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Citizen Hearing on Disclosure


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#181    psyche101

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 07:39 AM

View Postconspiracy buff, on 19 June 2013 - 04:47 AM, said:

I'm just pointing out the obvious here, but you seem to almost ridicule those who believe in the UFO/ET phenomena.  Can't we all believe as we choose to?  I get that you want someone to give direct proof and you don't believe in most of what is posted.  Which is admirable.  However, you cannot dismiss the whole field of Ufology just because no one has given "the smoking gun" or direct proof.  

Belief is fine, everyone is entitled to their own belief nobody is entitled to their own proof.

What I want is not to be taken as a fool, and that is what people like Bee and Zoser try to do to me. Take me for some fool that will believe something that I know is not true.

I want to share what I know, and I hope to learn from others, andI do, just never from an ETH'er, the only real lessons I have learned here have come from those that are generally deemed to be "skeptics" whom I personally refer to as "critical thinkers".

View Postconspiracy buff, on 19 June 2013 - 04:47 AM, said:

There have been admitted hoaxes and those cases do make it harder for the others to be taken seriously.  

Yes there is, but I am not really bothered with the comic relief side of the ETH, which be pretty much anything you read on a UFOlogy website.
The stuff I want to learn does not come from some crackpot who claims to have had babies with aliens. Such is indeed, beneath me, take that as arrogant if you will, I have no time for time wasters. It is why you rarely see me in personal experience threads or the reports and sightings section of this very forum. If that is how people want to entertain themselves, so be it, I have other options to explore.

View Postconspiracy buff, on 19 June 2013 - 04:47 AM, said:

There have been ALOT of people in the last 100 years or so alone giving us their stories to convince even the most hardened skeptic that this is real and something is going on that governments don't want to share their knowledge on.  

Indeed, but I do not want to be convinced with tales. I think if you cannot prove it, don't make stuff up, just keep your mouth shut. I have always said I feel there are two types of believer, and I am not interested in the hysterical ones. You have the Hawkings, The Sagans, the Fremis, the Dysons, the Drakes, then you have the Friedman's, the Lazars, the Adamskis' the Goodchilds.

From what I can see, one lot has a clue, one lot wishes they had a clue, so they make stuff up to seem important, and to the gullible they do seem important. I am not one of the gullible.


View Postconspiracy buff, on 19 June 2013 - 04:47 AM, said:

Now what that is, is open to debate.  

Yes, not conclusion, It seems painfully obvious to me that such a wide ranging phenomena with so many descriptions is more than likely to also have a range of answers. From what I see, ET has not even legally made the table, some credulous zealots shoehorned him into position is all.

View Postconspiracy buff, on 19 June 2013 - 04:47 AM, said:

But there have been cases where trace evidence, sightings, and unexplained elements are left giving us the clear impression that this is quite real.  

Real, but not by any means or lengths alien, and that is not as hard to determine as some make out.

View Postconspiracy buff, on 19 June 2013 - 04:47 AM, said:

So are all of these people simply crazy?  Or are they simple recounting what they honestly saw and reported?  

Some are crazy, some want attention  some sought it, some just made it up to be cool, and some enjoy taking advantage of others. Some are simple misidentification, some are things I am sure that have not been catalogued yet. But without these things ever actually going into space, and considering that vastenss of space, what we have does not seem to be spaceships at all so then yes, the remaining tiny percentage (0.05%?) that create very wild stories and insist they are true are crazy or lying. Like the woman how has orgasmic experiences and travels the entire solar system in a night with her alien lovers. She is lying. Or crazy. No two ways about it. Why kid ourselves? So we do not hurt someones feelings??


View Postconspiracy buff, on 19 June 2013 - 04:47 AM, said:

Skeptics often want to say it is a case of crazies trying to get attention and while some are guilty of doing it for personal gain, not all of these people are.

No, that is right, I agree with that, but sometimes it is not crazy, or a simple mistake, sometimes it is a nefarious angle. There are far too many varied reasons to discount man as the common denominator here.

View Postconspiracy buff, on 19 June 2013 - 04:47 AM, said:

Back to Edgar Mitchell again?  Wow, you cannot let that go can you?  Is that an obsession or something?  That you are such a skeptic that you'll ridicule anyone for anything and go to extremes to be right all the time?  

I am not the one who got all up in arms, nor the one to bring Dr Mitchell into the conversation if you go back through the thread for a look. All I am doing is calling out the people who are lying about his actual words and posting his statements. Why do you object to that?

