A video some people might not like

[hetrodoxly]

You might not agree with her, but you've got to admit she's brave.

http://www.memritv.org/search.asp?ACT=S9&P1=1050#

[Imaginary Friend]

Don't I just love it when I have to "Download player" just to see something like this. Uh, no.

That's why I wewe love that site link for providing a printed transcript so I can still understand what this woman is talking about;

2/21/2006 Clip No. 1050

Arab-American Psychiatrist Wafa Sultan: There is No Clash of Civilizations but a Clash between the Mentality of the Middle Ages and That of the 21st Century

Following are excerpts from an interview with Arab-American psychiatrist Wafa Sultan. The interview was aired on Al-Jazeera TV on February 21, 2006

.

Wafa Sultan: The clash we are witnessing around the world is not a clash of religions, or a clash of civilizations. It is a clash between two opposites, between two eras. It is a clash between a mentality that belongs to the Middle Ages and another mentality that belongs to the 21st century. It is a clash between civilization and backwardness, between the civilized and the primitive, between barbarity and rationality. It is a clash between freedom and oppression, between democracy and dictatorship. It is a clash between human rights, on the one hand, and the violation of these rights, on other hand. It is a clash between those who treat women like beasts, and those who treat them like human beings. What we see today is not a clash of civilizations. Civilizations do not clash, but compete.

[...]

Host: I understand from your words that what is happening today is a clash between the culture of the West, and the backwardness and ignorance of the Muslims?

Wafa Sultan: Yes, that is what I mean.

[...]

Host: Who came up with the concept of a clash of civilizations? Was it not Samuel Huntington? It was not Bin Laden. I would like to discuss this issue, if you don't mind...

Wafa Sultan: The Muslims are the ones who began using this expression. The Muslims are the ones who began the clash of civilizations. The Prophet of Islam said: "I was ordered to fight the people until they believe in Allah and His Messenger." When the Muslims divided the people into Muslims and non-Muslims, and called to fight the others until they believe in what they themselves believe, they started this clash, and began this war. In order to stop this war, they must reexamine their Islamic books and curricula, which are full of calls for takfir and fighting the infidels.

My colleague has said that he never offends other people's beliefs. What civilization on the face of this earth allows him to call other people by names that they did not choose for themselves? Once, he calls them Ahl Al-Dhimma, another time he calls them the "People of the Book," and yet another time he compares them to apes and pigs, or he calls the Christians "those who incur Allah's wrath." Who told you that they are "People of the Book"? They are not the People of the Book, they are people of many books. All the useful scientific books that you have today are theirs, the fruit of their free and creative thinking. What gives you the right to call them "those who incur Allah's wrath," or "those who have gone astray," and then come here and say that your religion commands you to refrain from offending the beliefs of others?

I am not a Christian, a Muslim, or a Jew. I am a secular human being. I do not believe in the supernatural, but I respect others' right to believe in it.

Dr. Ibrahim Al-Khouli: Are you a heretic?

Wafa Sultan: You can say whatever you like. I am a secular human being who does not believe in the supernatural...

Dr. Ibrahim Al-Khouli: If you are a heretic, there is no point in rebuking you, since you have blasphemed against Islam, the Prophet, and the Koran...

Wafa Sultan: These are personal matters that do not concern you.

[...]

Wafa Sultan: Brother, you can believe in stones, as long as you don't throw them at me. You are free to worship whoever you want, but other people's beliefs are not your concern, whether they believe that the Messiah is God, son of Mary, or that Satan is God, son of Mary. Let people have their beliefs.

[...]

Wafa Sultan: The Jews have come from the tragedy (of the Holocaust), and forced the world to respect them, with their knowledge, not with their terror, with their work, not their crying and yelling. Humanity owes most of the discoveries and science of the 19th and 20th centuries to Jewish scientists. 15 million people, scattered throughout the world, united and won their rights through work and knowledge. We have not seen a single Jew blow himself up in a German restaurant. We have not seen a single Jew destroy a church. We have not seen a single Jew protest by killing people. The Muslims have turned three Buddha statues into rubble. We have not seen a single Buddhist burn down a Mosque, kill a Muslim, or burn down an embassy. Only the Muslims defend their beliefs by burning down churches, killing people, and destroying embassies. This path will not yield any results. The Muslims must ask themselves what they can do for humankind, before they demand that humankind respect them.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I applaud her strength. Especially interesting in this exchange was the accusatory tone of her "opponent", in the discussion; "Are you a heretic?" Asked because she dared to think and speak against the "traditional" consciousness that is exhibited by both sides in this conflict.

Reminds me of this forum, when someone that is not mainstream dares speak against the tide and immediately attacked on a personal level. Microcosm/macrocosm. What a beautiful world to teach us how far we've come and yet how far we have to go in matters of politics, god/dess and finding peace in ourselves before we ever witness it alive in the world we all share.

