"Terrorist Plots, Hatched by the F.B.I."

[Baz Dane]

Here we go again

While I'm not surprised, nor should anyone be, that U.S. government agencies are listening in and have a special interest in spying on would-be possible terrorist activity, what I am surprised by is the lengths they go to in some cases to encourage people to commit terrorist acts, even providing plans, "bombs", offers of big money and more, on top of lots of prompting and encouragement.

Some call it "entrapment", while others defend it as ways to prevent future attacks.

I wonder if this sort of activity has, or will in the future, result in a real terrorist attack which might not have happened otherwise.

April 28, 2012

New York Times

Terrorist Plots, Hatched by the F.B.I.

- THE United States has been narrowly saved from lethal terrorist plots in recent years — or so it has seemed. A would-be suicide bomber was intercepted on his way to the Capitol; a scheme to bomb synagogues and shoot Stinger missiles at military aircraft was developed by men in Newburgh, N.Y.; and a fanciful idea to fly explosive-laden model planes into the Pentagon and the Capitol was hatched in Massachusetts.

Source - http://www.nytimes.c...wanted=all&_r=0

Here's a more recent article on the topic and some more insight into the James Cromitie case...

March 11, 2013

The Buisiness Insider

The FBI Goes To Disturbing Lengths To Set Up Potential Terrorists

- The Federal Bureau of Investigation has busted an impressive number of homegrown terror plots over the past decade, but many people don't realize how these plots materialize. In some cases, they are hatched not from a cave-dwelling fanatic, but actually from the Bureau itself.

Source - http://www.businessi...r-plots-2013-3

Edited January 5, 2015 by Saru
Reduced length of quoted material

[Baz Dane]

November 30, 2010

CBS News

- Mohamed O. Mohamud appeared to have discovered an unusually compassionate pair of terrorists.

- At a hotel in downtown Portland, Oregon, in July, the two undercover FBI agents listened as Mohamud explained his dream of detonating a car bomb during the city's Christmas celebration. They offered to help, if Mohamud was sure he wanted to go through with it.

Source - http://www.cbsnews.c...-or-prevention/

The FBI and Counter Terrorism officials make a good point in that they are maybe heading off possible terrorists before they get trained by a real terrorist.

At the same time though, who's to say that some of their methods wouldn't have the same affect on some of America's inner city disgruntled younger generation.

I would imagine that it would be pretty easy, with the constant prodding and encouragement from an acting "agent/informer", to convince a mixed up, disgruntled 21yr old kid to do something rather atrocious, especially with a great reward being offered in the aftermath.

It would appear though that the authorities mostly use this form of "entrapment", when applied to terrorism, on people of Islamic faith.

Something I question is that if the FBI are doing these kind of operations within the borders of the United States... where they are more readily monitored to follow the laws and guidelines... I wonder what kind of operations the CIA are doing around the world using a similar MO, but with much less scrutiny and restrictions, and with certainly much more secrecy?

Edited January 5, 2015 by Saru
Reduced length of quoted material

[Baz Dane]

Claims of the FBI involved in 1993 World Trade Center Bombing

- Emad A. Salem is an FBI informant, who was a key witness in the trial of Ramzi Yousef, Abdul Hakim Murad, and Wali Khan Amin Shah, convicted in the World Trade Center Bombing of February 26, 1993.

- After the bombing, Salem stated that the FBI knew about the bombing plot, and agreed to foil it by supplying fake explosives to him. Salem taped his telephone conversations with FBI agents. Those tapes were provided to defense lawyers, although they were not used in the trial. In December 1993, James M. Fox, the head of the FBI's New York Office, denied that the FBI had any foreknowledge of the attacks.

Source - http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Emad_Salem

- In the course of the trial it was revealed that the FBI had an informant, a former Egyptian army officer named Emad Salem. Salem claims to have informed the FBI of the plot to build a bomb that would eventually be used in the World Trade Center towers as early as February 6, 1992. Salem's role as informant allowed the FBI to quickly pinpoint the conspirators out of hundreds of possible suspects. The transcripts do not make clear the extent to which Federal Authorities knew that there was a plan to bomb the World Trade Center, merely that a bombing of some sort was being discussed.

Source - http://en.wikipedia....FBI_involvement

Combined report by Paul DeRienzo, Frank Morales and Chris Flash From newspaper The Shadow Oct. 1994/Jan. 1995 Issue

- Two cassette tape recordings, obtained by SHADOW reporter Paul DiRienzo of telephone conversations between FBI informant Emad Salem and his Bureau contacts reveal secret U.S. Government complicity in the February 26, 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center in New York City in which six people were killed and more than a thousand were injured.

