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[Merged] Gobekli Tepe


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#301    kmt_sesh

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 09:39 PM

There's no reason to have three separate Göbekli Tepe threads running at the same time. I've merged the two oldest into a single thread. I would ask posters not to start a brand-new Göbekli Tepe thread any time in the near future, so long as this one is still active.

Thanks.

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#302    docyabut2

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 12:03 AM

L qoute-With 3 opened Gobekli Tepe thread I dont know where to put this. Maybe someone mention it before.

Balearic slingers become well known in Punic Wars when thy were under  Hannibal. Although far as I know they didnt been crucial in one of my favpurite battles at Cannea. Anyway those precise slingers came from Balearic Islands. They ancestors were Talaiots. Talaiotic culture emerged during Iron age although no one know exactly when. As I understand from 2000-1000 BC. Some  link them with Sardinian nuraghes.  Talaiots built many walls, towers, pyramid like tombs and carved caves to made them look like realy nice place. Anyway, reason why Im telling all this is that on Balearic Island we can find similarites with Gobekli Tepe such as „T“ shape monoliths.

Posted Image


Its what I`ve been trying to say ever since I joined this forum.  The T stones at Gobeki Tepe are so similar to the ones on the Balearic Islands.


Posted Image
Balearic Islands



The  stones at the other sites in Turkey are different.They are not what  I would considered T stones.


http://www.thecultur...2003/turkey.htm


http://www.ancient-w...urkeynevali.htm

Edited by docyabut2, 09 October 2012 - 12:17 AM.


#303    docyabut2

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 12:37 AM

looked at the other sites none have those T stones


http://www.ancient-w...key.htm#turkish sites


#304    The Puzzler

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 01:14 AM

Posted Image
http://www.abovetops.../pg#pid15035654

on the Balearic Islands. Some impressive megaliths indeed.

In an mmm bop it's gone...

#305    Big Bad Voodoo

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 05:31 AM

View Postdocyabut2, on 09 October 2012 - 12:37 AM, said:

looked at the other sites none have those T stones


http://www.ancient-w...key.htm#turkish sites

Yes, I noticed that on Balearic islands we can found caves such as in Turkey, Derinkuyu.

This is from Balearic Islands

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#306    Abramelin

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 08:34 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 01 October 2012 - 03:56 PM, said:

The mystery of Catal Huyuk's Shaman culture has further prompted the belief that the city is actually part of a much greater and older legacy in the Middle East, a shamanistic civilization that originated within the last Ice Age. James Mellart even concluded that the traditions and customs of Catal Huyuk, given the complete maturity and complexity that the culture seemed to exhibit right from the beginning, most likely descended from "an Upper Paleolithic culture, probably Anatolian, of which hardly anything is known." Mellart of course said that during the 1960's, before the discovery of more recent finds now coming to light, including a magnificent set of circular stone temples at Gobekli Tepe, dated to 10,000BC. Coincidentally, Gobekli Tepe's final occupational horizon ends around 7000BC, the same time that Catal Huyuk first arose near Konya not very far away.

Mellart is one of several prehistorians linking the religious symbolism present at Catal Huyuk to that of later Minoan Crete and the earliest forms of Greek religion and myth; although over three thousand years separate the two, Mellart believes that there are enough symbolic parallels to justify a common ancestor. Marija Gimbutas similarly argued in favor of Mellart’s ideas, positing that the Minoan Cretes inherited the traditions of the civilization of Old Europe, the Neolithic Greco-Balkan complex, with which Catal Huyuk played an important part.

Carbon-14 dates show that Knossos, the earliest settlement known on Crete, arose around 6100 BC, a date contemporary with early levels at Catal Huyuk. At base level, evidence of sheep, goat, cattle, and pig, as well as the most "advanced grains of the day", prompts archaeologists studying Knossos to conclude that the founders of Crete arrived by sea with animals and crops already well domesticated. Also, given that the same domesticates occur slightly earlier in western Anatolia, scholars conclude that a departure from west Anatolia to Crete is the most likely course of migration into the Aegean.

If the same unknown “Upper Paleolithic ancestor” even earlier sired the traditions of Catal Huyuk, and later Neolithic Old Europe and Minoan Crete, as Mellart contends, Plato’s vanished Athenians and other prehistoric Greeks mentioned in the philosopher’s Timaeus dialogues might appear to be possible candidates.


http://alternativear...com/catal-huyuk

A bit more about a relation between ancient Crete and ancient Anatolia:


DNA sheds light on Minoans

Crete’s fabled Minoan civilization was built by people from Anatolia, according to a new study by Greek and foreign scientists that disputes an earlier theory that said the Minoans’ forefathers had come from Africa.

