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The Great Debate!


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#1    frogfish

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Posted 02 October 2005 - 02:32 PM

Hello everyone,

       There are 3 debates in this thread. You don't have to debate all 3, but you welcome to. if you do debate all 2/3 topics, please put them in the same post. I will number the topics, so it is easier. LET THE DEBATE BEGIN!

1. Is there a link between Ultrasaros, Supersaurus, and Brachiosaurus? These 3 migh all be the same dino! Or are they?
(one of the most debated topics in paleontology^)

2. Which is bigger? Seismosaurus, Argentinosaurus, or Sauroposiedon?

3. Is Saurophaganx just an oversize Allosaurus? Or is it the largest carnivore to ever roam the land?

(remeber there are just a few bone fragments found of some of these dinosaurs!)

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#2    dragonlady_mothman

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Posted 02 October 2005 - 02:34 PM

I've wondered stuff like that.  Not those, specifically, but things like, "We found the jawbone of a single dinosaur, and we think it looked like ******* and ate ****** and moved like ******..."

The whole while, I'm thinking, "How can you tell?" huh.gif

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#3    frogfish

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Posted 02 October 2005 - 02:49 PM

Very good question dragonlady___mothman!
I see your point, how can so much be derived from so little? The answer is that when they find the bines, they normally find more than one. A few vertebrae, and femur, and some other bone fragments is enough for scients to make an educated guess on the size and weight...which can be accurate. And by the bones (size...etc) they can identify what kind of creature it was.

Well, i'll start off the debate with what i think

1. As you know, there is a circle of bones moving from dinosaur to dinosaur. Scientists are not able to determine which bones belong to which dino. Which the bones having so much in common, i think supersaurus and Ultrasauros are a subspecies of Brachisaurus, and that coulkd be feasible since they are larger than brachiosaurus.

2. Planly, i have to say seismosaurus is larger. there is simply too little bone fragments of  Argenntinosaurus and Sauroposiedon to know if they are bigger. But that might change in the future, cause the estimated length and weight (+/-) is just about the same as Seismosaurus

3. I think Saurophaganax is its own species, its way too large to be a mutant allosaurus. ( a subspecies is always a possibility), but i think it deserves its own species.

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#4    dragonlady_mothman

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Posted 02 October 2005 - 02:57 PM

Animal Plantet had something on last weeked about dinosaurs.  They showed one of the earliest dinosaur exibits and how poorly constructed they were (the iguanadon's "nose horn", for example).  Biology's come a long way since then, but I still wonder whether or not we got them all figured out, too.  

Keep in mind, just one short decade ago, everyone knew dinosaurs were big lizards and had no feathers, 'cept freaks of nature like archaepteryx (my spelling is atrocious), and then I watch a show on dinosaurs and watch a paleontologist say, "And then I set my kids down, and I looked them dead in the eye, and I told them, 'Listen carefully, this is very important...T-rex had feathers!' "

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#5    frogfish

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Posted 02 October 2005 - 02:59 PM

isnt it amazing how science advances this fast?

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#6    frogfish

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Posted 03 October 2005 - 08:37 PM

I think Seismosaurus would be bigger cause also its ribs are bigger, therefore more girth, But it has been proven that the only Argentinosaurus died after it choked on a large gastrolith, and it was 150 ft long...there is speculation that argentinosaurus could grow much bigger, and that tthe specimen wasn't an adult.

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#7    FrothyDog

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Posted 12 October 2005 - 02:18 AM

for topic 1:

brachiosaurus and ultrasaurus were indeed extremely similar, but supersaurus is very different.  it's like the difference between an apatosaur and a brachiosaur.


#8    frogfish

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Posted 12 October 2005 - 10:09 PM

still, bones are circulating between the 3! that must mean that they are somehow related...if the paleontologists are right

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#9    Paulwhale

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Posted 17 October 2005 - 01:51 AM

Quote


Hello everyone,

       There are 3 debates in this thread. You don't have to debate all 3, but you welcome to. if you do debate all 2/3 topics, please put them in the same post. I will number the topics, so it is easier. LET THE DEBATE BEGIN!

1. Is there a link between Ultrasaros, Supersaurus, and Brachiosaurus? These 3 migh all be the same dino! Or are they?
(one of the most debated topics in paleontology^)

2. Which is bigger? Seismosaurus, Argentinosaurus, or Sauroposiedon?

3. Is Saurophaganx just an oversize Allosaurus? Or is it the largest carnivore to ever roam the land?

(remeber there are just a few bone fragments found of some of these dinosaurs!)



Ok, good questions, man, and I was questioning them myself, and this is what I found out:

Argentinosaurus is absolutely largest dinosaur ever, sauroposeidon and seismosaurus are smaller, if there is some article that says sauruposeidon weighed 220 tons, it is just speculation by dinosaur fans who go nuts, just speculations people, nno proof, no bones, nothing, to this moment, largest known dinosaur known is Argentinosaurus, and, largest bones ever belong to him, considering the question if they are all same, I think they are, because I have never heard about any differences between those dinosaurs.


#10    frogfish

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Posted 17 October 2005 - 11:28 PM

thank you....I agree

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#11    FrothyDog

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Posted 17 October 2005 - 11:54 PM

what do you mean by "bones are circulating between the three"?  that's a foul practice, no honest paleontologist would ever dream of doing it.  that's how mistakes like the brontosaur happen.

Ultrasaurus is considered a possible large brachiosaur.  both belong to the family brachiosauridae.

Supersaurus, however, belongs to the family diplodocidae.  whether it is a large diplodocus or not remains to be seen.


#12    frogfish

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Posted 18 October 2005 - 12:29 AM

what i mean is that bones previously assigned to one, have been assigned to another....i never meant it for scientist to become "foul", and iknew they were in different families

Paulwhale, sorry, i made a mistake...i meant to say that I think Sesimsaurus is bigger,...it was longer and heavier....

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#13    FrothyDog

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Posted 21 October 2005 - 12:31 AM

sorry about the mixup, frogfish.

i am really fond of the big dip/big brach idea though.

besides.  i can just imagine all of supersaurus's dinosaur buddies calling him "big dip"


#14    frogfish

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Posted 21 October 2005 - 12:41 AM

lol....
too bad their skeletons are incomplete...

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