Source - http://www.lectlaw.com/files/cur46.htm

So, from what I can gather, from either conclusion concerning Emad Salem, is that the FBI knew about the plot to bomb the WTC in advance, and did nothing to prevent it from happening? And according to Salem, documented in a taped conversation with FBI agent John Anticev, the FBI were in on it and and even supervised the bomb being made, to which agent Anticev didn't deny, in responding to Salem's remarks.

Interesting.

One thing I do notice though is this story sounds eerily similar to the kind of operations documented in the posted news articles above.

While I'm not advocating the FBI or other agencies definitely have taken part in "Islamic" terrorist attacks(perhaps they have?), but it seems to me that this style of coordinating and encouraging "possible" terrorists to do things leaves the door open for the possibility?

The possibility that a certain agency first creates a scenario, encourages the participants, then realizes execution of the attack would actually help them along in some other related operation, so therefore does nothing to prevent the attack from happening. Then in the aftermath, they go and apprehend the "terrorists"(or kill them) and cover up any evidence of agency involvement in the planning of the attack.

So basically, were that scenario were to play out, that particular agency would have in fact committed the terrorist act themselves.

Knowing the FBI engages in these kind of operations(encouraging people to commit an attack, and planning, funding, supporting it etc), while equally knowing that both the FBI and the CIA have a long history of hiding evidence and covering evidence up for their own needs(and that of others), how can we the public be 100% certain that any certain successful terrorist attack was strictly the result of planning, by only Islamic fanatics, on their own, with no further involvement from outside parties?

I fully agree with monitoring and surveillancing and gathering of evidence of what might be future terrorists.

I don't think I agree so much with encouraging, funding, supplying of evidence etc, to what might be, future terrorists.

Edited January 5, 2015 by Saru
Reduced length of quoted material

[toyomotor]

The frightening thing about the USA is that the people have no idea what plots are being hatched in their name by the Intelligence Agencies.

Even more frightening is the fact that the US government doesn't know either.

[preacherman76]

Great thread Lem. You might wanna look into the underwear bomber as well. Witness testimony says he somehow got on a plane with no passport, nor any security check, and who was on the no fly list. US government later admitted they allowed him on the plane despite all this. In turn the US and others bought the naked body scanner's that happened to have been already made and ready to go.

edit to add- the kids Father even called homeland security I believe a couple weeks before hand to tell them his son was a possible threat.

Edited January 5, 2015 by preacherman76

[Raptor Witness]

The frightening thing about the USA is that the people have no idea what plots are being hatched in their name by the Intelligence Agencies.

Even more frightening is the fact that the US government doesn't know either.

The weaponization of the data being gathered is a story that needs to be told.

It must be told or the Republic is dead.

[Empty Garden]

Great thread Lem. You might wanna look into the underwear bomber as well. Witness testimony says he somehow got on a plane with no passport, nor any security check, and who was on the no fly list. US government later admitted they allowed him on the plane despite all this. In turn the US and others bought the naked body scanner's that happened to have been already made and ready to go.

edit to add- the kids Father even called homeland security I believe a couple weeks before hand to tell them his son was a possible threat.

That story of the underwear bomber, or maybe the shoe bomber, it was the one around a christmas date, was very suspicious. The testimony of the husband and wife from the US was really interesting, but slipped right under the radar for the most part. They did tell their story on the MSM, thank goodness, or we would know nothing about it.

Special handling for the bomber at the Amsterdam airport. No passport, no papers, but his handler in a business suit managed to get him on the flight.

FBI or CIA, who knows? Maybe Mossad?

[DONTEATUS]

Its all very sad that people can see all these possible choices of action,yet miss the bottom line every time. The Bad guys are going to be Bad guys. somebody has to catch them. and some times we miss the chance. Now how would you go about catching all the bad guys. Knowing that some of them have been on both sides ?

Does it mean never getting onto a plane? Never going to a large mass gathering of people?

I don't live in fear, nor believe that dark groups are running things in governments. Its a hand full of nutcases ! Lets get them Please ! Its seems like we could take out a few thousand of these people quite easy. I bet the World would be a lot better off !

And don't get me started on the Religions ! That's aas bad as the Terrorist !

Remember that they teach young kids that you will burn in Hell if you don't have Your Religion ! What a World ! What a World !

[preacherman76]

People who commit the crime of entrapment are just as much criminals as any of them.

[DONTEATUS]

People who commit the crime of entrapment are just as much criminals as any of them.

Key word there "entrapment" As In All religions !

Just IMO

[Empty Garden]

Its all very sad that people can see all these possible choices of action,yet miss the bottom line every time. The Bad guys are going to be Bad guys. somebody has to catch them. and some times we miss the chance. Now how would you go about catching all the bad guys. Knowing that some of them have been on both sides ?