View Postconspiracy buff, on 19 June 2013 - 04:47 AM, said:

That is sad really and typical of skeptics looking down their noses on believers.

Zoser said "Throw your textbooks away, your intuition is all you need. The Academics have done nothing but lie to you all along."

Bee outright lied when she some of Dr Mitchell's "First Hand Knowledge" all I had to do was quote the man where he himself says "I have no firsthand knowledge"

And you think it is unwarranted still? What would you do if a skeptic gave you advice of that calibre?

Edited by psyche101, 19 June 2013 - 08:03 AM.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.


#182    bee

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 09:49 AM

View Postpsyche101, on 11 June 2013 - 02:18 AM, said:

(Edgar Mitchell) I, nor any crew I was on (I was on three Apollo crews), received any briefing before or after flights on UFO events, saw anything in space suggesting UFOs or structures on the moon, etc. We did it just like we said in official reports. My only claim to knowledge of these events is from the individuals, mostly of yesteryear, who were in government, intelligence, or military; were there, saw what they saw, and now believe it should be made public. But I claim no first hand knowledge, nor have any. Pass it on to the rest of the net, if you will.

--Edgar Mitchell



.....in the very quote you give...Mitchell says....when talking about  Roswell, that his only claim to knowledge of the events...ie Roswell...


"............is from individuals, mostly of yesteryear, who were in government, intelligence, or military; were there, saw what they

saw and now believe it should be made public......."


Admiral Wilson wasn't there and didn't see anything because.....


http://en.wikipedia....homas_R._Wilson

Quote

Thomas Ray Wilson was born on March 4, 1946 in Columbus, Ohio, and raised in the small community of Groveport, Ohio.





View Postpsyche101, on 14 June 2013 - 01:15 AM, said:

Then ask him.

In other words -  a made up source. No names, no places, nothing, just assurances. Edgar Mitchell know about as much about the Roswell Incident as you do. Which is the medias version of events.


and here is you calling Edgar Mitchell a liar and accusing him of making up sources....tut tut


View Postpsyche101, on 17 June 2013 - 09:25 AM, said:

Go ahead and prove it is not Admiral WIlson.


The quote from you at the top of this post proves it was not Admiral Wilson....

Its anyone's guess why you are being so obtuse and stubborn about it....



But I doubt even your own quote will satisfy the master of spin ....


The mere mention of Edgar Mitchell sends you off on one....and you go into spam mode... :lol:







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#183    Scudbuster

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 10:06 AM

View Postpsyche101, on 19 June 2013 - 02:48 AM, said:

Mr. believer, I am not baiting you into anything, I am pointing out Dr Mitchell's actual words. Do you believe Edgar Mitchell when he says:


(Edgar Mitchell) I, nor any crew I was on (I was on three Apollo crews), received any briefing before or after flights on UFO events, saw anything in space suggesting UFOs or structures on the moon, etc. We did it just like we said in official reports. My only claim to knowledge of these events is from the individuals, mostly of yesteryear, who were in government, intelligence, or military; were there, saw what they saw, and now believe it should be made public. But I claim no first hand knowledge, nor have any. Pass it on to the rest of the net, if you will. --Edgar Mitchell

See what Dr. Mitchell himself states about his own firsthand knowledge?

If you lack the fortitude to follow the provided link to the provided information, and prefer to make up you own interpretations such as Bee opted to do, then I will continue to point out that you too are misquoting the man only to achieve your own personal agenda.


Only 95%?

I have absolutely no problem with that statement. It's all the others relative to Roswell he's made that I find quite intriguing.  

Ah, "fortitude" you say? This from the guy that refuses to "YouTube"??


#184    bee

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 10:07 AM

View PostScudbuster, on 19 June 2013 - 12:31 AM, said:

Excellent points Bee - and I'll gladly believe someone like an Edgar Mitchell.  With all his connections and personal observations over the years, his personal credibility factor vs the naysayers and their usual dribble - "ah no way, ya gotta prove this, ya gotta prove that" kinda crap - is off the scale.


cheers Scudbuster......

I've said it before and I'll say it again....EM would not go public in the way he has unless he was sure of his facts...

Psyche is indulging some sort of uber-sceptic fantasy when it comes to EM....but he isn't fooling anyone...


View Postconspiracy buff, on 19 June 2013 - 04:47 AM, said:

Back to Edgar Mitchell again?  Wow, you cannot let that go can you?  Is that an obsession or something?  That you are such a skeptic that you'll ridicule anyone for anything and go to extremes to be right all the time?  That is sad really and typical of skeptics looking down their noses on believers.


