Flight 9525

[SamWhiteHopi]

After taking a look at the few photos available of the debris of Flight 9525 it is obvious this plane did not crash into these inaccessible alps in the way described. I had hoped to post four more pictures but the files too large.

When the plane first 'crashed' they had the area secured within a couple hours and left army personal there. Really? The place is so inaccessible no chance of looters unless they were concerned that another country's military would be up there in a flesh to get that very inconvenient black box that they found pretty quick smart. Where they show the plane to have crashed this would not allow debris to be scattered over such a large area. In fact it would contain it. Conveniently one of the few large pieces showed the German flag with the planes details again conveniently face up and very clean. So many inconsistencies with the images when compared with the report of what happened.

The passengers would have had enough time for at least one of them to text a good bye or something to the outside world unless these planes block out signals.

No explosion on impact. Unless fuel tank was near empty. Unlikely.

The condition of the few large pieces of debris is consistent with explosion as they are not crumpled and some of the windows still intact. Any crumpling would be consistent with being bent from hitting the ground but not by impact of the crash.

No bodies whatsoever can be seen even if only body parts as reported and covered up for respect. Really!

No ground zero. Just litter all over the place that look like it had slide down the alp sides and accumulated.

And in past crashes no matter the impact there is always intact luggage. Unless there's been an inferno.

Theory: The countries are so jittery this past week knowing soon that WW3 about to blow. This plane was accidentally brought down and this time of great tension is not a very good thing to happen it could have triggered the war. Thus the reason military got there pretty quick and all bodies removed. Intact bodies would have discounted this plane ploughing into the alps the way described.

But this just my observations. What you guys think?

[Mr.United_Nations]

The only conspiracy i see is how Lufthansa didn't tripple check on the co pilots health background. Also there is two recorders that need to be recovered. It's just standard security. They are not going to leave police up there? the police and investigators are investigating

[SamWhiteHopi]

Yes, two boxes to be recovered. But not being able to find one would go well with the official report. The taping of sounds and screams they can easily be falsified. But only at the very last few seconds? No yelling from passengers to what the hell going on. Even if they had only one minute! Or attempts by other crew members to break down the door. Plus someone knowledgable of the plane said they report using an axe in an attempt to break the door (not sure of that info). He said they don't have axes so accessible plus an axe wouldn't have put a dent in such a door.Not so easy to falsify the other boxes info. That could take some days if not months. So it very convenient the box not found yet. Naturally they would secure the area but it is the swiftness of it all. Bit quicker than most other crashes especially in such an inaccessible area. Everything seemed to be on hand. The main thing troubling I see is the large scattered area of debris. When it supposed to have crashed inside those high mountain crevices that would be very containing. And sadly health checks or not if this had been deliberate suicide whatever not everyone with mental illness is in treatment. Or on record. Many people fall through the cracks. And many people with such careers don't want to loose their jobs as it is their passion and will do anything to hide problems.

Edited March 28, 2015 by SamWhiteHopi

[SamWhiteHopi]

Has the sound recording been released to the public yet? One of my friends said it hadn't. They have with other crashes within short period of time. If they haven't and if this is a cover up there would be very good reason not to release it because a bogus pilot's voice wouldn't to be recognised by friends and family. And also there are so many people out there that could run the tape themselves for diagnosis and pick up if it was put together or authentic. Just more food for thought.

[.ZZ.]

Could it be they are not releasing the audio out of respect to the families of the victims?

[Imaginarynumber1]

Here we go with the "conspiracies"...

[SamWhiteHopi]

I thought about that, Extraterrestrial Entity. But they haven't minded in the past. Even if they edited some out. Don't have to release all the graphic details whether visual or auditory. And in other crashes they sure focus on teddy bears and toys or clothes items that would be immediately recognised by grieving families. At first I thought they were only showing the outer area of the crash site. Thinking it must be too horrific to show. But no what they show is where they say the plane crashed.

[toast]

When the plane first 'crashed' they had the area secured within a couple hours and left army personal there. Really?

