117 replies to this topic

[the L]

orangepeaceful79, on 10 February 2013 - 04:55 PM, said:

My official position is that :
1) there are unidentified flying objects, which are to date either hoaxes, or otherwise explainable phenomenon.
2) the universe is too big to not have other life forms
3)I don't believe that we have been visited by any of them, ever - yet.

I do apologize for the confusing nature of my post.  I should have edited more correctly. Thanks!

No problema Orange. I thought that might be a case.

if I can comment your view.

1)or unexplained phenomenan
2)true, but in our life time? On cosmic scale we appears just recently. And if we dont change something we will be remember (by whom? universe) as a blink. So maybe there was civilization once. Maybe they destroy themselves. Also Im sure that ET life form will be much like we are.
3)Im open minded to idea of Ancient aliens. Also even greatest scientists speculated that ET might have be among us just wont let us know.

[the L]

Purifier, on 11 February 2013 - 05:06 AM, said:

...

I used before ignore button. But I think that everyone needs sceond chance. Also ignoring isnt antidote to their poison. Because of their surpression Im sure new members are affraid to wrote and ask. If you ignore them they achive (?) their goal. So I rather fight them. Its hard environment. So let it be. Also I like to value my knowledge. And often those who insults might have knowledge about something which interests me. Its pitty only that they dont have manners.

[HerNibs]

I would LOVE to find something, anything, that could have no other explanation other than "paranormal" or "alien".

So far...nada.

Nibs

[the L]

HerNibs, on 11 February 2013 - 08:13 PM, said:

I would LOVE to find something, anything, that could have no other explanation other than "paranormal" or "alien".

So far...nada.

Nibs

And if we do, you would tell: We need more research! Maybe Im wrong.

[Archimedes]

the L, on 11 February 2013 - 08:26 PM, said:

And if we do, you would tell: We need more research! Maybe Im wrong.

Unless it has been throughly researched and the exact nature of the alienness or paranormality of the phenomenon has been established, what's wrong with calling for 'more research'?

'It's paranormal' is not a satisfactory explanation for anything any more than 'it's normal' or 'it's supernatural' or 'it's alien' is an explanation.  It's just a very vague description.

[the L]

Archimedes, on 11 February 2013 - 08:58 PM, said:

Unless it has been throughly researched and the exact nature of the alienness or paranormality of the phenomenon has been established, what's wrong with calling for 'more research'?

'It's paranormal' is not a satisfactory explanation for anything any more than 'it's normal' or 'it's supernatural' or 'it's alien' is an explanation.  It's just a very vague description.

Nothing wrong. Just thats where conversation ends with that statement. I rather like to discuss working hypothesis then shut down conversation. What if...Lets say...How about this...Nothing wrong being wrong. Its process of learning. Its process of science. Most of scinetific theories were wrong.

[Still Waters]

Simbi Laveau, on 11 February 2013 - 05:55 AM, said:

But if I'm posting on a medical thread,given ive been a medical professional for 30 years,I find it RUDE for anyone to claim I know nothing about medicine ,because their experiences are not the same as my own.
I also find it beyond pompous ,to say,well you can't say that ,you don't have the proper college education to say it,when I do.
Especially when they have no idea what my degees are,and they do go after my every post .

To be fair you do bring acupuncture into a lot of the medical threads to the annoyance of other posters, especially when the topic is not even about acupuncture, yet you tend to turn it around and then get annoyed when nobody is interested. You also have a very biased view point towards general medicine in as much as you have nothing good to say about it. When you enter a discussion thread with nothing but that on your mind, it is bound to receive some negative responses. In cases like those how much medical experience you have is of no interest to anyone else.

[HerNibs]

Archimedes, on 11 February 2013 - 08:58 PM, said:

Unless it has been throughly researched and the exact nature of the alienness or paranormality of the phenomenon has been established, what's wrong with calling for 'more research'?

'It's paranormal' is not a satisfactory explanation for anything any more than 'it's normal' or 'it's supernatural' or 'it's alien' is an explanation.  It's just a very vague description.

Yup.  Agreed.