:tu:



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#185    bee

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 10:16 AM

View PostScudbuster, on 19 June 2013 - 10:06 AM, said:

I have absolutely no problem with that statement. It's all the others relative to Roswell he's made that I find quite intriguing.  

Ah, "fortitude" you say? This from the guy that refuses to "YouTube"??

only when it suits him....:)


Refusing to YouTube is like refusing to go into a library because you don't agree with what EVERY book says...




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#186    bee

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 11:04 AM

View Postpsyche101, on 19 June 2013 - 01:42 AM, said:

,  The woman who thinks the US developed a Death Ray and shot down the Roswell saucer. You see, the more whacky a claim  the more Bee likes it,


When a Senior Research Scientist from Lockheed Martin Skunk Works says what he says about Roswell...

what he has been told by 'a very dear friend'..a navy doctor....then I think it is worthy of serious consideration...

Although I personally think Bushman probably had more to corroborate this info...but he can't speak about

any more (re Roswell) because of legal restrictions re. secrecy oaths..



He is obviously a very clever man....  

http://www.patentgen...wisvilleTX.html




(bit about Roswell starts at 2:22)







feel free to post that podcast that you usually drag out at this point...erroneously believing it backs your uber-sceptic fantasy point of view...

I haven't listened to it for a while...


:geek:



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#187    DONTEATUS

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 04:21 PM

Auh ! The Old Gravity bit again ? Everybody knows theres no Gravity ! The Earth Sucks !

This is a Work in Progress!

#188    Colonel Rhubarb

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 07:58 PM

yay it's our old friend Bob again! :)

Life is a hideous business, and from the background behind what we know of it peer daemoniacal hints of truth which make it sometimes a thousandfold more hideous.

H. P. Lovecraft.


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#189    psyche101

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 03:11 AM

View Postbee, on 19 June 2013 - 09:49 AM, said:

.....in the very quote you give...Mitchell says....when talking about  Roswell, that his only claim to knowledge of the events...ie Roswell...


"............is from individuals, mostly of yesteryear, who were in government, intelligence, or military; were there, saw what they

saw and now believe it should be made public......."


Admiral Wilson wasn't there and didn't see anything because.....


http://en.wikipedia....homas_R._Wilson

Hi Bee

I am bored of you now, so I will just spell it out for you OK?


Remember when you got your panties in a twist over this?


View Postbee, on 17 June 2013 - 10:38 AM, said:

easy.....
Edgar Mitchell's actual words....
http://blog.blogtalk...ecord-straight/


note...'some of the old timers from THAT PERIOD, some locals AND OTHERS MILITARY AND INTELLIGENCE PEOPLE, who were under

rather severe oaths......'


Now not the English, which I refuse to accept you struggle with as much as you make out.

See how it says:

old timers from that period

Understand? old timers are the time reference? Now lets move along shall we.

AND OTHERS, do you under stand that is ANOTHER situation? The "And Others" Bit? Get it now? Read slower.

Se we have locals from the time frame AND others, military and intelligence. I see Quillius could not watch you bumble along any further so he handed you the intelligence person, on a platter. That being Jesse Marcel. Not we get the the AND OTHERS Military part of the statement, who were remember now:

Under severe oaths.

Remember having your knickers in a twist over that ambiguous statement.


Astronaut Edgar Mitchell has revealed to me what he believes
is the reason that Admiral Wilson is now denying what he
previously said.

He refers me to an article in Jane's Defence Weekly entitled
"Pentagon's Hidden Budget" by defense analyst Bill Sweetman
in which he discusses Special Access Programs in great
detail.
www.janes.com...

Dr Mitchell points to a quote from that article:

"An unacknowledged SAP - a black program - is a program
which is considered so sensitive that the fact of its existence is a
'core secret', defined in USAF regulations as 'any item, progress,
strategy or element of information, the compromise of which
would result in unrecoverable failure'. In other words, revealing
the existence of a black program would undermine its military
value."

Dr Mitchell told me: "The UFO program that the admiral
sought would be in this category. Thus by law he would be required to
deny the existence of such a program. For a core secret SAP, even a
"no comment" would be a breach of security."




Breach of security = breaking severe oath, and a military man.

Is that plain and simply enough for you? I am bored of placing hints right under your nose and giving you links to the answer, obviously I have to even cut and paste it for you. Good God woman.

