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911 inside job - for what?


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#721    joc

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 02:50 PM

So now, if a case is settled out of court...it's a conspiracy!  Question:  what isn't a conspiracy with regards to 911? :passifier:

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#722    Babe Ruth

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 02:52 PM

You missed the point JOC.  I probably made it too sophisticated a notion to understand.  Apologies.


#723    joc

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 03:30 PM

View PostBabe Ruth, on 26 January 2013 - 02:52 PM, said:

You missed the point JOC.  I probably made it too sophisticated a notion to understand.  Apologies.
I didn't miss the point.  You really aren't the smartest guy in the room.  At this juncture, I would have to give those accolades to SkyEagle.
The point is:  Everything 'boils' down to one thing...an incredible amount of 'evidence' that the WTC buildings were brought down by explosives planted by the CIA.  The problem with that is that anything, from the collapse itself to 'settling out of court' is now used as a plethora of evidence to damn the government as the instigators.  The truth is that our government failed us bigtime.  Like they always do.  Like they always will.   But let's face it BabeRuth, a government that cannot even deliver the mail right isn't capable of that kind of coverup...seriously!

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#724    Babe Ruth

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 03:35 PM

Seriously Joc, one must be able to view and perceive the proverbial "Big Picture" in order to understand, and from what I can gather from your posts here, you have not quite reached that level yet.

The big question is do you really want to? :whistle:


#725    joc

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 04:01 PM

View PostBabe Ruth, on 26 January 2013 - 03:35 PM, said:

Seriously Joc, one must be able to view and perceive the proverbial "Big Picture" in order to understand, and from what I can gather from your posts here, you have not quite reached that level yet.

The big question is do you really want to? :whistle:
Let me work Redhen's original plan in reverse:
Why there was a Conspiracy to attack America by the Radical Islamist Jihadists.

Who is responsible for the attacks?
The Ayatollah Khomeini who started the America is Satan movement back in the 70's.
This grew and grew and grew into a full fledged Islamic Jihadist war against the US and the West.  There have been many attacks against the West and the United States...many....and well documented.

America is and always has been and will always continue to be a Sleeping Giant.  Something on the scale of 911 or Pearl Harbor wakes us up for a while and then we slumber back into our Capitalist Dream.
The failure of our government to protect us is apparent.  The CIA and the FBI not linking and sharing the same information.

Was President Bush a genius or a complete idiot?  Everyday the Media pointed out to us all how big a dufus Bush was.  They painted him as the stupidest President to ever hold office.
Keep that in mind as we ask this next question:  Was/Is the Media part of the Conspiracy?  Not the Conspiracy of the Jihadists...but the Conspiracy of the Government of the USA?
Fact:  Bush was/is brilliant.  But, Bush is human.  Name one human who is brilliant at virtually everything?  Bush had his dumb side as do we all.  He wasn't/isn't a brilliant communicator.  He says things and they come out differently than what he meant to say...as do we all.

The Jihadists planned the 911 event for years.  Did the CIA know what they were planning...God I hope so!  Otherwise, what the hell good is that intelligence agency?  Were they in on it?  That is just ridiculous.  It is ridiculous because for them to be in on it, they would have to have a pretty good, pretty solid, pretty firm reason...and so far, no one has the ability to point that reason out.

Did the government cover up stuff?  Of course they did!  Did Obama intend for Benghazi to happen?  Hell no, that's preposterous!  Did he cover stuff up?  Of course he did!  Cover Your Own Ass...that is what any cover up is all about.  Not covering the diabolical things you did...but covering the 'mistakes' you made.

Resting my case now!

Edited by joc, 26 January 2013 - 04:02 PM.

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#726    redhen

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 04:12 PM

View PostBabe Ruth, on 26 January 2013 - 02:44 PM, said:

It appears that you are utterly UNaware that the judiciary is in on the coverup sir, or madam.  There are others, but Judge Hellerstein in Manhattan is the best example of judicial complicity in the coverup.

The only legal cases I follow are those that involve animal welfare. So from the wiki entry I see;

"In 2003, Hellerstein agreed to hear a consolidated master case against three airlines, ICTS International NV and Pinkerton's airport security firms, the World Trade Center owners, and Boeing Co., the aircraft manufacturer.

On January 12, 2006, Hellerstein dismissed the last remaining property-damage claim against New York City, while leaving pending several other suits against other parties, among them the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey. According to Reuters,


October 17, 2006 federal judge Alvin K. Hellerstein rejected New York City's motion to dismiss lawsuits that requested health payments to the first responders. [1]

On December 20, 2004, Hellerstein said he would deny a government request to delay a review of whether certain Central Intelligence Agency internal files related to Iraq should be made public.