First: the area wasnt "secured". 2nd: the crash site is in the middle of Europe and so with military equipment, like helicopters, within a radius

of just 250km. In addition, mountain rescue services are located in that area as well.

The place is so inaccessible no chance of looters unless they were

concerned that another country's military would be up there in a flesh to get that very inconvenient black box that they found pretty

quick smart.

Thats utter nonsens. And yes, the CVR was found quicky, so what?

Where they show the plane to have crashed this would not allow debris

to be scattered over such a large area.

So you are a professional airplane crash site analyst, with years of experience in that field, to be able to interpret the debris pattern of the crash?

Conveniently one of the few large pieces showed the German flag with

the planes details again conveniently face up and very clean.

Yesh, so what? Whats exactly is wrong with that fact?

So many inconsistencies with the images when compared with the report

of what happened.

So you are a professional airplane crash site analyst, with years of experience in that field, to be able to interpret the debris pattern of the crash?

The passengers would have had enough time for at least one of them to

text a good bye or something to the outside world unless these planes block out signals.

The plane was in a normal descent mode, so there was no reason for such actions.

No explosion on impact. Unless fuel tank was near empty. Unlikely.

Explosion or not, there was an impact, thats for sure.

The condition of the few large pieces of debris is consistent with explosion

as they are not crumpled and some of the windows still intact. Any crumpling would be consistent with being bent from hitting the ground but not by

impact of the crash.

Again: So you are a professional airplane crash site analyst, with years of experience in that field, to be able to interpret the debris conditions of the

crash?

No bodies whatsoever can be seen even if only body parts as reported and

covered up for respect. Really!

Fortunately the media was/is respectful enough to not publish images of the human remains.

No ground zero. Just litter all over the place that look like it had slide down the alp sides and accumulated.

Yeah but what exactly is wrong with that in yr opinion? Do you know what incline means? And gravity?

Theory: The countries are so jittery this past week knowing soon that WW3

about to blow. This plane was accidentally brought down and this time of great tension is not a very good thing to happen it could have triggered the war.

Thus the reason military got there pretty quick and all bodies removed. Intact bodies would have discounted this plane ploughing into the alps the way

described.

Thats idiotic.

What you guys think?

I think yr topic is idiotic at the highest level possible.

[SamWhiteHopi]

Ah, your words are music to the ears of anti conspiracy theorists and those who orchestrate cover ups, I am not an irrational number. If one plus one looks to be adding up to three I always ask why. Anyone give me a rational logical reply I then leave it be.

[FLOMBIE]

That was a very logical reply.

How do you know about what the debris should look like and in what pattern it should spread?

[SamWhiteHopi]

Your opinions and dissection of my post noted, respected and appreciated, toast. You make some very good points such as the military swiftness and rescue services. Thank you. This is why I post such topics and ask for others opinions. Regarding my theory I stand by it.

Most media, not all, rarely think about the feelings of family. And when they do it is usually because someone's complained about their insensitivity. Even today images of bodies can be found all over the internet regarding various horrific incidences.

And believe me one doesn't have to be an expert in analysing such crashes if they have seen enough images and read the back ground of those images. That's another way of silencing people or making others look stupid. If not given the green light by an expert everyone doesn't know what they talking about apparently. I'd love to be wrong and hope I am. But if I am not there'd be no surprise as on too many occasions I've been right about far less complicated things. And look how many times experts have missed something obvious or have been found to exaggerate finds. Look how many tens of thousands of people die at the hands of experts otherwise known as doctors. And the resultant cover ups. I know it is a different matter but still the same result. Death and lies that cause more deaths and lies and irreversible damage and mistrust.

[toast]

Ah, your words are music to the ears of anti conspiracy theorists and those who orchestrate cover ups, I am not an irrational number. If one plus one

looks to be adding up to three I always ask why. Anyone give me a rational logical reply I then leave it be.

Yr words are just an inaudible 3 decibel white noise signal in the background and you even weren't aware about geographical facts of Europe. So how

would you be able to add 1+1 if you seem not to be able to be aware of basis arithmetics? You didnt even provided a CT here, you just connected

some facts with an individual paranoid hallucination.