Does it mean never getting onto a plane? Never going to a large mass gathering of people?

I don't live in fear, nor believe that dark groups are running things in governments. Its a hand full of nutcases ! Lets get them Please ! Its seems like we could take out a few thousand of these people quite easy. I bet the World would be a lot better off !

And don't get me started on the Religions ! That's aas bad as the Terrorist !

Remember that they teach young kids that you will burn in Hell if you don't have Your Religion ! What a World ! What a World !

What happens when the bad guys work for some intelligence agency?

[Obviousman]

We haven't had so many shark sightings since.... hell, over 10 years and probably much longer.

http://www.smh.com.au/environment/animals/manly-beach-cleared-after-shark-sighting-20150118-12sons.html

Isn't someone going to claim these so-called "sharks" are really false flag operations by the Australian security organisations in order to provoke a war on sharks?

[Frank Merton]

I think "entrapment" is a legitimate police activity in many situations. For example I rather like the idea of the police leaving an unlocked car with the keys visible out on the street in neighborhoods where cars are often stolen, especially because someone dumb enough to fall for that needs to be put away anyway, for their own protection.

[DONTEATUS]

Go See "American Sniper"

[Zalmoxis]

That is great. Kudos to those who participated in killing evil.

[aquatus1]

I tend to feel less sympathy for the "victims" of entrapment when it turns out they aren't innocent, starry-eyed 15-year old kids making the stupid decisions kids make, but rather adults, making stupid decisions they are fully responsible for making.

[Border Collie]

That story of the underwear bomber, or maybe the shoe bomber, it was the one around a christmas date, was very suspicious. The testimony of the husband and wife from the US was really interesting, but slipped right under the radar for the most part. They did tell their story on the MSM, thank goodness, or we would know nothing about it.

Special handling for the bomber at the Amsterdam airport. No passport, no papers, but his handler in a business suit managed to get him on the flight.

FBI or CIA, who knows? Maybe Mossad?

The underpants bomber was Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab. (Northwest from Amsterdam)

The shoebomber was Richard Reid. (American from CDG Paris.)

[regeneratia]

No surprise here. Us "conspiracy theorists" have known it for quite some time.

Edited March 31, 2015 by regeneratia

[regeneratia]

I tend to feel less sympathy for the "victims" of entrapment when it turns out they aren't innocent, starry-eyed 15-year old kids making the stupid decisions kids make, but rather adults, making stupid decisions they are fully responsible for making.

And abetted by the law enforcement agencies themselves. Since we KNOW that there are felons within the walls of these less-than-honorable agecies, it stands to reason that there is not a law the officers will not break, since we found out about the the illegal wire tappings, resulting in the DOJ forcing The US Congress to protect them from prosecution via congressional bills,... retroactively.

I demand the criminal aspects of these agencies to end or see massive defunding.

Edited March 31, 2015 by regeneratia

[regeneratia]

What happens when the bad guys work for some intelligence agency?

You call your Congresspersons, asking to defund those intelligence agencies until the criminality is purged from the agency. Demand defunding. They cannot do anything without our money, unless they are making so much money from illegal drugs sales.

Aquatus, no one in this world is innocent anymore. We are all considered terrorists by those criminal agencies.

Edited April 1, 2015 by regeneratia

[DONTEATUS]

We are never going to change the Greed in our Governments !

[preacherman76]

I tend to feel less sympathy for the "victims" of entrapment when it turns out they aren't innocent, starry-eyed 15-year old kids making the stupid decisions kids make, but rather adults, making stupid decisions they are fully responsible for making.

Yeah Im sure they were hoping most folks would feel that way, but entrapment is still a crime. Its even worse when its used to keep the idea alive that terrorist could kill us all at any moment. In turn insuring that billions of tax payer dollars flow to their obviously unnecessary departments.

[preacherman76]

We are never going to change the Greed in our Governments !

Damn it DON, just when I thought Id never agree with a single thing you would ever say, you go an say something like this.

Well said Sir.

[frenat]

Yeah Im sure they were hoping most folks would feel that way, but entrapment is still a crime.

Yes, but is it really entrapment when they would have tried to do it anyway?

In criminal law, entrapment is a practice whereby a law enforcement agent induces a person to commit a criminal offense that the person would have otherwise been unlikely to commit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entrapment

[preacherman76]

Yes, but is it really entrapment when they would have tried to do it anyway?

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http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Entrapment

Most of these cases no one planned to do anything at all. The 5 guys from Newburgh never had any plan. They were approached by the FBI. They were given the whole plan, and what they thought was materials to accomplish the job by the FBI, and were promised to be rich if they accomplished the plot.

I can only think of one recent case where there was reason to believe said person was actually dangerous. Every other one was a clear case of entrapment