On June 3, 2005, Judge Hellerstein ordered the government to release four videos from Abu Ghraib prison and dozens of photographs from the same collection as photos that touched off the Iraqi prisoner abuse scandal a year ago.

On September 29, 2005, in ACLU v. Department of Defense (caution: large PDF file), Hellerstein ordered the release of 87 more photographs and videotapes.

This is a judge who is in the pockets of "neocon warmongers"? Really?


#727    skyeagle409

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 06:17 PM

View PostBabe Ruth, on 26 January 2013 - 02:44 PM, said:

It appears that you are utterly UNaware that the judiciary is in on the coverup sir, or madam.  There are others, but Judge Hellerstein in Manhattan is the best example of judicial complicity in the coverup.

What cover-up? You keep mentioning a "cover-up," but supplied no evidence.

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#728    skyeagle409

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 07:35 PM

View PostBabe Ruth, on 24 January 2013 - 02:09 PM, said:

For what it's worth Sky, my own theory is that the airplanes involved at WTC (there were no Boeings at Shanksville & Pentagon) did not belong to United and American.

It would have been impossible, since only a certain number of B-757-200 series aircraft were built and accountable. I have posted fleet numbers of B-757-200s for American Airlines and United Airlines and those aircraft have been accounted for, which simply means, and proves, that you are incorrect. In addition, you failed to account for passengers and crew of those flights and failed to take into an account that the airlines reported the loss of their aircraft at the crash sites and radar tracked those aircraft as well, so there was no way those aircraft could have been switched. Furthermore, ACARS did not record those B-757s landing anywhere else and radar data does not depict those flights airborne after they crashed.

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My theory is that at least one (not certain about the other) was drawn from a fleet of 767 tanker candidates delivered to MacDill some years previously.

I was at the Boeing Aircraft plant last month and there were no way a B-767 tanker could have been a candidate in 2001, because its first flight wasn't until December 21, 2006, and remember, you still have to account for the engines, which have their own unique operation and maintenance histories, as well as passengers and flight crews of those flights.

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#729    Babe Ruth

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 08:36 PM

Good job RH, in researching Hellerstein.  Some honest posting, but what you have is 10 or 15 days in the life of an old man, somewhere around 70 as I understand.  And those are not many days, all things considered.

What you might want to do is arrange all his decisions in all cases, or certain ones that you've mentioned, and follow them through to their termination.  That's what gets interesting--the behavior and record over 10 years haggling.

In blocking the lawsuit against those security companies at Boston, he had help from Congress, as it had passed a law that absolved certain classes of companies from any liability from the events of the day, kinda like it absolved private companies from any criminal liabilities for their blatant criminal acts with the renewal of FISA II.


#730    DONTEATUS

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 09:42 PM

View Postskyeagle409, on 26 January 2013 - 07:35 PM, said:

It would have been impossible, since only a certain number of B-757-200 series aircraft were built and accountable. I have posted fleet numbers of B-757-200s for American Airlines and United Airlines and those aircraft have been accounted for, which simply means, and proves, that you are incorrect. In addition, you failed to account for passengers and crew of those flights and failed to take into an account that the airlines reported the loss of their aircraft at the crash sites and radar tracked those aircraft as well, so there was no way those aircraft could have been switched. Furthermore, ACARS did not record those B-757s landing anywhere else and radar data does not depict those flights airborne after they crashed.



I was at the Boeing Aircraft plant last month and there were no way a B-767 tanker could have been a candidate in 2001, because its first flight wasn't until December 21, 2006, and remember, you still have to account for the engines, which have their own unique operation and maintenance histories, as well as passengers and flight crews of those flights.
Sky its like talking to a brick wall this Babe Ruth ! I bet If a 757,767,787, were to smash right into Babes Face  in broad daylight He would try to say It wasnt a Aircraft ! THe man is a bit off the beaten track !

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#731    skyeagle409

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 11:57 PM

View PostDONTEATUS, on 26 January 2013 - 09:42 PM, said:

Sky its like talking to a brick wall this Babe Ruth ! I bet If a 757,767,787, were to smash right into Babes Face  in broad daylight He would try to say It wasnt a Aircraft ! THe man is a bit off the beaten track !

He doesn't seem to realize that by claiming the aircraft were switched requires him to account for the original airframes, engines, APUs, and black boxes. He has to account for the passengers and crew of those flights and explain how to fly a switched aircraft from "A" to "B" without attracting attention from ATC since the aircraft will be flown in positive controlled airspace. I don't think he understands the requirements needed to fly an aircraft into positive controlled airspace.

