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Edgar Mitchell says a lot.......


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#31    Hazzard

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 02:32 PM

View Postbee, on 08 March 2013 - 02:04 PM, said:

Edgar Mitchell has said more than enough to satisfy...(under the circumstances)..regardless of how you try and downplay it......


Because of his historic position of being one of the few men who walked on the Moon, that's all the real naysayers can do...

downplay the message he is relaying to the public...

What message would that be, that everyone is entitled to their own opinions and belief? Because that is all he is "relaying to the public", moon walker or not.

I still await the compelling Exhibit A.

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#32    quillius

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 02:43 PM

View PostHazzard, on 08 March 2013 - 02:32 PM, said:

What message would that be, that everyone is entitled to their own opinions and belief? Because that is all he is "relaying to the public", moon walker or not.

hmmm I wonder why Mitchell doesnt spout about religion in the same way?

I assume you would put his belief in God and belief in the ETH as the same, yes?


#33    bee

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 02:55 PM

View PostHazzard, on 08 March 2013 - 02:32 PM, said:

What message would that be, that everyone is entitled to their own opinions and belief? Because that is all he is "relaying to the public", moon walker or not.


No.....(although everyone IS entitled to their own opinions and beliefs)


This  'message'....


Quote

'I happen to have been privileged enough to be in on the fact that we've been visited on this planet and the UFO phenomena is real,' Dr Mitchell said.
'It's been well covered up by all our governments for the last 60 years or so, but slowly it's leaked out and some of us have been privileged to have been briefed on some of it.


'I've been in military and intelligence circles, who know that beneath the surface of what has been public knowledge, yes - we have been visited.


and the rest of it....


http://www.dailymail...d-60-years.html


#34    DONTEATUS

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 03:19 PM

Such a wonderful world we all live upon,Opinions are like finger prints,No two are the same,maybe no One is the same,albeit there could be a little cloneing going on underground in New Mexico ! LOL! Bee is such a sweetie ans her opinion is as valid ,as Mitchell`s even if she cant remember walking on the moon witl all of us last year !
The best thing about people is at some time in there lifes we all come to understand that were all players in just our own reality.
And we all have wonderous realitys to explore !

But then AGAIN thats my reality ! justDONTEATUS :tu: :alien: :no: PLEASE !

This is a Work in Progress!

#35    quillius

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 03:21 PM

View PostDONTEATUS, on 08 March 2013 - 03:19 PM, said:

Such a wonderful world we all live upon,Opinions are like finger prints,No two are the same,maybe no One is the same,albeit there could be a little cloneing going on underground in New Mexico ! LOL! Bee is such a sweetie ans her opinion is as valid ,as Mitchell`s even if she cant remember walking on the moon witl all of us last year !
The best thing about people is at some time in there lifes we all come to understand that were all players in just our own reality.
And we all have wonderous realitys to explore !

But then AGAIN thats my reality ! justDONTEATUS :tu: :alien: :no: PLEASE !

:yes: :clap:


#36    JimOberg

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 03:29 PM

In assessing how credible any one person's opinion is on subject-X, that cannot be independently corroborated, it can be helpful to see if their opinion on subject-Y, can be independently checked. With Mitchell, I found that his views on Uri Geller, for example, helped determine his standards of evidence for paranormal topics, and his claims for his Apollo-14 ESP experiment success, show his creative flexibility in manipulating rules of evidence to appear to support a pre-desired outcome.


Do such measures appear reasonable and appropriate? Or is everybody's 'opinion' equally valid, or invalid?


How about moonwalker Jim Irwin's conviction that Noah's Ark is real, and can be found on Mount Ararat? Does he, with exactly the same credibility credentials as Mitchell, get a 'pass' at verification, and an automatic 'must-be-believed'?




#37    quillius

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 03:36 PM

View PostJimOberg, on 08 March 2013 - 03:29 PM, said:


In assessing how credible any one person's opinion is on subject-X, that cannot be independently corroborated, it can be helpful to see if their opinion on subject-Y, can be independently checked. With Mitchell, I found that his views on Uri Geller, for example, helped determine his standards of evidence for paranormal topics, and his claims for his Apollo-14 ESP experiment success, show his creative flexibility in manipulating rules of evidence to appear to support a pre-desired outcome.