View Postbee, on 19 June 2013 - 09:49 AM, said:

and here is you calling Edgar Mitchell a liar and accusing him of making up sources....tut tut

No I did not, I said his source was a made up source, I.E anonymous and impossible to trace. No good to anybody. And I said he knows the media version of events. Do you deny that? What are his sources of information, and what does the media contrived ETH use for their story as sources?

Any halfwit moron can work out that headlines sell paper's, not descriptions of mundane events. So they tend to flock to outrageous claimants for shock value, which in turn sells papers. Why just yesterday I noted a paper indicating that they think these guys have a screw loose as well. I have given links that prove papers embellish UFO tales on purpose. And what sources do Edgar Mitchell and the papers have in common? Bob Lazar, Glenn Dennis, The Marcels, etc etc. and the does the paper's fictional version come from? Bob Lazar, Glenn Dennis, The Marcels, etc etc.

So it seem only fair to bundle the two together.

View Postbee, on 19 June 2013 - 09:49 AM, said:

The quote from you at the top of this post proves it was not Admiral Wilson....

Its anyone's guess why you are being so obtuse and stubborn about it....

No it does not, all you have proven is that you did not read the posts, you did not consider the provided information, you did not clink on any provided link and you are not going to accept the truth if it shows Dr Mitchell's claims to be somewhat dubious - at best.

View Postbee, on 19 June 2013 - 09:49 AM, said:

But I doubt even your own quote will satisfy the master of spin ....

You did not even bother to read that in full I take it from your convoluted response.

View Postbee, on 19 June 2013 - 09:49 AM, said:

The mere mention of Edgar Mitchell sends you off on one....and you go into spam mode... :lol:


I do not know why for you it is "correction" but when I post it is "spam" I think your just a cantankerous old cow who cannot let go of an idea once she has placed her faith in it no matter what evidence is placed before you.





Edited by psyche101, 20 June 2013 - 03:12 AM.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.


#190    psyche101

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 03:26 AM

View PostScudbuster, on 19 June 2013 - 10:06 AM, said:

I have absolutely no problem with that statement. It's all the others relative to Roswell he's made that I find quite intriguing.  

So if he has no first hand knowledge, how does him believing some zealous Roswell proponents change things? It is another he has no personal of first hand knowledge. All his information comes form other sources, and due to Edgars standing, that is why other UFOlogists like the lacklustre Friedman went to try and further what Ed had already told everyone.

LB: So the interview has been a little misquoted. But you actually have information about the Roswell incident?
EM: Yes and my information comes from what I call “the old timers,” because I grew up in the Roswell area and when I went to the moon, some of the old timers from that period, some locals, and others military and intelligence people, who were under rather severe oaths to not reveal any of this and kind of wanted to get their conscience clear and off their chests before they passed on, selected me and said, independently – this wasn’t a group effort – independently that maybe I might be a safe person to tell their story to. And all of them confirmed, and what I’m saying is they confirmed the Roswell incident was a real incident and they in some way had some part in it that they wanted to talk about.

View PostScudbuster, on 19 June 2013 - 10:06 AM, said:

Ah, "fortitude" you say? This from the guy that refuses to "YouTube"??


Yes indeed, I find it convoluted and I prefer text. Particularly with regards to factual information as that makes it easier to verify. Most of the information we are talking about comes form the 50's when everything was in text. Is asking you to respect my wishes too much for an allegedly open minded person is it?

Edited by psyche101, 20 June 2013 - 03:27 AM.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.


#191    psyche101

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 03:30 AM

View Postbee, on 19 June 2013 - 10:16 AM, said:

only when it suits him.... :)


Refusing to YouTube is like refusing to go into a library because you don't agree with what EVERY book says...




.


Yes it is, I prefer to go to a bookstore and buy the book I need without looking at billions of others. It's more efficient and accurate and cuts down on time wasting.

How dare I ask people to respect my wishes? If they are not in line with yours, you view them as "wrong" do you?

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.


#192    psyche101

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 03:44 AM

View Postbee, on 19 June 2013 - 11:04 AM, said:

When a Senior Research Scientist from Lockheed Martin Skunk Works says what he says about Roswell...

what he has been told by 'a very dear friend'..a navy doctor....then I think it is worthy of serious consideration...

Well, I do not. What does it offer? Nothing more than a reason to speculate. In other words, pure rubbish. How about if I told you my neighbours  uncles brothers wife's sister in law's fathers uncle was at Roswell and was in charge of an Intelligence Operation that made up the Roswell ET connection? What if I assure you we was much higher than any source you have spoken to?