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#732    DONTEATUS

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 04:42 AM

Key words in all of our post. "Dosnt Understand" Has not a clue of what happened that day ! We need to Let this guy hit the wall or better yet ,GET A LIFE !

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#733    skyeagle409

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 08:39 PM

View PostDONTEATUS, on 27 January 2013 - 04:42 AM, said:

Key words in all of our post. "Dosnt Understand" Has not a clue of what happened that day ! We need to Let this guy hit the wall or better yet ,GET A LIFE !

BR, is known for fabricating stories and we can use his own messages as proof.

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#734    Little Fish

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 01:46 PM

View Postredhen, on 18 January 2013 - 07:22 PM, said:

Which 14 families are these? I'm not being snide, I just don't want to read through hundreds of pages of articles.

I don't want to commit you to writing an essay (although that would be interesting to read), but a quick and dirty summary would be helpful.

I'm just parroting what the mainstream media have reported. I know I'm a a sheep.

I have repeatedly told you I am not here to debate. I wanted to see some reasoned arguments from truthers.


Ok then, it's a shadow government.

I will check this out, resistance movements are interesting.
edit: just read an amazon summary of another book on Gladio. They claim that this right-wing anti-communist secret organization assassinated Aldo Moro. It is however an indisputable fact that he was killed by the Red Brigade, a Marxist-Lennist terror group. I have a feeling that gladio will be blamed for every terror bombing and murder in Europe. Let me dig some more.

I concede this point. Northwoods was not in the same category as other whacky ideas. This one made it all the way to the top. That's scary.

Only if it was on Oprah. lol  Seriously, you raise some valid points, but I have a hard time accepting that so many people were necessarily privy to this secret plot yet it remained undiscovered.

I also have difficulty swallowing that Al Qaeda was just a tool for powerful elites. It seems to me that radical Muslim leaders have their own agenda. That they would be intentionally aiding Zionists in the world banking system sounds contradictory.

here is an article written today which answers all your questions. it is one of the best and most succinct articles I've seen written on the subject.
you can save yourself months of reading just by reading this article, so i won't waste my time writing what's already written.

"Does a shadowy group of obscenely wealthy elitists control the world? Do men and women with enormous amounts of money really run the world from behind the scenes? The answer might surprise you. Most of us tend to think of money as a convenient way to conduct transactions, but the truth is that it also represents power and control. And today we live in a neo-fuedalist system in which the super rich pull all the strings. When I am talking about the ultra-wealthy, I am not just talking about people that have a few million dollars. As you will see later in this article, the ultra-wealthy have enough money sitting in offshore banks to buy all of the goods and services produced in the United States during the course of an entire year and still be able to pay off the entire U.S. national debt. That is an amount of money so large that it is almost incomprehensible. Under this ne0-feudalist system, all the rest of us are debt slaves, including our own governments. Just look around - everyone is drowning in debt, and all of that debt is making the ultra-wealthy even wealthier. But the ultra-wealthy don't just sit on all of that wealth. They use some of it to dominate the affairs of the nations. The ultra-wealthy own virtually every major bank and every major corporation on the planet. They use a vast network of secret societies, think tanks and charitable organizations to advance their agendas and to keep their members in line. They control how we view the world through their ownership of the media and their dominance over our education system. They fund the campaigns of most of our politicians and they exert a tremendous amount of influence over international organizations such as the United Nations, the IMF, the World Bank and the WTO. When you step back and take a look at the big picture, there is little doubt about who runs the world. It is just that most people don't want to admit the truth.

The ultra-wealthy don't run down and put their money in the local bank like you and I do. Instead, they tend to stash their assets in places where they won't be taxed such as the Cayman Islands. According to a report that was released last summer, the global elite have up to 32 TRILLION dollars stashed in offshore banks around the globe.

U.S. GDP for 2011 was about 15 trillion dollars, and the U.S. national debt is sitting at about 16 trillion dollars, so you could add them both together and you still wouldn't hit 32 trillion dollars.

And of course that does not even count the money that is stashed in other locations that the study did not account for, and it does not count all of the wealth that the global elite have in hard assets such as real estate, precious metals, art, yachts, etc.

The global elite have really hoarded an incredible amount of wealth in these troubled times. The following is from an article on the Huffington Post website...

Rich individuals and their families have as much as $32 trillion of hidden financial assets in offshore tax havens, representing up to $280 billion in lost income tax revenues, according to research published on Sunday.