I hope this thread will be shut down soonest because it is just idiotic and its tactless as well.

[SamWhiteHopi]

Flombie, I've been a very inquisitive person since a very early age. Never taking others word for anything. I'm always unintentionally upsetting people as my questions sometime take others out of their comfort zone. Just like someone training to be an analyst I view videos, images, findings reports, documentaries that are very detailed and graphic these days. Exposing of cover ups and how cover ups were carried out and why. I'm 46 but have not just occasionally had an interest in various things. Experts don't impress me much because experts in the medical profession nearly killed numerous times the severely disabled person I've cared for for over 21 years. Often diagnosing him with life threatening conditions that doctors said were not there only to be diagnosed later with what I said had been wrong. And today I am permanently disabled as doctors refused to listen to my own opinion of my health issues and deliberately refused me tests so I had to go and find 'professionals' in the private medical system and pay for my own tests too frequently. And I have lost friends through death by same treatment by 'experts'. Even now my friend and I are battling 'experts' over something that is going to end up killing my friend if they don't do something bloody soon. But I'm used to being treated as an idiot by those who have been blinded into thinking the only people who know what they are talking about are people waving around papers with letters after their names. Want to hear a joke made up by a carer (not me) about professionals? Professionals built the Titanic. Amateurs built the Ark. Thanks for your question and participation.

Edited March 28, 2015 by SamWhiteHopi

[Redefining Success]

Why cant it just be seen that the copilot was mentally ill and clearly suicidal, and it what seems to be a spur of the moment, he took his life and that of the other passengers.

Why do we have to scrape the bottom of the barrell and bring up stupid theories.

European armies are, imo, VERY efficient. They are trained for the local terrain and are capable of setting up camp at the site of a disaster, they are the perfect people to leave in such a remote location to preserve evidence while waiting for suitable people to attend.

He was ill, he had nightmares about his job, so lets just leave it at that?

[SamWhiteHopi]

It is not scraping the bottom of barrell or bringing up of stupid theories, Redefining Success. If I wanted to do that I'd put this over something very inappropriate called Facebook that would be highly insensitive. I came here and only here as there are good rational conversations and people who can provide information such as toast did. Why should this post be taken down, toast, unless this site has now fallen victim to the PC brigade or are we to become speechless drones frightened to question? Nor should my intelligence or lack of be measured by how much I know of geography and so forth. Even 'experts' learn everyday and admit to making mistakes. That is why I asked for opinions in my original post. Thanks. And by the way I have limited knowledge on how to browse sites and post things in various ways and sometime horror of horrors I sometime address someone by the wrong name or even dare to misspell things as I'm not a walking dictionary. Just to let everyone know that I am as imperfect as everyone else. Thanks everyone for your patience. Cheers.

[SamWhiteHopi]

European armies are very efficient securers and rescuers, Redefining success. No where in my post do I question the skill of an individual soldier or policeman. My father fought in Yemen in the sixties and it was his skill that enabled my parents to survive the harsh and often dangerous terrain we travelled for two years while exploring Australia in the early 70's.

If this has not been a cover up and the young co pilot lost the plot then all very well and good. But if he didn't do it I am very well aware how cruel people can be to the family of such deceased totally destroying their lives and privacy. The poor parents of this young man. The ramifications on the airline.

[SamWhiteHopi]

Whoops, sorry, ZZ430, I addressed you as Extraterrestrial Entity.

[FLOMBIE]

Flombie, I've been a very inquisitive person since a very early age. Never taking others word for anything. I'm always unintentionally upsetting people as my questions sometime take others out of their comfort zone. Just like someone training to be an analyst I view videos, images, findings reports, documentaries that are very detailed and graphic these days. Exposing of cover ups and how cover ups were carried out and why. I'm 46 but have not just occasionally had an interest in various things. Experts don't impress me much because experts in the medical profession nearly killed numerous times the severely disabled person I've cared for for over 21 years. Often diagnosing him with life threatening conditions that doctors said were not there only to be diagnosed later with what I said had been wrong. And today I am permanently disabled as doctors refused to listen to my own opinion of my health issues and deliberately refused me tests so I had to go and find 'professionals' in the private medical system and pay for my own tests too frequently. And I have lost friends through death by same treatment by 'experts'. Even now my friend and I are battling 'experts' over something that is going to end up killing my friend if they don't do something bloody soon. But I'm used to being treated as an idiot by those who have been blinded into thinking the only people who know what they are talking about are people waving around papers with letters after their names. Want to hear a joke made up by a carer (not me) about professionals? Professionals built the Titanic. Amateurs built the Ark. Thanks for your question and participation.