Do such measures appear reasonable and appropriate? Or is everybody's 'opinion' equally valid, or invalid?


How about moonwalker Jim Irwin's conviction that Noah's Ark is real, and can be found on Mount Ararat? Does he, with exactly the same credibility credentials as Mitchell, get a 'pass' at verification, and an automatic 'must-be-believed'?



I do believe everyones opinion is equally valid.

and I think no person should be automatically believed, at the same time someone lying once doesnt mean they are automatically lying about the next 'thing'.

lets talk specifics Jim, what in the papers do you consider 'holes' or what exactly makes you reach said conclusions?

I may run out of time and will respond monday.)


#38    Paxus

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 04:26 PM

Doesn't Edgar Mitchell's opinion really depend on what the people he interviewed claimed?

It's one thing if a retired ex-military guy wants to get something off his chest and says, 'Hey Edgar, you know, I saw a UFO once while I was flying over xxxx', and another thing entirely if  they same guy said, 'Hey Edgar, you know we met with aliens out at the xxx base. They landed, got out and chatted with us for four hours before leaving...'

What exactly has he been told?


#39    Hazzard

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 04:35 PM

View PostJimOberg, on 08 March 2013 - 03:29 PM, said:

In assessing how credible any one person's opinion is on subject-X, that cannot be independently corroborated, it can be helpful to see if their opinion on subject-Y, can be independently checked. With Mitchell, I found that his views on Uri Geller, for example, helped determine his standards of evidence for paranormal topics, and his claims for his Apollo-14 ESP experiment success, show his creative flexibility in manipulating rules of evidence to appear to support a pre-desired outcome.


Do such measures appear reasonable and appropriate? Or is everybody's 'opinion' equally valid, or invalid?


How about moonwalker Jim Irwin's conviction that Noah's Ark is real, and can be found on Mount Ararat? Does he, with exactly the same credibility credentials as Mitchell, get a 'pass' at verification, and an automatic 'must-be-believed'?


Those are very good point, and they speak volumes (to me) about the mindset of men like these.

I still await the compelling Exhibit A.

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*The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. -Edmund Burke

#40    JimOberg

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 06:59 PM

The paper was published in June 1971 in the 'Journal of Parapsychology". I have a hard copy. I have asked permission from Dr. Mitchell to post a pdf of it on my website and he has not agreed.

The going-in flaw in my view is that the 'sendings' by him on Apollo-14, and the 'hearings' of volunteer psychics on earth, were not simultaneous, as had originally been planned. Due to a delay in the launch, and then due to personal scheduling problems of the several psychics, the 'hearings' were of different number, and different date/times, then the 'sendings'.

Mitchell tried various ways to pair them up, 'hearing' to 'sending'. First was to place them with the sendings closest in time afterwards. That resulted in essentially chance 'hits'. No good. Several other ad hoc assignments gave similar random chance results.

Next was to place each psychics 'hearings' sequentially with each of Mitchell's sendings. The resulting scored hits were significantly WRONGER than mere chance, a phenomenon that Mitchell said was called 'psi-missing', and it was proof that ESP worked.

This resulted in a number of the 'hearings' actually preceding the sendings that Mitchell matched them to, which Mitchell concluded was proof of precognition. It also placed several of the different psychic' 'hearings', that were near-simo in Earth time, with DIFFERENT sendings by Mitchell, which suggested to Mitchell that it showed some sort of preternatural intelligence 'steering' the signals he sent, to different receivers at different times and places.

Since Mitchell had earlier run a few Earth-only sending/hearing sessions, but never recorded results to serve as a control, and never repeated the experiment after his return, and had scored the 'hits' himself [instead of double-blind scoring by independent researchers], I concluded that the experiment -- innovative and pioneering as it was -- was scientifically meaningless.

Mitchell presents it as a successful demonstration of psi. I interpret it as a successful demonstration of experimenter wish-fulfillment.

In either case, the actual raw results (HOWEVER you choose to interpret their meaning) probably look a LOT different to you guys than the way it has been reported in the media for forty years, doesn't it?