[samanthauk23]

That is one very cool lady!!!!!

[Pax Unum]

I hope she survives, if more in the ME thought like her we would all be better off... it comes down to tolerance doesn't it?

[Jodie.Lynne]

Agred Pax, but just to point out:

The Middle East DOES NOT have a monopoly on intolerance.

If more people around the world would be more concerned about what they themselves do rather than worry about what others do or believe, the world would be better off.

[The Dark Knight 77]

mm mm good, lol i think truth hurts haha, that was really a brave and truthfull woman, i also was not surprised by the fact that the muslim man had nothing to say but condemn her and call her a blasphemer and enemy of the muslim faith lol wow, o well all i can say is shes right Edit; removed crude analogy.

Edited August 13, 2006 by Magikman

[IcarusSolo]

Ehhh..... I'm not quite so sure.

They are living in the same era as us.

You'd have to be completely stupid to say otherwise

Every other post I see on this board is a bash to Islam.

Who is anyone to say what is right for others.

I'll laugh when Allah exiles all christians, catholics, etc.

Even if Jesus was real he was just a prophet like Muhammad.

She is a disgrace to her ancestors and family.

Screw human/civil rights.

1000's of years of tradition aren't meant to be broken.

She needs to know her place.

Edited August 13, 2006 by IcarusSolo

[MadMachine]

Thousands of years of tradition aren't meant to be broken? That's the funniest thing I've read in a while...

I believe she does know her place. She's a human being. We're all in the same place.

[chaoszerg]

Ehhh..... I'm not quite so sure.

They are living in the same era as us.

You'd have to be completely stupid to say otherwise

Every other post I see on this board is a bash to Islam.

Who is anyone to say what is right for others.

I'll laugh when Allah exiles all christians, catholics, etc.

Even if Jesus was real he was just a prophet like Muhammad.

She is a disgrace to her ancestors and family.

Screw human/civil rights.

1000's of years of tradition aren't meant to be broken.

She needs to know her place.

Being tied down to the past and tradition in my opinion seems silly it's best to live for the moment and look at what you want to achieve in the future.

[MadMachine]

I just got around to watching a clip. That lady has a really good head on her shoulders. I agree completely with every point she makes. The guy she seemed to be debating with later on? He called her a heretic and as far as I can tell, refused to consider anything she was saying other than her "admission to heresy." The points that woman argues are so painfully true, I can see why they refuse to listen or seriously consider.

[IcarusSolo]

And again I'm not religious but

I'm going to laugh if and when we

have to face Allah for our heresy & blasphemy.

[Night Star]

Thousands of years of tradition aren't meant to be broken? That's the funniest thing I've read in a while...

I believe she does know her place. She's a human being. We're all in the same place.

Bravo MadMachine!

[MadMachine]

And again I'm not religious but

I'm going to laugh if and when we

have to face Allah for our heresy & blasphemy.

Not the most optimistic among us, now are you?

Work for the betterment and happiness of yourself and your fellow human beings, disregard ancient superstitions until you die; because we will never know until we die. That is merely my suggestion to you and anyone else who doesn't already follow that path. Whether you take that suggestion or not is of no concern to me. None at all.

Peace.

[hetrodoxly]

Ehhh..... I'm not quite so sure.

They are living in the same era as us.

You'd have to be completely stupid to say otherwise

Every other post I see on this board is a bash to Islam.

Who is anyone to say what is right for others.

I'll laugh when Allah exiles all christians, catholics, etc.

Even if Jesus was real he was just a prophet like Muhammad.

She is a disgrace to her ancestors and family.

Screw human/civil rights.

1000's of years of tradition aren't meant to be broken.

She needs to know her place.

What place would that be?

I suppose you could call me a heretic, i'm a lapsed catholic, i hope i do meet Allah when i die, so i can spit in his face just after i've punched god on the nose.

[IcarusSolo]

Sarcasm out.

Understand the beliefs of the muslims who do think that.

Understand both sides.

Then if you still have the same Ideals, so be it.

[Luziadus]

Ehhh..... I'm not quite so sure.

They are living in the same era as us.

You'd have to be completely stupid to say otherwise

Every other post I see on this board is a bash to Islam.

Who is anyone to say what is right for others.

I'll laugh when Allah exiles all christians, catholics, etc.

Even if Jesus was real he was just a prophet like Muhammad.

She is a disgrace to her ancestors and family.

Screw human/civil rights.

1000's of years of tradition aren't meant to be broken.

She needs to know her place.

If I could I would destroy every religions so its seems to be the only way to end all this diference between everyone by each one showing what is better or not,so the solution is to disappear all religions of the world and making a place united for independent beliefs,without conflits or clashs of the religions.