No ET, so you wont consider it, but if I changed the conclusion to ET from ET rumour, you would be 100% on board.

View Postbee, on 19 June 2013 - 11:04 AM, said:

Although I personally think Bushman probably had more to corroborate this info...but he can't speak about

any more (re Roswell) because of legal restrictions re. secrecy oaths..

He worked at Lockheed, not the Government, at best he may have had to sign an NDA at some point.

As for knowing more, you are just making that up to convince yourself and any ETH'er that may be lurking.

View Postbee, on 19 June 2013 - 11:04 AM, said:

He is obviously a very clever man....  

http://www.patentgen...wisvilleTX.html

So was Uri Geller.

All this does is make his lies about ani gravity more perplexing. And they are fabrications. As is his demonstration with the Celt. The smarter one is, the easier it is to suck in the gullible.

View Postbee, on 19 June 2013 - 11:04 AM, said:

(bit about Roswell starts at 2:22)




No thanks. Got text?

When I see him doing his stupid anti grav experiment, using Lenz's Law, not anti gravity, I cannot help but feel an instant dislike for this old snake oil salesman.

View Postbee, on 19 June 2013 - 11:04 AM, said:

feel free to post that podcast that you usually drag out at this point...erroneously believing it backs your uber-sceptic fantasy point of view...

I haven't listened to it for a while...


:geek:



You have not bothered with any other link I left, why waste my time?

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.


#193    bee

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 07:40 AM

View Postquillius, on 17 June 2013 - 10:58 AM, said:

---------------------------------------------------
H+: Can you give us a little better idea about who these people were?

EM: Well, for instance, one was the undertaker who was asked to provide coffins for the small bodies.  Another was one of the people who were working traffic control out near the site when they decided to fence it off.  According to these people, they had all been shushed immediately following the incident.  They were told by the Air Force not to talk about it.  In many cases… told so with some kind of severe threat attached.

One of the people who talked to me in particular was a major who was on the base at the same time as Major Jesse Marcel, the first person on the site of the Roswell crash.  He confirmed to me that… yes, at the time, it was a real incident.  I’ve also met Jesse’s son in recent years, Jesse Marcel Jr.  He explains how his father brought home some of the pieces from the crash to show him and his mother before taking them to the base.


who was the Major that spoke to Edgar? I would think that this is one of the 'intellgence/military people he was talking about.

http://hplusmagazine...edgar-mitchell/



View Postpsyche101, on 20 June 2013 - 03:11 AM, said:

Se we have locals from the time frame AND others, military and intelligence. I see Quillius could not watch you bumble along any further so he handed you the intelligence person, on a platter. That being Jesse Marcel.


Wrong again..... see what quillius  quoted above....

....." One of the people who talked to me in particular was.a major who was on the base at the same time as Major Jesse Marcel...."

So that wasn't Jesse Marcel, was it? It was another Major...


Another of your uber-sceptic fantasies bites the dust...... :hmm:





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#194    psyche101

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 08:09 AM

Ohhh for Petes sakes.

....." One of the people who talked to me in particular was.a major who was on the base at the same time as Major Jesse Marcel...."

How do you know that contact was military? Marcel was military intelligence, did you know that? A smart man like Dr. MItchell would make such an obvious distinction surely?

He had several sources, Wilson was one he had considered, or rather guessed to be under oath. As I have mentioned, he also got Roswell information from Bob Lazar, Glenn Dennis, and some cattle ranchers. What we do not have is a trusted source, but Marcel, Wilson, some old mates, and a handful of genuine crackpots.

I will see if I can find a list pf personell fro the base at the time, I suspect that will be something if a challenge, so any help any UM member can offer would be appreciated. Lets just see whom and who many Majors were "there at the time" if we can shall we?

Are you trying to say some anonymous person gave Edgar the goods that has not shown up next to all of his other contacts, and that you somehow figure that this anonymous contact which you have speculated is of higher caliber than any other contact, such as other known contacts like Glenn Dennis or Bob Lazar who HAVE been exposed, managed to inform Edgar MItchell only about the validity of Roswell Aliens, and even though he never showed Edgar any of this, only spoke of it, you still think it is somehow "proof" do you? I gotta give it to you, you are more hopeful than anyone I have seen, even more than me fishing. And that's almost embarrassing.

If so, what on earth do you hope to achieve with such an inane proposal of ambiguities?  And what of the names already exposed that are of anything but sound character which you avoid specifically?? Are you seriously attempting to provide your imagination as fact?

