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Best evidence for ET visitation - 3rd edition


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#6001    DBunker

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 02:45 PM

View PostHazzard, on 13 September 2012 - 10:22 AM, said:

I would be surprised if man-made aircraft never has been mistaken for ET craft.


Yes..... also, from your first post in this thread....


I might say, however, that as an investigator of pseudo scientific topics for over twenty years my experience has taught me that the first things to suspect and look for are fraud, forgery, deception, misrepresentation, sophistry, and specious reasoning, and if these are not in evidence, I then look for illogical reasoning, self-deception, misreading, inadvertently fudged data, and willful misunderstanding.

If these are not in evidence, I then look for ignorance, innocent mistakes, misinterpretations, equipment errors, out-of-date references, overlooked results or causes, etc.

Unfortunately, ALL of these items MUST be examined FIRST when investigating any pseudo scientific topic, BEFORE one begins looking for presumed new or unusual natural phenomena.


Now THAT is the way (the only way) to go when examening these reports.

Now that communications technology has made it possible to give global reach to the bizarre and archive it forever, it is essential for men and women of reason resolutely to counter the delusions of the fringe element. James S. Robbins

#6002    synchronomy

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 02:50 PM

View Postpsyche101, on 13 September 2012 - 06:55 AM, said:

I disagree, the above does not describe humanity at all, it describes a portion of it, we always forget art, music, helping other species survive through compassion, people who devote their lives to helping others such as missionaries, science, literature, medicine; we have more to be proud of than we do to be ashamed of. Every single species on earth is guilty of the nominal traits you have expressed, I can bet a weeks wages that a T Rex would not have given a hoot if there were only 200 Condors left in the world. We do, and we are trying to expand our horizons and meet new neighbours and learn more new things. People should stop focussing on the pitfalls of this learning curve. Humanity is not 6 billion Hitlers.

I don't dispute the fact that there's great things going on here, nor did I mean to imply everyone's a Hitler...however the things I listed are significant.  War and starvation alone should not exist.  The fact that they do exist suggests we have not yet outgrown our primitive nature.
Again I am speaking in general terms about ET's looking down from above.  It doesn't take too many wars to overshadow our great accomplishments.

At the heart of science is an essential balance between two seemingly contradictory attitudes--an openness to new ideas, no matter how bizarre or counterintuitive they may be, and the most ruthless skeptical scrutiny of all ideas, old and new.
This is how deep truths are winnowed from deep nonsense. -- Carl Sagan

#6003    DBunker

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 03:23 PM

View Postsynchronomy, on 13 September 2012 - 02:50 PM, said:

I don't dispute the fact that there's great things going on here, nor did I mean to imply everyone's a Hitler...however the things I listed are significant.  War and starvation alone should not exist.  The fact that they do exist suggests we have not yet outgrown our primitive nature.
Again I am speaking in general terms about ET's looking down from above.  It doesn't take too many wars to overshadow our great accomplishments.

I think that we are forgetting something here.... ET may not be "human-like" at all.  Worrying about death, war and starvation, compassion and all that.

And if he isnt anything like us, all bets are off.

Now that communications technology has made it possible to give global reach to the bizarre and archive it forever, it is essential for men and women of reason resolutely to counter the delusions of the fringe element. James S. Robbins

#6004    DONTEATUS

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 04:26 PM

DB hit the head on the nail ! ET cares not but for whats on there agenda. That we will only know If ET actually is out there and really comes here.
So Party till the Cows get tipped  !
And the B.B. Q will be on me ! BYOA`s :alien: :tu: :whistle:

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#6005    psyche101

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 05:56 AM

View Postsynchronomy, on 13 September 2012 - 02:50 PM, said:

I don't dispute the fact that there's great things going on here, nor did I mean to imply everyone's a Hitler...however the things I listed are significant.  War and starvation alone should not exist.  The fact that they do exist suggests we have not yet outgrown our primitive nature.
Again I am speaking in general terms about ET's looking down from above.  It doesn't take too many wars to overshadow our great accomplishments.

Indeed, one is always remembered for the last bad thing one does, not all the good things one had done in the meantime. That's human nature I guess.

However, for every ugliness there is a beauty. I canot see an advanced species, who surely has either undergone such a process, or seen it, and even if neither, should be intelligent enough to "understand" unless we have hostile aliens, and I cannot understand why a hostile force would sit in secrecy. We would not be here now if that was the case.

I think war and starvation are a part of the journey all must travel, every animal goes to war from humans to ants, every animal knows what starvation is, expecting perhaps big business fat cats and politician types.

I do not think one could become an advanced species without hefty experience in this very area, and I suspect an advanced species might help out a sentient race as soposed to watch them starve to death, I could not starve a snake to death, and they are not my favourite creatures by any means, not would I consider myself advanced, yet we help dying species all the time. We have brought more than one species back from the brink of extinction.

And if war is the problem, why would the aliens be invading the US? Would they not just go to Switzerland?

Edited by psyche101, 14 September 2012 - 05:58 AM.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#6006    psyche101

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 06:06 AM

View Post747400, on 13 September 2012 - 08:09 AM, said:

Well, of course, you know what major defense projects are like. I'm talking about flying; it first flew in April '89, but it was revealed to the Public in November '88. Therefore it wasn't flying around in secret long before it was announced, so it isn't an example of how these things happen.