So anyone couldn't laugh to anyone thinking their beliefs being superior to other.

Every beliefs since Christian to Islamic passing to Judaism and Budhism and others should be banned in the world,and could start now.

I'm tired of all this bulls*** beliefs I never saw a God or a profet or a miracle,so if the people believe in this things then keep it into themselfs and dont bother the others like me who wants to live in peace without conflicts.

Edited August 14, 2006 by Endymion

[Grandpa Greenman]

She is a disgrace to her ancestors and family.

Screw human/civil rights.

1000's of years of tradition aren't meant to be broken.

She needs to know her place.

IcarusSolo, You are an American and you can say this? :angry2: You wonder why we dislike you religion and don't want to read your book. A 10,000 years will not wipe away the blood spilt by Abraham's bloody children. A 1000 years is nothing compared to history of mankind. Traditions come and go. A time will come when the people of the Earth will grow tired of your insanity and free themselves of your chains of hate. This woman knows her place, do you? Have you read the Constitution?

Sorry Mods sometimes I just have to spit. I am a Pagan and under my religion I must be tolerant, and I was born an American and under Constitution I must respect his right to say what he thinks, but to read a statement by an American to “Screw human/civil rights” is more than I can take, them’s fightin words. I draw my sword, sir, in the name of Thomas Jefferson.

[+Link of Hyrule]

Sorry Mods sometimes I just have to spit.

Don't worry Darkwind, I was about to say much to the same effect. IcarusSolo, there's no need to offend every free-being on Earth about tradition. If we were going by tradition, then blacks would still be slaves, the world would still be flat, and we'd probably all have died of Malaria or the Black Plague, or some other illness by now.

Freedom of speech - it's a wonderful thing. Except for those who pretend not to be religious but preach their Faith in every thread they go to. In future, please try to convey your opinion in a non-offensive manner. Thank you.

Regards, PA

Edited August 14, 2006 by Paranoid Android

[IcarusSolo]

If we were going by tradition, then blacks would still be slaves, the world would still be flat, and we'd probably all have died of Malaria or the Black Plague, or some other illness by now.

Freedom of speech - it's a wonderful thing. Except for those who pretend not to be religious but preach their Faith in every thread they go to. In future, please try to convey your opinion in a non-offensive manner. Thank you.

Regards, PA

I don't have a problem with slaves.

We should have never had slaves in the first place.

Although FREE slaves bit America in the a$$

and have been causing the decline of American society ever since.

(our own fault)

Freedom of speech also applies to things you don't want to hear either.

Tradition is great. You can improve on tradition too.

Not throw it all down the drain. (Metaphorically Speaking)

And I'll stand by it again.

I'm agnostic but at least I take time to undestand religion. (Any Denomination)

Edited August 14, 2006 by IcarusSolo

[Poetic Reven]

I don't have a problem with slaves.

We should have never had slaves in the first place.

Although FREE slaves bit America in the a$$

and have been causing the decline of American society ever since.

(our own fault)

Freedom of speech also applies to things you don't want to hear either. So deal with it.

Tradition is great. You can improve on tradition too.

Not throw it all down the drain. (Metaphorically Speaking)

And I'll stand by it again.

I'm agnostic but at least I take time to undestand religion. (Any Denomination)

Your problem seems to be that you are so sure that your the only user on UM that understands multiple religions. And, as for slaves being the decline of american society, one must ask if IT WAS THE SLAVES CHOICE. And, if someone doesn't want to follow tradition, then let them be. If we had followed traditions ever since they were first put into play, then we would all evidently act/be the same.

[IcarusSolo]

Thats what I'm saying.

Slaves were our ~removed crude language~.

I was was just defending the fact that I'm not religious.

I know people here who have extensive knowledge about religion.

I do not claim to be the only.

In future, please do not try getting around the language filters. They are there for a reason. This is a family oriented forum - we have young people reading this as well. Thank you - PA

Edited August 14, 2006 by Paranoid Android

[samanthauk23]

She is a disgrace to her ancestors and family.

Screw human/civil rights.

1000's of years of tradition aren't meant to be broken.

She needs to know her place.

LOLOL! I laughed so hard a bit of pee came out!*wipes tears of mirth away*

Oh, you were serious?? Riiiight!

Edited August 14, 2006 by samanthauk23

[chaoszerg]

LOLOL! I laughed so hard a bit of pee came out!*wipes tears of mirth away*

..THAT....was.............just wrong *shudders*

Anyway lol what that woman said was right.

[samanthauk23]

..THAT....was.............just wrong *shudders*

Anyway lol what that woman said was right.

Yeah, that's what I was getting at!

[Grandpa Greenman]

Although FREE slaves bit America in the a$$

and have been causing the decline of American society ever since.

The main drag on our society are bigots, not their victims.