Thank you for not answering my question. But that joke really lowers the bar, and if we are at this level, I'm out.

[keithisco]

I really must point out - again - that a rate of descent of 3500ft per minute is NOT a normal rate of descent. 1500 - 1800ft per minute is normal. At 3500 ft per minute it would be very uncomfortable for passengers.

I totally agree with Redefining Success, there is no conspiracy here, there are no religious zealots claiming anything. Just one very sick co-pilot who should not have been flying. Lufthansa will have to 'fess up and accept responsibility, and claims.

[Redefining Success]

im not disputing your fathers career in the forces, im stating a fact that if a site has to be secured, the military are the people to do such a job.

The site left unattended would bring some civilians and almost definatley local wildlife which may or may not decide to pick for food, wether that is food from the kitchen or the remains of the passengers is irrelevant, the fact is the site would be subject to foreign influence.

Maybe a bear would run off with a vital piece of evidence, we dont know. Get the army in, secure the site, keep animals away and let the investigators arrive in safe daylight hours to do the job.

That was the point I was making. If you find that as an insult to military persons then so be it.

Why cant it JUST be an unfortunate incident that 1 person decided to take his own life and that of his crew and passengers. WHY? does it have to be a conspiracy?

Post it on facebook, be as insensitive as you like, I wouldnt care, but dont expect every one to bow down and acceot your 'theory'

[SamWhiteHopi]

Sorry, Flombie I thought I had answered your question. I learnt by studying. And I included the joke as an example of how many people feel about professionals and experts. I apologise if this offends.

[SamWhiteHopi]

Keithisco, is this not your first reply? I did not mention rate of decent in my original post. On the news they reported that the plane was descending at a faster than normal rate and had also sped up. And thus the passengers would have been aware of an unusual motion of the plane. Especially if some of the passengers had flown that rout before and since the weather was apparently very clear there would be no need to deviate, especially downward toward mountains. I for one love looking out of plane window when flying. I'm sure I'd not be sitting calmly while my flight suddenly started descending toward a huge mountainous area without any warnings from the pilot to prepare for a crash landing. They also report that the poor passengers were awake as was the co pilot and pilot as they report that the tape catches the screams of the passengers as they watch in horror the approaching mountain.

[Rafterman]

After taking a look at the few photos available of the debris of Flight 9525 it is obvious this plane did not crash into these inaccessible alps in the way described. I had hoped to post four more pictures but the files too large.

When the plane first 'crashed' they had the area secured within a couple hours and left army personal there. Really? The place is so inaccessible no chance of looters unless they were concerned that another country's military would be up there in a flesh to get that very inconvenient black box that they found pretty quick smart. Where they show the plane to have crashed this would not allow debris to be scattered over such a large area. In fact it would contain it. Conveniently one of the few large pieces showed the German flag with the planes details again conveniently face up and very clean. So many inconsistencies with the images when compared with the report of what happened.

The passengers would have had enough time for at least one of them to text a good bye or something to the outside world unless these planes block out signals.

No explosion on impact. Unless fuel tank was near empty. Unlikely.

The condition of the few large pieces of debris is consistent with explosion as they are not crumpled and some of the windows still intact. Any crumpling would be consistent with being bent from hitting the ground but not by impact of the crash.

No bodies whatsoever can be seen even if only body parts as reported and covered up for respect. Really!

No ground zero. Just litter all over the place that look like it had slide down the alp sides and accumulated.

And in past crashes no matter the impact there is always intact luggage. Unless there's been an inferno.

