902 replies to this topic

[cladking]

The Skeptic Eric Raven, on 07 February 2013 - 01:38 PM, said:

Us stupid humans. We always need help from aliens or gods to do anything. NOT.

Perhaps if the question is who created the entire universe who who invented the levitation
guns that lifted the stones to build the great pyramids it becomes pretty tough to answer without
invoking gods or aliens.  I know some pretty sharp people but not one of them has ever flown to
another planet and built large piles of stone.

Most people I encounter would starve to death or die of exposure first if they had to live by their
wits alone. If someone hadn't first invented language and the computer it would be pretty difficult
for you to even express you skepticism.

Maybe the pyramid was just a bet between a couple aliens that humans would in no time come to
believe we had built the pyramids despite the near total lack of evidence for how stones were lifted.

[Quaentum]

dreamland, on 07 February 2013 - 01:16 PM, said:

Ancient Egyptians had gods,believed in magic and do all sort of rituals. I believe that builders had to have some outside help or knowledge. There is no evidence of alien intervention but there is planty of evidence of extraterrestial visits in the past,seeing by ancient man.

While we wait for that evidence to be presented, let us look and see that where the pyramids in Egypt are we have, worker camps, ramps and chisel marks on the stones.  That combined with stones that are not all uniform is evidence that men buikt the pyramid without high technology or alien intervention or knowledge.

[Quaentum]

cladking, on 07 February 2013 - 03:34 PM, said:

Perhaps if the question is who created the entire universe who who invented the levitation
guns that lifted the stones to build the great pyramids it becomes pretty tough to answer without
invoking gods or aliens.  I know some pretty sharp people but not one of them has ever flown to
another planet and built large piles of stone.

Most people I encounter would starve to death or die of exposure first if they had to live by their
wits alone. If someone hadn't first invented language and the computer it would be pretty difficult
for you to even express you skepticism.

Maybe the pyramid was just a bet between a couple aliens that humans would in no time come to
believe we had built the pyramids despite the near total lack of evidence for how stones were lifted.

Careful not to trip over those levitation guns.  They are right next to the geysers.

Maybe the bet between the aliens was to see how long some humans would deny the stone structures, like the pyramids, were built by humans despite the evidence that does exist and how long they would believe it was aliens or advanced technology despite the lack of evidence.

[cladking]

Quaentum, on 07 February 2013 - 04:26 PM, said:

While we wait for that evidence to be presented, let us look and see that where the pyramids in Egypt are we have, worker camps, ramps and chisel marks on the stones.  That combined with stones that are not all uniform is evidence that men buikt the pyramid without high technology or alien intervention or knowledge.

I suppose if the stones were uniform that might be considered evidence they were made by man.

You seem to have forgotten that the evidence man built them  is in no way consistent with the
bulk of the evidence from the workers being half women to having no job titles consistent with drag-
ging stones on the unevidenced ramps.  You seem to forget that the builders said "gods" built the
pyramids and said they flew about in "boats".

It seems we are all so busy interpreting evidence that we all forget to look and see that evidence.
We are so busy looking for ramps we are blind to caves.  And if anyone has any interest in them
then all that's needed is a stout iron gate.  Case closed.

[Quaentum]

cladking, on 07 February 2013 - 05:07 PM, said:

I suppose if the stones were uniform that might be considered evidence they were made by man.

Actually it would be more likely evidence that they were done by high technology.

cladking said:

You seem to have forgotten that the evidence man built them  is in no way consistent with the
bulk of the evidence from the workers being half women to having no job titles consistent with drag-
ging stones on the unevidenced ramps.  You seem to forget that the builders said "gods" built the
pyramids and said they flew about in "boats".

With a project like building pyramids, there were a great many more jobs than just pulling the blocks.  Unevidenced ramps?  You mean like the one on the south side of the Great Pyramid that can be seen, and touched?  That kind of unevidenced ramp?

Pretty much everything from the creation of the universe on has been attributed to the gods.  Fortunately, as our knowledge grows, so does our understanding of what has gone on around us and we no longer attribute such things to the gods.

cladking said:

It seems we are all so busy interpreting evidence that we all forget to look and see that evidence.
We are so busy looking for ramps we are blind to caves.  And if anyone has any interest in them
then all that's needed is a stout iron gate.  Case closed.

Some of us look and see the evidence and then interpret it.  We don't look at evidence that can be seen and felt, that has a physical presence and refer to it as unevidenced.

[cladking]

Quaentum, on 07 February 2013 - 06:05 PM, said:

With a project like building pyramids, there were a great many more jobs than just pulling the blocks.

Indeed.  And not a single one of the job titles are consistent with dragging stones.  Well, I
suppose if you believed the sleds were called "boats" then several were consistent.

Quote

Unevidenced ramps?  You mean like the one on the south side of the Great Pyramid that can be seen, and touched?  That kind of unevidenced ramp?

You're referring to a flimsy thing that would hardly make a good foot path that isn't
even pointed at the pyramid.  Even if you could make a good case that this was a
ramp you still haven't answered how stones got up the pyramid, merely how they got
to it.  The word "ramp" isn't even attested until the end of the great pyramid building age.

[TheSearcher]

As opposed to the words "geyser" or "levitation gun" that are attested........erm....... nowhere come to think of it.
More evidence to ramps than to geysers or levitation guns so far.

[cladking]

TheSearcher, on 07 February 2013 - 09:29 PM, said:

As opposed to the words "geyser" or "levitation gun" that are attested........erm....... nowhere come to think of it.
More evidence to ramps than to geysers or levitation guns so far.

This depends solely on interpretation.