Nibs

[Chrlzs]

the L, on 11 February 2013 - 08:26 PM, said:

And if we do, you would tell: We need more research!   Maybe Im wrong.

I like the way you put those two sentences right next to each other.. If you are willing to admit that you might be wrong, then .... doesn't that obviously suggest that you needed to be in possession of more facts..?  Isn't that called ... research?

If you, or anyone, has compelling and adequately researched 'proof' of any mysterious, non-explainable thing, be it anything from the Apollo missions being faked, right through to extra-sensory abilities, ghosts, aliens, bigfoot, whatever - then why not post it right now, here on this thread?  (If not for me, for Her Nibs!)

It seems to me a whole lot of angst is being directed at those who tend to do the most real research here...  ie .. skeptics.  Pretty much, by definition, that's what skeptics do.  I find it rather annoying that the term skeptic seems to have been redefined - one might even suggest that the whole point of that re-definition is to generalise and take a swipe at anyone who is a 'skeptic'.  'Skeptic' on this thread seems to be defined as someone who publicly dares to dispute your closely held belief, no matter how wrong it is, no matter if it is potentially damaging...


Funnily enough, I think skepticism is one of the most important attributes we have - being skeptical is how we, as a race, perform the rather important task of NOT necessarily believing any old piece of drivel that is placed in front of us...

[Frank Merton]

Credulity versus Skepticism versus Cynicism.  The English language has this one right on.

Speaking of English, I had to double-check to be sure I had "versus" right, and I'm still not quite sure.

Edited by Frank Merton, 12 February 2013 - 12:07 PM.

[Frank Merton]

I can see how something can be "abnormal," meaning unusual, often in a pejorative way, but I don't see how anything that really exists can be "paranormal."  The very fact of existence means to me that it is normal -- within the universe.

I have the same problem with the word "spiritual."  Say there are "spirits" about -- then they are about, they have existence, and by definition then they are physical things.  They may not be composed of the stuff we are composed of, but they are composed of something.  If they are able to have any impact whatsoever on us (be seen, heard, felt, smelled, whatever, then they have to have physical attributes).

[Religulous]

For the sake of argument, really. If I had all of the answers, life would be boring.

[Sundew]

There will always be believers and non-believers on virtually any subject (remember the Flat Earth Society?). Not everything we experience can be proven by the scientific method, i.e. you can't put God in a box. Some things like religion are transcendent, if you tried to explain them scientifically you would likely fall short. Other things that seem to be physical may or may not be. Take UFOs, some are undoubtedly cases of hoaxes, mistaken identity, military "black projects", results of drugs and alcohol abuse, delusions, etcetera. Does that mean they do not exist? Not necessarily there is a small percentage of sightings that defy explanation, however there is very little physical evidence and we certainly have no "body", nor has a ship land in D.C., a-la The Day the Earth Stood Still. So where you have a lack of 100% convincing proof of a subject, it is difficult for that subject not to cause skepticism and really that is healthy. Because you can look at it from the opposite perspective: what if UFOs (as an example) DO NOT exist and never have, and we are alone in the universe? Then there are a lot of delusional or mistaken people some of whom have attached a cult like status to aliens from another world, and that is probably unhealthy.

Humans can be a superstitious lot and some of it is based on faulty observations and lack of scientific knowledge. Man used to think that flies were spontaneously generated from corpses, until a little observational science was done.

This is not to say these things are not worth investigation; once the Giant Panda was regarded as myth, until it was discovered in the bamboo forests of China. So what of Sasquatch? Well, there is some anecdotal evidence, bits of physical evidence like hair and footprints, and lots of eyewitnesses (yes, who could be mistaken) so it is probably worth investigation. But again they too may not exist, so no matter how many times people go out and look for Bigfoot or Nessie unsucessfully, there will always be those who say that "you just haven't found them YET". I prefer to keep and open mind about it all and if one day someones finds a Sasquatch that was hit by a Semi on I-10, well I'll be pleasantly surprised (and a bit sad). Just remember you can't prove a universal negative and you can never say with certainly that God, aliens, cryptids, etcetera, do not and cannot exist, because that is an opinion and an opinion is also not fact.

Now get out there and fight for your beliefs!