Any mystery about why the raw results are not allowed on the Internet?


The following is a direct transcription of his words during a movie, "Mysteries of the Mind", which was produced in 1978 by Irving and Elda Hartley of "American National Enterprises" (and which was seen by at least a thousand times as many people than those who ever saw the dry, scientific report). Mitchell was the host and general narrator.

After the opening teaser scenes, the introductory narrator goes on to say: "Interest in psychic phenomenon extends beyond the general public to exceptional individuals like our commentator, astronaut Edgar Mitchell."

Mitchell's voice then comes on, with scenes of the Apollo-14 moon mission providing dramatic visual support. Intoned the astronaut:

"On February 5, 1971, I became the sixth man to set foot on the Moon. That's me bouncing up to Al Shepard to help him set up the flag. After the flag-raising and picture taking, we set up several experiments to help NASA gather data about the Moon and outer space. But during my rest periods I did a few experiments of my own in the exploration of inner space. At certain predetermined times on the trip to and from the Moon I tried to transmit symbols, such as a star or a circle, to four people back on Earth by means of telepathy. The odds against the score we obtained were three thousand to one. When I later computed the relative success of my attempts to send thoughts back to Earth from outer space, it helped confirm for me that there are dimensions of the mind that we know little about."

Also, more details at




Issue 5 Evil Winter 2001/02

Private Lunar ESP: An Interview with Edgar Mitchell

Fia Backström and Edgar Mitchell

http://cabinetmagazi...ssues/5/esp.php
Fia Backström is an artist based in New York.
excerpt:

How were you able to coordinate with the people on earth?
We didn't. We tried to coordinate but we were off. That didn't seem to make any difference. We took off forty minutes late but I didn't try for an exact time anyway, just in the evening. We now understand why that should work, because the sequence is important but having the precise time is not.
JimO: Note that he does not explain the arbitrary and internally inconsistent assignment of hearing sessions to sending sessions, and the role that his own judgment AFTEr the experiment in making those choices.


Edited by JimOberg, 08 March 2013 - 07:13 PM.


#41    Valdemar the Great

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 08:51 PM

View Postquillius, on 08 March 2013 - 02:31 PM, said:


So using that logic may I ask if you would find Zosers beliefs more 'credible' than Mitchells on the ETH simply based on the fact that Zoser also doesnt subscribe to any of the mentioned above areas?


I wouldn't bet on it .... :innocent:

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#42    mcrom901

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 08:22 AM

http://rationalwiki....ki/Chuck_Norris

:gun:


#43    Saitung

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 11:56 PM

Mankind is presumably the most dominant, and intelligent, (Relatively speaking) species on the planet. As such we both know and understand we have only been here in our present state for about 4 million years. The planet is some 4.5 BILLION years old. So this leaves an almost unimaginable gap for almost unimaginable things to have occurred. So why, pre-tell-me, does mankind think it has the sum total knowledge and have covered the all-encompassing measure of what constitutes physical life and our physical laws? In other words, there are still aspects to the laws of physics that exist and that may be employed by older civilizations, that mankind has yet to discover. So, as a race that is really so young they amount to kindergarteners, how can there be such arrogance as to make such statements as an event being impossible. The truth of what is happening here is maintaining a comfort zone. I have found that above all, humans want to be comfortable. And in that comfort not be disturbed. So the longer this stage of comfort exists, the harder it is for people to relinquish said comfort. This was evident in the 1950's in the United States during the racial tensions. The older populace was actually scared to death of the new changes coming in the air. The younger generation for the most part, had little to no working knowledge that tied them to the past ways, the way things USED to be. Today, the mindset is the same, how unnerving to some to come to the realization that earth may be little more than a Cosmic Petri dish and we have no way of every knowing and seeing those peering from behind the microscope, until they want us to. So, for men of science it is easier by far to say something doesn't exist without proof. As how could bacteria in a Petri dish ever hope to prove the existence of the CDC technician studying it from behind the microscope?


#44    psyche101

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 12:39 AM

View Postbee, on 08 March 2013 - 02:04 PM, said:

Actually....it could be seen as a breach to say that...IMO.

