traditions it could very well of been referencing people of he earth meaning people that still live traditional hunter gathers lifestyles. There are many references to native Americans being "people of the earth".

Edited by Seeker79, 22 February 2013 - 06:35 PM.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#67    Frank Merton

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 06:50 PM

"If a scripture is not compatible with established fact, then it is not to be taken literally."

That is helpful:   how about a few more:

If a scripture portrays God as a monster, then it is not to be taken literally.
If a scripture portrays God as petty or jealous or greedy or vain or revengeful or untruthful or untrustworthy, and so on, then it is not to be taken literally.
If a scripture is not compatible with ordinary reason, then it is not to be taken literally.
If a scripture is not compatible with known or reasonable history, then it is not to be taken literally.
If a scripture is not compatible with fundamental morality, then it is not to be taken literally.

Do we have any scripture left that we can take literally?


#68    Everdred

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 01:04 AM

Noah's flood was Utnapishtim's flood, and Utnapishtim's flood was Atrahasis' flood, and Atrahasis' flood was just a really destructive river flood.


#69    Abramelin

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 08:07 PM

View PostSeeker79, on 22 February 2013 - 06:30 PM, said:

That would be it. About as close to the Noah story as we're going to get I think.

Nah.

You really think that something that happened 75,000 years ago would have been saved in legends or something?

I think the 2800 BCE event, the possible impact of a meteorite in the Indian Ocean is the best candidate.


#70    Copen

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 02:39 AM

There is no such thing as going back to the original Hebrew. That's because God gave the inspired word and it was not to show corruption. After use when the scrolls were showing wear, they were to be buried, (not stored in clay jars), so that they would completely disintegrate. When Jesus came there were no Hebrew Bibles. The civilized world had become Greek speaking. The Septuagint (Greek translation) was the only Bible the New Testament Christians had.

Jesus stated the kingdom of heaven on earth would be leavened in three measures of meal til the whole was leavened. Meal is the kingdom of heaven in the inspired word spreading into three languages: (Just like the sign over his head on the cross) written in Greek, Latin, and Hebrew.

Another apostle's narrative says the sign was written in: Hebrew, Greek and Latin.  And that is the original path the word inspired by God was translated. It began in Hebrew. But the spreading of the kingdom of heaven did not begin with the Hebrew. It began in the Greek and traveled to the Old Latin Vulgate (not to be confused with Origen's Latin Vulgate some 300 years later). The last leavened will be a translation into Hebrew.  

So there is no need to go to the Hebrew. Start with the Greek.

There are keys to understanding the Bible. God gave them to Peter. With these keys what he discovered would bind and loose truths. You don't have to go to so many resources. Those several keys have been given to us in the Bible. When you realize that God gives or says or does everything twice in the Bible for our strong consolation, it will open many doors of our understanding.

God created male and female. Later Day Eight, God created Man Adam and Woman. God created two special trees. Adam committed two sins before anyone had eaten the fruit. When they ate the fruit they gain knowledge of good and evil. The serpent was cursed above every animal and beast. All creation was not cursed. A serpent is still cursed by man more than every animal and beast of the field. The ground by Adam's sake where the tree with the sinful serpent was cursed. How appropriate that that same piece of cursed ground is where Jesus died on a cursed tree for the sins of His predestined elect people.

Watch the paths repeated over and over in the Bible. That gives confirmation. Adam was created one place and then placed east in the garden. All the earth was still in one clump. Israel and the Garden of Eden, (Jerusalem), were east from God's viewpoint. When Abraham went down to Egypt, he came up on the eastern side of the Jordan and crossed over the Jordan to enter Canaan. When Moses brought the Israelites out of Egypt, they were on the eastern side of the Jordan and crossed over the Jordan to enter Canaan. When Jesus began His ministry, (a priest had to be washed by a priest to begin his ministry), Jesus was baptized by John "beyond the Jordan." He crossed over the Jordan and began preaching. ALWAYS FROM THE EAST GOING TOWARD THE WEST.

When Paul started preaching, he intended to go toward the east -- toward Asia. The Holy Spirit told him not to go that direction  --  to go toward the west. That way the gospel has traveled and will end up where it started -- in Genesis --- in Israel.