The builders saying that osiris was cool effervescent water that towed the earth by means of
balance would be pretty convincing to me even if there weren't carbonated water and caves
under the plateau and five step pyramids everywhere.

[TheSearcher]

cladking, on 07 February 2013 - 09:38 PM, said:

This depends solely on interpretation.

The builders saying that osiris was cool effervescent water that towed the earth by means of
balance would be pretty convincing to me even if there weren't carbonated water and caves
under the plateau and five step pyramids everywhere.

Like you said interpretation. In this case the personal interpretation you make of something written in the Pyramid Texts (if I'm not mistaken that's the text you interpret, right?)
Pot Kettle etc.

Edited by TheSearcher, 07 February 2013 - 10:59 PM.

[DieChecker]

cladking, on 07 February 2013 - 09:38 PM, said:

This depends solely on interpretation.

Because your single opinion is right and the other 4 billion people are wrong??

[cladking]

DieChecker, on 09 February 2013 - 06:41 PM, said:

Because your single opinion is right and the other 4 billion people are wrong??

Much stranger things happen every day.  The difference is that the writers of the PT
seem to agree with me where there's no evidence from the time period that agrees with
the billions who believe in something else.

692c. He is effervescent; he is effervescent; Shu, let thy arms be about N.

507c. effervescent, proceeding from leg and tail of the Great (One) who is in splendour.
508a. N. is come to his watercourses, which are in the land of the flood, in Mḥ.t-wr.t,

1553b. They tremble who see the inundation (when) it tosses;

1551a. To say: This thy cavern there is the broad-hall of Osiris N..

One builder talking about an effervescent inundation that tosses which comes from
caves outweighs any number of billions of Egyptologists in my book.  I'm funny this way,
though.  Evidence carries weight, interpretation does not.

[The_Spartan]

instead of sitting in an armchair and read translations of the Pyramid Texts, get there to Egypt, see the Pyramids, be in awe and then write

"I wont believe that the AE used Geysers or levitation to lift up the blocks" a 10,000 times and be grounded for life.

(I have been to Egypt, been to  the Pyramids/Sphinx, and many places in Egypt as part of two tours)

[cladking]

The_Spartan, on 09 February 2013 - 09:41 PM, said:

(I have been to Egypt, been to  the Pyramids/Sphinx, and many places in Egypt as part of two tours)

It's a dirty shame that you can't take a tour of caves under the pyramids because they refuse
to excavate them and have put gates and padlocks on them.  One can only speculate on what
evidence lies under these caves that can't be examined because we already know everything.

[Mangoze]

cladking, on 09 February 2013 - 09:28 PM, said:

Much stranger things happen every day.  The difference is that the writers of the PT
seem to agree with me where there's no evidence from the time period that agrees with
the billions who believe in something else.

692c. He is effervescent; he is effervescent; Shu, let thy arms be about N.

507c. effervescent, proceeding from leg and tail of the Great (One) who is in splendour.
508a. N. is come to his watercourses, which are in the land of the flood, in Mḥ.t-wr.t,

1553b. They tremble who see the inundation (when) it tosses;

1551a. To say: This thy cavern there is the broad-hall of Osiris N..

One builder talking about an effervescent inundation that tosses which comes from
caves outweighs any number of billions of Egyptologists in my book.  I'm funny this way,
though.  Evidence carries weight, interpretation does not.

ef·fer·ves·cent  


/ˌefərˈvesənt/

[color=#878787 !important]
Adjective

• (of a liquid) Giving off bubbles; fizzy.
  
• (of a person or their behavior) Vivacious and enthusiastic.

[/color]


When 'effervescent' is used in the same sentence as 'he', the writer is obviously talking about liquid, and not a person, right?

By the way, your tossing effervescent inundation is not mentioned in the one utterance.

Edited by Mangoze, 09 February 2013 - 10:34 PM.

[cladking]

Mangoze, on 09 February 2013 - 10:33 PM, said:

By the way, your tossing effervescent inundation is not mentioned in the one utterance.

Did I ever mention that I don't think they talked this way?  This is the way we would
explain something and not the way they'd write rituals (or anything).  If you have any
doubt about which definition of "effervescent" was meant by Mercer then just read
further;

1121a. when he ascends to heaven, when he ferries over the vault, for life and joy:
1121b. also when he traverses the foaming sea, destroying the walls of Shu.

When he ascends to heaven the foaming sea destroys the walls of "upward".  This is
exactly what wouldf happen if you built walls around a source of carbonic acid; they
would be damaged as you built ever higher.

If you read the Pyramid Texts like it's written in the same format as what we speak it
doesn't make any sense.  It contradicts itself and and is inconsistent with nature and
human nature.  Some phrases seem to almost make sense and ven entire sentences
can seem coherent but it all lacks integrity.  It's not like any book and this includes the
book of the dead which is obviously about magic and religion.  The PT is just has an al-
most random meaning from passage to passage.

We can continue to interpret it or we can seek meaning in it.  Essentially this is where
you can find extremely good coherence; solving for referents.  Just decide before you
start that the writers could have been logical and intelligent and you won't end up at the
book of the dead.  We have always ended up at the book of the dead because that is
exactly where everyone has always started. Even before the PT were found earlier peo-
ple interpreted it the same way because they didn't understand it either.

It would be very easy to prove me wrong just by doing the basic science at Giza that
hasn't been getting done since 1986.  Do what is supposed to be done like digging out
these caves and there will be proof in weeks if not days.

The reason science is useful is that it makes accurate predictions and nothing else can
do this consistently.  Refusing to test these predictions is unhuman.  It is anti-scientific
and superstition at it zenith.  The gods are not amused.