Would there not have been prototypes and experimental models? Surely you do not believe that this project sat in the drawing board for like 50 years and then one day just took to the air?
Didn't that bloody sensationalist Goldwater from Roswell notoriety  have something to do with the release?
And what is the deadline for a secret project to fit into your guidelines? 5 years of detected and reported secret flight? 10? It seems that just a couple of years you find insignificant enough to dismiss what I see as a valid application? Is that the requirement?

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#6007    psyche101

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 06:08 AM

View Post747400, on 13 September 2012 - 08:44 AM, said:

That certainly makes more sense than the argument that there's all these secret aircraft flying about that people identify as UFOs, to be sure, and it almost certainly is a common source of UFO reports, that is very true.

That would come under misidentification of conventional craft would it not?

Is that not part of the black ops proposal, and in fact, the crux of the argument?

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#6008    DONTEATUS

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 09:36 PM

Just try and guess the name of the Newest Top secret,"not for long" Hyper space supper fast Toy ?

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#6009    synchronomy

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Posted 15 September 2012 - 04:37 PM

View PostHazzard, on 09 September 2012 - 04:41 PM, said:

Sounds like an interesting documentary,... please post a link if you happen to find it again.

Also, maybe you have heard of the Miller–Urey experiment?

http://en.wikipedia....Urey_experiment

I know I'm going back a few pages in the thread, but I thought this was worthy of mention.  Although the Miller-Urey experiment demonstrates a small number of complex organic compounds can be created by natural means, it comes nowhere close to what is necessary for the formation of DNA.
Even in a single celled organism, the process of DNA replication is so complex it boggles the mind.  View this short video and try to imagine how this process could have started from primordial ooze.


At the heart of science is an essential balance between two seemingly contradictory attitudes--an openness to new ideas, no matter how bizarre or counterintuitive they may be, and the most ruthless skeptical scrutiny of all ideas, old and new.
This is how deep truths are winnowed from deep nonsense. -- Carl Sagan

#6010    Hazzard

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 03:19 PM

So you are thinking alien intervention,... that we were seeded, like in the movie Prometheus?

I still await the compelling Exhibit A.

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*The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. -Edmund Burke

#6011    DONTEATUS

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 07:03 PM

ITs all in the Soup ! Were the Soup ! :tu:

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#6012    synchronomy

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 11:48 PM

View PostHazzard, on 16 September 2012 - 03:19 PM, said:

So you are thinking alien intervention,... that we were seeded, like in the movie Prometheus?

I can't imagine natural processes advancing from a few complex molecules, to a cell membrane enclosing even the most primitive DNA replication and cell division.  I'm of reasonable intelligence and I'm pretty well read...but I can't get my head around the spontaneous creation of life from natural events...although I do agree on evolution once life gets going.
On the divinity idea, I can't comprehend a supreme entity being bored silly one day and creating the Universe...even if it did take a week.  Sorry no offence to believers...I'm not criticizing you...I am speaking about my own personal beliefs.  Obviously the creation idea doesn't work for me.

So my current belief is panspermia with ET interference occasionally in our history to help out our evolution...so yes Prometheous is worth considering especially since the first Alien movie was based exactly on panspermia.

Isn't our species kind of proving panspermia if we have evolved and are now sending people and robots into space?

Also, Apollo 12 bringing back a piece of Surveyor which landed on the Moon a couple of years before them, had earth originating bacteria that survived space.

For me it seems plausible...but I still puzzle over how life began initially even if it was not here.  Perhaps somewhere in the universe there are natural forces we know nothing of...or perhaps other dimensions colliding with ours.

At the heart of science is an essential balance between two seemingly contradictory attitudes--an openness to new ideas, no matter how bizarre or counterintuitive they may be, and the most ruthless skeptical scrutiny of all ideas, old and new.
This is how deep truths are winnowed from deep nonsense. -- Carl Sagan

#6013    Hazzard

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 01:13 PM

As for the pieces Apollo 12 brought back from Surveyor,... On one sample (out of 33) they found Streptococcus mitis, but that positive detection of life may be the result of accidental contamination of the material after it was returned to Earth. I guess the jusy is still out on that one.

But yes, I hear what you are saying. If not intentional seeding, it could have gotten here with comets back in the days? Thats where I would put my money,... not all of it though. :D

Edited by Hazzard, 17 September 2012 - 01:18 PM.

I still await the compelling Exhibit A.

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*The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. -Edmund Burke

#6014    DONTEATUS

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 02:52 AM

Life finds a way ! IT always will IT always Has ! Just you wait until the Cats outta the Bag ! In our life time we will see life in the stars !

This is a Work in Progress!

#6015    psyche101

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 06:11 AM

View Postsynchronomy, on 16 September 2012 - 11:48 PM, said:

I can't imagine natural processes advancing from a few complex molecules, to a cell membrane enclosing even the most primitive DNA replication and cell division.  I'm of reasonable intelligence and I'm pretty well read...but I can't get my head around the spontaneous creation of life from natural events...although I do agree on evolution once life gets going.

But the Miller-Urey experiment was never supposed to illustrate this. It was a huge breakthrough to prove that the building blocks for life exist. I have a friend in IT who has the same ID ideals as you, he finds DNA too well coded to have "just happened" But if that is the case, wouldn't the amino acids that form the building blocks for life also have to be intelligently designed? Just how far does one delve into that rabbit hole?
I find the perfect symmetry of existence convincing evidence that complex structure do happen, they just start out very small.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who