And are you trying to say Admiral Wilson is not one of the people Edgar Mitchell refers to in his broad description of sources in the provided interviews?

Here, have a read of this email. I doubt I can help you plasma cut those blinkers you have off, but it should keep you quiet for ten minutes and give you something to speculate about. Try to keep the term "Oaths" in the back of what I laughingly refer to as a mind.


From: visions [mailto:XXXXXXXX@XXXXXXX]
Sent: Monday, August 11, 2008 2:38 AM
To: Giuliano Marinkovic
Cc: Richard Dolan; Billy Cox
Subject: Mitchell speaks out about Wilson's denial

Hi Giuliano, Billy and Richard

The below info was put together from emails between myself
and Mitchell.

nip>

Hope you can make use of it and spread it around the web
Many thanks
Dave Haith (UK)



Astronaut Edgar Mitchell has revealed to me what he believes
is the reason that Admiral Wilson is now denying what he
previously said.

He refers me to an article in Jane's Defence Weekly entitled
"Pentagon's Hidden Budget" by defense analyst Bill Sweetman
in which he discusses Special Access Programs in great
detail.
www.janes.com...

Dr Mitchell points to a quote from that article:

"An unacknowledged SAP - a black program - is a program
which is considered so sensitive that the fact of its existence is a
'core secret', defined in USAF regulations as 'any item, progress,
strategy or element of information, the compromise of which
would result in unrecoverable failure'. In other words, revealing
the existence of a black program would undermine its military
value."

Dr Mitchell told me: "The UFO program that the admiral
sought would be in this category. Thus by law he would be required to
deny the existence of such a program. For a core secret SAP, even a
"no comment" would be a breach of security."

Dr Mitchell believes that the Billy Cox blog above, together
with the Jane's article "tells it all".

He writes: "They somewhat go together and validate the
entire episode."

He adds: "This SAP designation is the reason it is so
difficult to get any truthful information to the public.

NO INFORMATION is exempt from containment"

I understand Dr Mitchell has no wish to fan any flames of
conflict between he and Admiral Wilson who is, as he put it, "caught
in the political security rules dilemma as is anyone with inside
knowledge whether they like it or not."

Dr Mitchell has given full permission for me to post his
comments. "The more people and media get to see this, the sooner we
can break open the alien visitation issue."

Dave Haith


Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.


#195    quillius

quillius

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 08:28 AM

not too sure if Admiral Wilson is included in one of the 'contacts' that said things to Mitchell.

I say this simply based on the fact that in the following:

edgar:
He recruited me and another naval commander, Will Miller, who also lives here in Florida, to come to a conference in Washington DC.  There, we spoke and explained our stories and said that we believed this was real.  The three of us, with both Naval officers, were able to get to the Pentagon and get a meeting with the Chairman of the Intelligence Committee of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.  We told our respective stories of what we knew about UFOs and the cover-up.  “This is what we know. Will you confirm anything for us?”  And the Admiral said, “I don’t know about this, but I should know, and I will find out and get back to you.”  Well, he never got back to me personally. But he did get back to Dr. Greer, and essentially said, “Yes.  What you’re saying is true.  I know where the black budget money is dispersed from within the Pentagon.”
Greer told Commander Miller, who called me and said, “Yes, Greer heard from the admiral, and he’s confirmed that there was an office in the Pentagon funding all of this.”  Subsequently, another contact of mine, who must also remain nameless because he’s on classified programs, encountered the Admiral in Las Vegas, where he had been looking for and trying to get into the so-called “strategic access program” around the UFO incident and had been denied

The fact that the Admiral never actually confirmed or said anything directly to Mitchell makes it somewhat 'fragile' IMO. It is not even second hand but third hand i.e. Wilson tells Greer, Greer tells Miller and then Miller tells Edgar, So I think it can go either way as to whether Edgar includes him in his 'contacts' list. I guess the fact that another contact then spoke to Mitchell regarding the Admiral may strengthen it a little. However we are left second guessing as to whether Mitchell includes him or not.

The other Major he mentions is definitely an interesting avenue to persue, but I have had no luck finding out who it is yet. I will keep looking, and maybe narrowing it down as per Psyches suggestion maybe the best way.

To confirm to date we have the following confirmed:

Glenn Dennis
Major Jesse Marcel
Marcel jr
Greer
Traffic controller (no name)
unknown Major
unknown contact that spoke about Wilson.





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