The new study – a collaboration by experts in Greece, the USA, Canada, Russia and Turkey – drew its conclusions from the DNA analysis of 193 men from Crete and another 171 from former neolithic colonies in central and northern Greece.

The results show that the country’s neolithic population came to Greece by sea from Anatolia – modern-day Iran, Iraq and Syria – and not from Africa as maintained by US scholar Martin Bernal.

The DNA analysis indicates that the arrival of neolithic man in Greece from Anatolia coincided with the social and cultural upsurge that led to the birth of the Minoan civilization, Constantinos Triantafyllidis of Thessaloniki’s Aristotle University told Kathimerini.

“Until now we only had the archaeological evidence – now we have genetic data too and we can date the DNA,” he said.

Archeological dates for the colonisation of Crete are about 7,000 BC.

In more detail...

(...)

They identified J2a parent haplogroup J2a-M410 (Crete: 25.9%) with the first ancient residents of Crete during the Neolithic (8500 BCE – 4300 BCE) suggesting Crete was founded by a Neolithic population expansion from ancient Turkey/Anatolia. Specifically, the researchers connected the source population of ancient Crete to well known Neolithic sites of ancient Anatolia: Asıklı Höyük, Çatalhöyük, Hacılar, Mersin/Yumuktepe, and Tarsus. Haplogroup J2b-M12 (Crete: 3.1%; Greece: 5.9%) was associated with Neolithic Greece. Haplogroups J2a1h-M319 (8.8%) and J2a1b1-M92 (2.6%) were associated with the Minoan culture linked to a late Neolithic/ Early Bronze Age migration to Crete ca. 3100 BCE from North-Western/Western Anatolia and Syro-Palestine (ancient Canaan, Levant, and pre-Akkadian Anatolia); Aegean prehistorians link the date 3100 BCE to the origins of the Minoan culture on Crete.


http://mathildasanth...ns-dna-and-all/
http://onlinelibrary....20857/abstract


#307    docyabut2

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 12:30 PM

All fine and good on how it all relates, however still does not explain, how hunters and gathers when frist comming out of the caves, could build a struture that perfect before any other culture on earth. Just like the evolution of the pyramid, there are these small tiny stone hills built in a form of a pyamid found in Africa that developed into the makings of the great pyramids, so where are were the frist taulas made? The idea had to have come from somewhere.


http://www.spanishar...a/i_taulas.html


#308    Abramelin

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 01:06 PM

View Postdocyabut2, on 11 October 2012 - 12:30 PM, said:

All fine and good on how it all relates, however still does not explain, how hunters and gathers when frist comming out of the caves, could build a struture that perfect before any other culture on earth. Just like the evolution of the pyramid, there are these small tiny stone hills built in a form of a pyamid found in Africa that developed into the makings of the great pyramids, so where are were the frist taulas made? The idea had to have come from somewhere.


http://www.spanishar...a/i_taulas.html

In trying to find out where it came from, it is also important to know where it went to.

And the suggestion is Göbekli Tepe (and the others of similar age in Anatolia) >> Çatalhöyük (and others of similar age) >>> Crete/Aegean.

+++

EDIT:

There's a gap of like 7000 years between the Göbekli pillars and those in Menorca (from your link).

.

Edited by Abramelin, 11 October 2012 - 01:18 PM.


#309    Harte

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 01:41 PM

View Postdocyabut2, on 11 October 2012 - 12:30 PM, said:

All fine and good on how it all relates, however still does not explain, how hunters and gathers when frist comming out of the caves, could build a struture that perfect before any other culture on earth.
The bolded phrase above makes yours a straw-man argument.

You claim that man was "first coming out of caves" at that time in order that you might make what is actually a false argument.

Quote

According to a theory proposed by Professor Helmut Ziegert, and reported in today’s ‘Times’our ancient forebears, Homo erectus, constructed the first settlements known to mankind, at a time when such behaviour has popularly been considered too advanced for Acheulian equipped people, who lived 400,000 years ago.[/b]


Helmut Ziegert, of the Institute of Archaeology at Hamburg University, says that the evidence can be found at excavated sites in North and East Africa, in the remains of stone huts and tools created by upright man for fishing and butchery.


Professor Ziegert claims that the thousands of blades, scrapers, hand axes and other tools found at sites such as Budrinna, on the shore of the extinct [b]Lake Fezzan

in southwest Libya, and at Melka Konture, along the River Awash in Ethiopia, provide evidence of organised societies.

