147 replies to this topic

[Abramelin]

lightly, on 28 July 2010 - 12:12 PM, said:

Abramelin , Thanks a  lot for the info ... according to that image of the last glacial max,  it looks like N.Z.  was affected only on the higher altitudes by snow/ice accumulation, rather than being plowed over repeatedly by ice sheets  , as here in the Great Lakes...   But .. who knows.. the Ice ages waxed and waned for some 200 million years?)   i'll have to read most of the 2nd link later...  (too bad most of the images turn into question marks with this slow dial up connection! ! )....  i'll see if i can find a present day river that matches up with the submerged one.   Sort of doubt it tho.. because of the many smaller branches flowing together  to form the larger river .. in typical river fashion.
* ( Sorry for the detour again Riaan,  just interested in the river/ravine question)

Omg, you're on dial up??

Can you even see all the images posted inthis thread?

--

Well they surveyed the area, took samples, analyzed it, and came to the conclusion Zealandia submerged many millions of years ago. But the area with the rivers doesn't appear to be that far down (not as those 'rivers' in the Porcupine Seabight), so maybe they were indeed shaped by real rivers, many thousands of years ago.


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Edited by Abramelin, 28 July 2010 - 12:50 PM.

[Abramelin]

Hurray!!

Sorry, off topic again, but I found the animation of the Porcupine Seabight:

http://www.awi.de/no...echash=e424a57b

And I opened it with Windows Media Player.

It's from this site:

http://www.awi.de/en...bight_geomound/


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Edited by Abramelin, 28 July 2010 - 02:32 PM.

[Siara]

Abramelin, on 28 July 2010 - 10:43 AM, said:

Iceland was already on the maps during Zeno's time; Friesland island and a couple of other 'mythical' islands were placed near Iceland and Greenland on those maps.

I hope you read what was written before; personally I am convinced it was nothing but the Faroe Islands. And that's because of the place names and because the Faroer were inhabited by Frisian pirates.

It strikes me as possible that a coastline could be counted twice if someone's celestial navigation were off.  Say... their exploratory voyage was a loop.  They could have encountered Iceland during the first part of the loop, then when they were returning seen it again under different conditions, misread their sextants and thought, "Hey, here's another island shaped a bit like Iceland".

From the little I read about this yesterday (I did read the entire thread- I'm just not very sharp on this interesting topic) I gather that the Faroe Islands are considered a good bet for Frisland.

[Abramelin]

Siara, on 28 July 2010 - 02:39 PM, said:

It strikes me as possible that a coastline could be counted twice if someone's celestial navigation were off.  Say... their exploratory voyage was a loop.  They could have encountered Iceland during the first part of the loop, then when they were returning seen it again under different conditions, misread their sextants and thought, "Hey, here's another island shaped a bit like Iceland".

From the little I read about this yesterday (I did read the entire thread- I'm just not very sharp on this interesting topic) I gather that the Faroe Islands are considered a good bet for Frisland.

There appear to be like 3 options;

-1- The Zeno brothers fabricated it all;
-2- They made a mistake, much like you suggested;
-3- They gave it the name under which the island was known for many: Friesland Island, and all that because of those Frisian pirates that lived on it.


I just found this:

It is now known that the narrative was manufactured by the younger Zeno himself not long before the publication of the book, and the same is true of the map. So it does in no way reflect geographical knowledge in the 14th century. We now know that Zeno´s principal sources were Olaus Magnus´ map of the North, the Caerte van Oostland of Cornelis Anthoniszoon, and old maps of the North of the Claudius Clavus type with elements taken from southern sea charts of the 15th and 16th centuries. Zeno probably put the book and map together for the purpose of giving Venice, the author´s native city, the credit for discovering America more than a century ahead of Columbus. In the bottom left hand corner we see two lands (Estotiland and Drogeo) that perhaps represent the eastern coast of America.

As for Zeno´s Iceland, we need not look far to its sources, it is obviously taken from Carta Marina. The mountains, rivers and all the pictures are gone and the ice floes off the east coast on Olaus´ map have become islands.

In spite of its discreditable parentage, the Zeno map was to have a remarkable career. For the next 40 years it influenced most maps that were made of Iceland.


Edited Appletons Encyclopedia, by John Looby Copyright © 2001 StanKlos.comTM

http://www.famousame...net/nicolozen0/

[Riaan]

Abramelin, on 27 July 2010 - 10:24 PM, said:

What did I ask?

"(Riaan) Why is it that only you think that these 'rivers' must have been created when our ancestors were there to watch it happen??"

[Riaan]

Abramelin, on 28 July 2010 - 02:30 PM, said:

And I opened it with Windows Media Player.

I downloaded the file, but WMP tells me that my current settings "do not allow this action". Any idea what the problem could be?

[Abramelin]

Riaan, on 28 July 2010 - 07:25 PM, said:

I downloaded the file, but WMP tells me that my current settings "do not allow this action". Any idea what the problem could be?

You have the latest version?

[Riaan]

Abramelin, on 28 July 2010 - 07:29 PM, said:

You have the latest version?

Yes, indeed. Confirmed it again.

[Abramelin]

Riaan, on 28 July 2010 - 08:16 PM, said:

Yes, indeed. Confirmed it again.

I have a better idea than go through all this Windows headache.

I will copy the video, post it on YouTube, and then you can watch it.

How about that?

--

EDIT:

OK, done.

I have to add, though, that this is not the animation I originally watched. The original one was like flying over the surface of Mars.

But anyway, here it is:

Edited by Abramelin, 28 July 2010 - 08:47 PM.

[Riaan]

Abramelin, on 28 July 2010 - 08:34 PM, said:

I have a better idea than go through all this Windows headache.

I will copy the video, post it on YouTube, and then you can watch it.

How about that?

Great!

[Abramelin]

Heh, to you and everybody responding to my posts: WAIT till I am finished editing. I edit almost every post of mine.

Did you read my edit??

[Riaan]

Abramelin, on 28 July 2010 - 08:51 PM, said:

Heh, to you and everybody responding to my posts: WAIT till I am finished editing. I edit almost every post of mine.

Did you read my edit??

Yes, I did now. Very interesting video. Still convinced the river bed is just that!

[Abramelin]

Riaan, on 28 July 2010 - 09:23 PM, said:

Yes, I did now. Very interesting video. Still convinced the river bed is just that!

Well yeah, maybe you are right... a river bed... a many millions of years old river bed.

[Riaan]

Abramelin, on 28 July 2010 - 09:25 PM, said:

Well yeah, maybe you are right... a river bed... a many millions of years old river bed.

Yes, you are absolutely right. Two points,

1) When did the Porcupine Seabight become submerged? There is no proof that this happened millions of years ago. It could have happened 12 000 years ago.
2) The formation of the submarine canyons through turbidity currents is nonsense.

[Abramelin]

Riaan, on 28 July 2010 - 09:28 PM, said:

Yes, you are absolutely right. Two points,

1) When did the Porcupine Seabight become submerged? There is no proof that this happened millions of years ago. It could have happened 12 000 years ago.
2) The formation of the submarine canyons through turbidity currents is nonsense.

No, I quit now.

I am not going to do your work again, YOU claim something, now YOU prove it.

And you won´t prove anything with fancy and distorted maps.

Prove your claims with scientific documents, or continue living in dreamland.

I already have to deal with lots of people here who are too lazy or too stupid to Google or to read books.

I am getting quite fed up with that.

I am not your teacher, and certainly not your counseler.

Prove what you believe in, have some balls, search and find, or fail.

That's it.

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Edited by Abramelin, 28 July 2010 - 10:00 PM.