Your opinion does not matter, it is not a breach of the law, and other so called whistleblowers not to mention every second person who lives in Roswell have made that very statement.

View Postbee, on 08 March 2013 - 02:04 PM, said:

All the interviews he has done...all the conferences he has spoken at...I'd say he was and is more than happy to share what he has to say.

You try and make out that he was pushed into the limelight on these issues....kicking and screaming,

but it is obvious that he wanted to tell the public these things...

You could try listening to what Edgar has to say. He was not keen to come forth, people he had known his entire life felt he was trustworthy and did indeed approach him. I am not making out anything, I am relaying exactly what has n=been said, you are making out there is more to his words than one sees at face value. He says people literally tugged at his sleeve to hold him up to tell him their stories.



H+: Did you see anything alien on the Moon when you were there?

EDGAR MITCHELL: No, not at all.



H+: Were you ever officially briefed by the government about UFOs?
EM: No. Not at all.


H+: So the “briefing” you had with the Admiral of the Intelligence Committee for the Joint Chiefs of Staff — that was you briefing them on what you had been told, and not the other way around?
EM: Right.  Let me give you the whole story, from the very beginning.
From the beginning, of course, is that I grew up in the Pecos River Valley, near Roswell.  I was going into my senior year of high school, in 1947, when the so-called “Roswell Incident” took place.  It appeared in the Roswell Daily Record one day that an alien craft had crashed.  However, on the next day, it was reported to be a “weather balloon.”  And that was the end of that, as far as I was concerned.  I was on my way off to college, and I wasn’t concerned about this thing at all.
However, many years later, once I had been to the Moon and back, even though my family no longer lived in the Pecos River Valley, I went back there on a speaking tour.  I guess since I’d been to the Moon, and was a local boy, it made me somewhat credible.  I was grabbed by several of the local “old timers” who were there in 1947 during the Roswell incident and were involved in it in one way or another.  (These folks will remain nameless, even though they’re all dead now.)  They’d tug at my sleeve at some event and say “can I talk to you a minute?”  Then they would tell me their story about how they were involved in either the recovering of bodies, or directing traffic, or some such thing.  They felt for sure that it was a real alien event.  They didn’t want to go to the grave with their knowledge and considered me a safe source to tell.  They pulled on my sleeve to say, “I want to tell you about it.”
H+: How many different people over the years tugged at your arm and told you they were at Roswell?
EM: I guess there were about 4 or 5 of these folks that were either involved — closely involved — or descendants of people who were involved.
H+: And when was this?
EM: It was shortly after I came back from the Moon, when I was back in town on speaking engagements.  I didn’t do much with the information  until 1997, when Dr. Stephen Greer, from the Disclosure Project, contacted me.

View Postbee, on 08 March 2013 - 02:04 PM, said:

Edgar Mitchell has said more than enough to satisfy...(under the circumstances)..regardless of how you try and downplay it......


Because of his historic position of being one of the few men who walked on the Moon, that's all the real naysayers can do...

downplay the message he is relaying to the public...



.

I am not downplaying anything Bee, you are doing what the papers are, and taking one line from a sentence and making the rest up. You are embellishing and exaggerating Edgars words to build up a fantasy that in reality does not exist.

What does he say about walking on the moon Bee?


H+: Did you see anything alien on the Moon when you were there?

EDGAR MITCHELL: No, not at all.

You can try to make a mountain out of a molehill all you like, but at the end of the day, it's still a molehill. And the fact that some locals at Roswell completely believe the saucer crash story is really no revelation.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.


#45    synchronomy

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 01:35 AM

A good chunk of this mess is that Mitchell was duped by Greer.  Greer lost so much credibility in recent years that that Mitchell has made it clear publicly that he has distanced himself from him because of Greer's radical and unproven theories and claims.  Snakeoil.
I think Mitchell made a good choice...I'll bet he doesn't have one of these on his phone...from Greer's latest:
Posted Image

At the heart of science is an essential balance between two seemingly contradictory attitudes--an openness to new ideas, no matter how bizarre or counterintuitive they may be, and the most ruthless skeptical scrutiny of all ideas, old and new.
This is how deep truths are winnowed from deep nonsense. -- Carl Sagan




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