These patterns give a pretty good clue that Adam was created beyond the Jordan and crossed the Jordan and placed westward in the field and the Garden. Maps show a site called Adam just beyond the Jordan. Makes me think that is where the finger of God scooped out clay and molded Man Adam like a potter that makes one lump into a vessel of honor and another vessel unto dishonor. I have no scripture to support the belief that Adam was created there; and I know I do not need to go to other resources to try to prove what the scriptures do not. I have to find two things in the Bible to point to that conclusion before I can use it for proof. So it is just my belief --- nothing more.

By the way, according to the Bible. Adam was never a hunter. He was a farmer, tilling soil to grow grain. His son, Cain, followed after his father. He was a farmer. His only brother, Abel, was a sheperd. Cain was like a priest - (the inspired word is symbolized by grain & meal). It takes oxen to till fields. They were supposed to sacrifice their best. Abel sacrificed a lamb. But Cain gave his own version of the word which was corrupt, the work of his prideful hands.

When a sacrifice was given at the alter, pigeons or doves were killed on the eastern side of the alter. Sheep or goats were killed on the northern side of the alter. Oxen were killed on the western side of the alter. Between the alter and the door into the tabernale was the laver or word of God. God said Cain's sin was between the alter and the door. Cain did not give his best - an oxen.

I've got to go. I could go on and on --- my favorite subject.
May God bless us to find Peter's keys and open our understanding of the Bible.


#71    Copen

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 12:44 AM

I'm glad you asked. Look up on the internet or most any genetic study book in a book store and you will come across something called a Punnett square. Christian teachers are particularily fond of using this table to show how diverse skin colors can have come about in a few generations.

Punnett's square shows:
1. Three genes control the synthesis of melanin, (skin color). Each gene has two alleles for skin color. The formular is ABC representing very dark skin color and abc representing light skin color. An offspring inherits an equal number of three genes from each parent. So by mixing these ABC and abc matches it shows how differenting amounts of dark genes with light genes can produce diverse skin color of offsprings.

2. But if you study Punnett's square closely, you should notice that the ABC parent with the ABC parent only has an offspring of ABC genes. That's because the offspring inherits an equal amount from each parents and there are no abc genes to inherit. Thus proving that the very dark tribes who have been isolated (probably intentionally by God to prove this very point) only get lighter with introduction of lighter gene parent.

3. Here is something else to consider. When Eva was created she wasn't spoken into being like the Gentiles of Day Six. She wasn't molded out of red clay like Man Adam on Day Eight. She was taken from Adam's rib while he slept (which is a foreshadow of the church coming out of Jesus' side while He was dead - sleep being used in the Bible for death)- - - -
Sorry, I got off the subject but the Bible is so facinating for it's foreshadows such as this foreshadow of Adam and Eva for Jesus and the church - - - - and this before Eva had drawn her first breath.

The Bible says Eva was Adam's flesh and bone. Blood is manufactured in the bones. Therefore, Eva was the first clone. She had no earthly father and mother and did not come from a combination of egg and seed. Now, go back to Punnett's square. Eva had Adam's exact same DNA. I find no combination of ABC with abc that produces AABBCC very black offspring.
There is also a picture of twins born of which one is very light and the other is dark (not very dark, but dark). Christian teachers use this case as an example of how very dark and very light skin color offspring can come about from just two parents. What they hope is that you are opening your mouth and swallowing whatever they shovel out. The one parent was dark and the other was white. Which proves the point again if you have your brain in gear. Only through introduction of a different skin color does that change.

By the way, did you also notice that Adam had no earth father. That makes that aspect of Adam a foreshadow of Jesus who had no earthly father.
Ain't the Bible great????? It's balance and keys are fascinating and foreshadows and patterns just keep opening understandings of more and more of the Bible.

Here's a little something you might enjoy meditating on:
Look at the patterns God uses in the Bible. One pattern is that God always chose the 2nd of everything. He chose the 2nd Man - Adam the first Jew; the 2nd son, Abel, the 2nd son, Joseph (the 1st son of the 2nd wife was considered to be the 2nd son), the 2nd son, Moses; the 2nd king, David; the 2nd Kingdom, Judah; the 2nd tabernacle in the wilderness; the 2nd Temple - Zerubbabel's (NOT HEROD'S); the 2nd invisible church on earth (Adam to Moses and now the invisible New Testament church); and on and on.

Abraham being the only exception; but he is such a father symbol (father of nations - spiritual father) that he is a foreshadow of God the Father of whom there is no other.
God bless us all is my prayer.





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