Source

and

Quote

Posted Image The first houses were thought to be windbreaks made of animals skins stretched over a frame. There is evidence that Homo Erectus constructed 50-foot-long branch huts with stone slabs or animal skins for floors.
Posted Image The oldest recognized buildings in the world are twelve 400,000-year-old huts found in Nice, France in 1960. Uncovered by an excavator preparing to build a new house, the oval shelters ranged from 26 feet to 49 feet in length and were between 13 feet and 20 feet wide. They were built of 3-inch in diameter stakes and braced by a ring of stones. Longer poles were set around the perimeter as supports. The huts had hearths and pebble-lined pits and were defined by stake holes.
Posted Image Ancient humans thought to be Homo erectus that lived 350,000 years ago near present-day Bilzingsleben, East Germany constructed shelters similar to those of Bushmen in southern Africa. Circular bone and stone foundations were discovered for three huts between 9 and 13 feet across. In the middle of on circle, archaeologist found an elephant tusk, which they speculated was a center post.

Source

As you can infer from the above, even Homo Erectus, our evolutionary forebears, constructed shelters.  Maybe you can see now why your claim is completely empty.

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#310    Abramelin

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 01:55 PM

Interesting find, Harte.

But the Terra Amata hut appears to be controversial (dating and construction):

http://en.wikipedia....ver_Terra_Amata


#311    Harte

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 02:00 PM

It's all controversial, sure.

But to state that Man was "just coming out of caves" 7,000 years ago is not controversial, it's just ignorant.

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#312    kmt_sesh

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 03:36 PM

View Postdocyabut2, on 11 October 2012 - 12:30 PM, said:

All fine and good on how it all relates, however still does not explain, how hunters and gathers when frist comming out of the caves, could build a struture that perfect before any other culture on earth. Just like the evolution of the pyramid, there are these small tiny stone hills built in a form of a pyamid found in Africa that developed into the makings of the great pyramids, so where are were the frist taulas made? The idea had to have come from somewhere.


http://www.spanishar...a/i_taulas.html

It's been mentioned several times in the various Göbekli Tepe threads, but I wouldn't be surprised if you missed it. Having three different threads running concurrently on the same topic is too much, which is why I merged a couple of them. No sane person could follow the progress of all three at the same time. Well, I couldn't, and I consider myself sane.

Anyway, what you see at Göbekli Tepe today is only the last stage of development for that site. Building activities had occurred there for well more than a millennium, so it may not be immediately evident but Göbekli Tepe also underwent a long period of evolution in building activities.

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#313    Abramelin

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 04:12 PM

View Postkmt_sesh, on 11 October 2012 - 03:36 PM, said:

It's been mentioned several times in the various Göbekli Tepe threads, but I wouldn't be surprised if you missed it. Having three different threads running concurrently on the same topic is too much, which is why I merged a couple of them. No sane person could follow the progress of all three at the same time. Well, I couldn't, and I consider myself sane.

Anyway, what you see at Göbekli Tepe today is only the last stage of development for that site. Building activities had occurred there for well more than a millennium, so it may not be immediately evident but Göbekli Tepe also underwent a long period of evolution in building activities.

I actually posted about proof of occupation in one of the mentioned Anatolian settlements that antedated the famous constructions for about a couple of thousand years.


#314    lightly

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 02:23 AM

View Postkmt_sesh, on 11 October 2012 - 03:36 PM, said:

It's been mentioned several times in the various Göbekli Tepe threads, but I wouldn't be surprised if you missed it. Having three different threads running concurrently on the same topic is too much, which is why I merged a couple of them. No sane person could follow the progress of all three at the same time. Well, I couldn't, and I consider myself sane.

Anyway, what you see at Göbekli Tepe today is only the last stage of development for that site. Building activities had occurred there for well more than a millennium, so it may not be immediately evident but Göbekli Tepe also underwent a long period of evolution in building activities.

i was following along quite easily. :w00t:       but .. the merger was a good idea.

  Was it something like 3 thousand years  that the site had been used?    kmt, or anyone... kmt_sesh may be busy doing moderator stuff  ;)

Important:  The above may contain errors, inaccuracies, omissions, and other limitations.

#315    cormac mac airt

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 02:38 AM

View Postlightly, on 12 October 2012 - 02:23 AM, said:

i was following along quite easily. :w00t:    but .. the merger was a good idea.

Was it something like 3 thousand years  that the site had been used? kmt, or anyone... kmt_sesh may be busy doing moderator stuff  ;)

One thousand years, IIRC.

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