The study estimating the extent of global private financial wealth held in offshore accounts - excluding non-financial assets such as real estate, gold, yachts and racehorses - puts the sum at between $21 and $32 trillion.

The research was carried out for pressure group Tax Justice Network, which campaigns against tax havens, by James Henry, former chief economist at consultants McKinsey & Co.

He used data from the World Bank, International Monetary Fund, United Nations and central banks.


But as I mentioned previously, the global elite just don't have a lot of money. They also basically own just about every major bank and every major corporation on the entire planet.

According to an outstanding NewScientist article, a study of more than 40,000 transnational corporations conducted by the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology in Zurich discovered that a very small core group of huge banks and giant predator corporations dominate the entire global economic system...

An analysis of the relationships between 43,000 transnational corporations has identified a relatively small group of companies, mainly banks, with disproportionate power over the global economy.

The researchers found that this core group consists of just 147 very tightly knit companies...

When the team further untangled the web of ownership, it found much of it tracked back to a "super-entity" of 147 even more tightly knit companies - all of their ownership was held by other members of the super-entity - that controlled 40 per cent of the total wealth in the network. "In effect, less than 1 per cent of the companies were able to control 40 per cent of the entire network," says Glattfelder. Most were financial institutions. The top 20 included Barclays Bank, JPMorgan Chase & Co, and The Goldman Sachs Group.

The following are the top 25 banks and corporations at the heart of this "super-entity". You will recognize many of the names on the list...

1. Barclays plc
2. Capital Group Companies Inc
3. FMR Corporation
4. AXA
5. State Street Corporation
6. JP Morgan Chase & Co
7. Legal & General Group plc
8. Vanguard Group Inc
9. UBS AG
10. Merrill Lynch & Co Inc
11. Wellington Management Co LLP
12. Deutsche Bank AG
13. Franklin Resources Inc
14. Credit Suisse Group
15. Walton Enterprises LLC
16. Bank of New York Mellon Corp
17. Natixis
18. Goldman Sachs Group Inc
19. T Rowe Price Group Inc
20. Legg Mason Inc
21. Morgan Stanley
22. Mitsubishi UFJ Financial Group Inc
23. Northern Trust Corporation
24. Société Générale
25. Bank of America Corporation

The ultra-wealthy elite often hide behind layers and layers of ownership, but the truth is that thanks to interlocking corporate relationships, the elite basically control almost every Fortune 500 corporation.

The amount of power and control that this gives them is hard to describe.

Unfortunately, this same group of people have been running things for a very long time. For example, New York City Mayor John F. Hylan said the following during a speech all the way back in 1922...

The real menace of our Republic is the invisible government, which like a giant octopus sprawls its slimy legs over our cities, states and nation. To depart from mere generalizations, let me say that at the head of this octopus are the Rockefeller-Standard Oil interests and a small group of powerful banking houses generally referred to as the international bankers. The little coterie of powerful international bankers virtually run the United States government for their own selfish purposes.

They practically control both parties, write political platforms, make catspaws of party leaders, use the leading men of private organizations, and resort to every device to place in nomination for high public office only such candidates as will be amenable to the dictates of corrupt big business.

These international bankers and Rockefeller-Standard Oil interests control the majority of the newspapers and magazines in this country. They use the columns of these papers to club into submission or drive out of office public officials who refuse to do the bidding of the powerful corrupt cliques which compose the invisible government. It operates under cover of a self-created screen [and] seizes our executive officers, legislative bodies, schools, courts, newspapers and every agency created for the public protection.


These international bankers created the central banks of the world (including the Federal Reserve), and they use those central banks to get the governments of the world ensnared in endless cycles of debt from which there is no escape. Government debt is a way to "legitimately" take money from all of us, transfer it to the government, and then transfer it into the pockets of the ultra-wealthy.

Today, Barack Obama and almost all members of Congress absolutely refuse to criticize the Fed, but in the past there have been some brave members of Congress that have been willing to take a stand. For example, the following quote is from a speech that Congressman Louis T. McFadden delivered to the U.S. House of Representatives on June 10, 1932...

Mr. Chairman, we have in this country one of the most corrupt institutions the world has ever known. I refer to the Federal Reserve Board and the Federal Reserve Banks. The Federal Reserve Board, a Government board, has cheated the Government of the United States and the people of the United States out of enough money to pay the national debt. The depredations and iniquities of the Federal Reserve Board has cost this country enough money to pay the national debt several times over. This evil institution has impoverished and ruined the people of the United States, has bankrupted itself, and has practically bankrupted our Government. It has done this through the defects of the law under which it operates, through the maladministration of that law by the Federal Reserve Board, and through the corrupt practices of the moneyed vultures who control it.