Theory: The countries are so jittery this past week knowing soon that WW3 about to blow. This plane was accidentally brought down and this time of great tension is not a very good thing to happen it could have triggered the war. Thus the reason military got there pretty quick and all bodies removed. Intact bodies would have discounted this plane ploughing into the alps the way described.

But this just my observations. What you guys think?

Could your please share with us your background and expertise in aeronautics, crash scene investigation, crash forensics, etc.

A link to your Linked In page or professional bio should be sufficient.

Thanks.

[SamWhiteHopi]

Ah, Redefining Succcess, can you read my answer to you again, please. How you thought I read you as insulting military persons I don't know. I thought you thought I was initially questioning their skill thus I mention my father. I agree with securing the site not just to stop any looters. News reports showed the terrain only allowed for helicopter access so no way would civilians be able to get there safely in a very short time. They were even worried about the noise of the choppers causing the soil to slip and bury evidence and rescuers. And toast was good enough to point out why the response was so quick. And I said if I were being insensitive by posting ab out this I would have posted to Facebook. Not that I was going to. Nor am I going to. This section of the site is about possible conspiracies. Debate. I was genuinely interested in seeing whether anyone else had seen what I also saw or feel I see due to other numerous reports on plane crashes.

And no we can never just put it down to a very unfortunate incident caused by a mentally ill person and leave it at that. Watch air crash investigation and you will soon realise that sometimes crash cases have been reopened to find out the initial conclusion of an investigation was totally incorrect. You have a little quote that is at the bottom of you replies that states: 'If what I type offends you, don't see it as an attack, but as my opinion'. This is my opinion. And if it is not that of everyone else's no one is obliged to participate in the discussion or continue in it.

Also, regarding animals, yes, there is a need to secure the area from them. But I don't see too many bears being stupid enough to risk trapping themselves there having seen the instability of the terrain which they would be very familiar with. Spending all that energy to get there also would not appeal to them especially when they also see noisy choppers arriving that they may have memories of being shot at or buzzed by in the past. Plenty of lush vegetation more safe and accessible and not exposed surrounding the mountains. And the noise of the crash would have initially sent them scampering in terror the opposite direction. Nor would a bird fly off with with too much unless it be nesting materials or food and desperate. The news also reported how gusty this area is thus it looking so desolate and the great danger of a sudden up drift slamming a chopper into the mountains. And though the idea of human remains being eaten is disturbing the bodies are not going to help the investigation by what has been described by reports. But yes, the bodies must be recovered where possible. And not at the risk of further lose of life.

And I said my personal theory was this being a very unfortunate accident. NOT a deliberate act of terror. It is just sad that if things are not entirely as reported it is this young mans grieving family who will have to live with it. That their son killed so many people if he didn't. Should not he be given the benefit of the doubt especially if he were mentally ill. And don't the mentally I'll have enough stigma attached to them as being dangerous when they mostly are not. There are more non mentally Ill that are a blasted pest and danger to society than the mentally ill. Then there's the conflicting stories regarding his mental health. Give them enough time they might come up with something that doesn't conflict with the official story.

[SamWhiteHopi]

Rafterman, I have already answered Flombie who had similar queries. This site is not solely for 'experts' to voice their opinions. I await any experts to join the conversation and also provide me with images and links showing me what a plane crash site should look like when a plane crashes at the speed this one did into the same environment and the conditions of the bodies that so far the images do not even show one spot of blood. When the plane that was suppose to have been shot down by Russian rebels the media sure didn't mind showing the gore that is still found on the internet. Sorry, I have not succumbed to the dumbing down by the system that requires me not to ask questions unless I don't mind being shamed or criticised or have my intelligence questioned. Not been here for quite some time accept to post something some few weeks ago. Seems to be less debate now. But it's easier to attack or criticise people by key board than face to face. And no I am not saying you are attacking me. You asked a valid question. Now I'd just like some valid answers. For I know there are genuine experts here throughout this site as there was some years ago. Or have they cleared off. But if I have answered a question I won't answer it again unless it it to clarify something. Often my experience has been that some people read the post don't read the comments and replies then make a comment that has already been covered. And very often what has been written been very MISREAD.