Sadly, most Americans still believe that the Federal Reserve is a "federal agency", but that is simply not correct. The following comes from factcheck.org...

The stockholders in the 12 regional Federal Reserve Banks are the privately owned banks that fall under the Federal Reserve System. These include all national banks (chartered by the federal government) and those state-chartered banks that wish to join and meet certain requirements. About 38 percent of the nation’s more than 8,000 banks are members of the system, and thus own the Fed banks.

According to researchers that have looked into the ownership of the big Wall Street banks that dominate the Fed, the same names keep coming up over and over: the Rockefellers, the Rothschilds, the Warburgs, the Lazards, the Schiffs and the royal families of Europe.

But ultra-wealthy international bankers have not just done this kind of thing in the United States. Their goal was to create a global financial system that they would dominate and control. Just check out what Georgetown University history professor Carroll Quigley once wrote...

[T]he powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent private meetings and conferences. The apex of the system was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basle, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world’s central banks which were themselves private corporations.

Sadly, most Americans have never even heard of the Bank for International Settlements, but it is at the very heart of the global financial system. The following is from Wikipedia...

As an organization of central banks, the BIS seeks to make monetary policy more predictable and transparent among its 58 member central banks. While monetary policy is determined by each sovereign nation, it is subject to central and private banking scrutiny and potentially to speculation that affects foreign exchange rates and especially the fate of export economies. Failures to keep monetary policy in line with reality and make monetary reforms in time, preferably as a simultaneous policy among all 58 member banks and also involving the International Monetary Fund, have historically led to losses in the billions as banks try to maintain a policy using open market methods that have proven to be based on unrealistic assumptions.

The ultra-wealthy have also played a major role in establishing other important international institutions such as the United Nations, the IMF, the World Bank and the WTO. In fact, the land for the United Nations headquarters in New York City was purchased and donated by John D. Rockefeller.

The international bankers are "internationalists" and they are very proud of that fact.

The elite also dominate the education system in the United States. Over the years, the Rockefeller Foundation and other elitist organizations have poured massive amounts of money into Ivy League schools. Today, Ivy League schools are considered to be the standard against which all other colleges and universities in America are measured, and the last four U.S. presidents were educated at Ivy League schools.

The elite also exert a tremendous amount of influence through various secret societies (Skull and Bones, the Freemasons, etc.), through some very powerful think tanks and social clubs (the Council on Foreign Relations, the Trilateral Commission, the Bilderberg Group, the Bohemian Grove, Chatham House <royal institue for international affairs, RIIA - my edit.>, etc.), and through a vast network of charities and non-governmental organizations (the Rockefeller Foundation, the Ford Foundation, the World Wildlife Fund, etc.).

But for a moment, I want to focus on the power the elite have over the media. In a previous article, I detailed how just six monolithic corporate giants control most of what we watch, hear and read every single day. These giant corporations own television networks, cable channels, movie studios, newspapers, magazines, publishing houses, music labels and even many of our favorite websites.....

....

...There is so much more that could be said about all of this. In fact, an entire library of books could be written about the power and the influence of the ultra-wealthy international bankers that run the world..."
http://theeconomicco...ing-the-strings

View PostQ24, on 25 January 2013 - 08:49 PM, said:

That’s moving into NWO territory – though I’m sure you are right, Brzezinski’s statements certainly further enforce the motive for 9/11, and that the power structure goes much higher and wider (I mentioned the appearance of a “multi-national operation” in my last post) – I just focus on the Neocon group as the most direct candidate to keep it simple, though it’s certainly an interesting web the elites weave at a higher level.

Isn’t it interesting that Brzezinski’s own ‘pawn’ turned out to be the bogeyman behind the ‘new Pearl Harbor’.  There’s a photograph or two of his meeting with bin Laden on the Afghanistan border in 1980 shortly after the onset of Operation Cyclone: -

http://www.unexplain...15#entry4107567

This all helps to explain why bin Laden and ‘Al Qaeda’ were the chosen - it was an easy setup to make.
to understand power we have to realise that the tail does not wag the dog. it is inconceivable that just a group of neocons orchestrated 911 against the knowledge and will of that power described above. there are also pre-911 connections to that power that connect at a higher level through the cfr, skull and bones and brzezinski's writings etc. sure, it's easy to prove the neocons did it, but to stop there is just being played for a fool as much as those that stop at AQ are being played as fools, just mo.


#735    Babe Ruth

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 01:59 PM

Neocons in cahoots with Israeli interests, is what it looks like to me.





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