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Theism and Atheism


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The Florentine Dante, disciple of Virgil, the great Poet of Mantua, in his Divine Comedy cites a terrible case related with atheism.

A shadow screamed:

“That which in life I was, in death I am. Though Jupiter tire out his armour, who supplied his wrathful hand with the sharp thunder-stone that in my last day smote me through the side, though he tire all the rest out, one by one, in Mongibel’s black stithy, and break them quite, crying, “To aid! Vulcan, lay on, lay on!” As once before he cried at Phlegra’s fight; yeah, though he crush me with his omnipotence, no merry vengeance shall his heart delight.”

The arrogance and pride of Atheists who are violent against the divine, in the Seventh Submerged Dantesque Infradimension, is the worst torture.

There exists violence against the divinity when we attempt against our own life, when we blaspheme wrathfully. There exist many subtle ways of violence against the divine; undoubtedly, the violent person against God is the one who does not want anything to do with mystical or spiritual matters, the one who assumes that they can exist without divine mercy and at the bottom of their soul rebels against everything that has the smell of divinity.

There exists violence against God in that self-sufficient person that smiles stupidly, in a skeptical manner, when he hears of matters that in some way have to do with the spiritual aspects of life.

There exists violence against God, in the intellectual rascals, in those know- it-ails that deny all spiritual possibilities to human beings; in those who believe that they have monopolized universal knowledge; in the models of wisdom; in. the learned ignoramuses who not only ignore but also ignore that they ignore, in the iconoclasts that raze to the ground when they analyze religious principles but who leave their followers without a new spiritual base.

There exists violence against God in the Marxist-Leninists, pseudo-sages that have taken away the spiritual values from humanity.

All of them deny that hell exists; they ignore that I-N-F-E-R-N-O comes from the Latin word Infernus (Inferior).

The Inferior Dimensions of Nature exist and the soul of any person who has experienced nightmares has unconsciously descended into those Infradimensions while their physical body is resting in their bed.

Heaven: Superior Dimensions that are related with the ultraviolet light whose quantum momentum is faster than the quantum momentum of this physical world.

Hell: Inferior Dimensions that are related with the infrared light whose quantum momentum is lower than the quantum momentum of this physical world

Heaven and hell are just parallel universes that sometimes the souls of people unconsciously experience while their physical bodies sleep in their beds or while they are under a physical surgery or during deadly accidents of life!

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....what's your point? huh.gif

We athiests, you see, don't believe in hell tongue.gif We have no reason to believe in it whatsoever and, therefore, have no reason to fear it. When I die, I plan on being dead and nothing else...that is what I believe is going to be the case, and I'm not going to give up my own beliefs and way of life for the sake of another person's alleged afterlife that may or may not exist.

If I were to open up myself to the possibility of an afterlife, Christianity isn't the first one I'd choose either. Of the many religions in the world, I do not consider Christianity either the most likely, nor does its glorification of an obvious villain (God) meet with my moral values. In fact, I find myself wondering how those who DO believe in an afterlife are able to sleep at night without being terrified that they might be wrong in their interpretations of their religions requirments to have a favourable one tongue.gif

By the way, has anyone ever told you that you sound like you dwell on the dangerous side of fanatic? huh.gif

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....what's your point?  huh.gif

My point is that heaven and hell is not a subject-matter to believe, but a subject-matter that one should directly experience with one's own consciousness before death! thumbsup.gif

By the way, has anyone ever told you that you sound like you dwell on the dangerous side of fanatic?

Yes, many times!

However, to sound like I dwell on the dangerous side of fanaticism and to be a fanatic, are two very different things! w00t.gif

Edited by Loge
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So, to you, heaven and hell is just a state of mind? Do you feel there is an afterlife, or it is just something we create for ourselves?

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Atheism incites materialism and materialism incites injustice! sleep.gif

Edited by Athenian
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Thank you, for once, making a post that didn't look like it was written by the inventor of the thesaurus. Your point is still not very well made though....

Heaven, to me, consists of being free to do as I wish in life. If that happens to be wild parties, endless flirting, and inviting girls back home then that's how I choose to live my young adult life tongue.gif However, it also happens to directly contradict the lifestyle your religion requires of me in order to get into heaven...

Then again, some denominations of your religion also claim that I can live however I want, to the extent of going on a killing spree with a chainsaw, and I'd still get into heaven if I begged forgiveness huh.gif (One thing's for sure...your god is not the person I'd want to forgive me. A sinner can't be forgiven by a sinner).

If you're intended to make a direct point, perhaps you could try doing it in plain, simple english. Or failing that, any langauge in the world that, when translated, would still result in a coherant sentance. Your posts are so well hiden behind rhetoric and metaphor that you end up saying nothing.

Athiesm incites materialism and materialism incites injustice!

Religion incites predujice, seperation, hatred, war, death, fundamentalism, murder, oppression, ignorance, and ultimately a freeze on the progess of society. I'd go with materialism any day tongue.gif

Edited by Shadowsleet
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Religion incites predujice, seperation, hatred, war, death, fundamentalism, murder, oppression, ignorance, and ultimately a freeze on the progess of society. I'd go with materialism any day tongue.gif

You must be thinking of corrupt religions...

But if you take a bit of this and that out of every religion and melt it together and follow spiritual laws more than the material ones... You have something wonderful my friend.

Edited by Athenian
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Can you give me an example of a religion completely untouched by corruption? At one time or another, every religion (in particular Christianity and the other Judo-Christian brands) has oppressed another set of beliefs.

Let's not forget that no modern interpretation of religion has much at all to do with the origonal concepts...the updated version of god, the 'trendy' loving one, bears no resemblance whatsoever to the evil tyrant portrayed in the bible...he was just changed to be more socially acceptable.

Religion isn't something that evolves easily...while social changes might result in religion gradually dying away, leaving behind only traces of itself, you don't have to look very far to see that the places in the world where the people, and especially the ruling bodies, are the most religious, is also where the most corruption is present, and the people suffer most.

But if you take a bit of this and that out of every religion and melt it together and follow spiritual laws more than the material ones... You have something wonderful my friend.

If you do that, you've crossed the barrier from organised religion into "make your own cult" territory.

Edited by Shadowsleet
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Hey great, another Loge inspired thread. This should be interesting to watch...

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So, to you, heaven and hell is just a state of mind?  Do you feel there is an afterlife, or it is just something we create for ourselves?

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Any inferno or heaven of a religious type is exclusively symbolic.

It is not irrelevant to remember the icy inferno of the Nordics, the Chinese hell with all its yellow torments, the Buddhist hell, the Mohammedan hell, or the Infernal Island of the ancient inhabitants of the Country of Maralpleicie, whose civilization is today found hidden in the sands of the Gobi dessert.

These various traditional infernos allegorize the Submerged Infradimensions, the infra-mineral kingdom in an emphatic manner.

Remember that Dante found his inferno in the living entrails of the earth; read the Divine Comedy.

These infernos are not physical but Infradimensional regions of the earth. ohmy.gif

The Heavens are related with the supradimensions of the earth. grin2.gif

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Can you give me an example of a religion completely untouched by corruption? At one time or another, every religion (in particular Christianity and the other Judo-Christian brands) has oppressed another set of beliefs.

Let's not forget that no modern interpretation of religion has much at all to do with the origonal concepts...the updated version of god, the 'trendy' loving one, bears no resemblance whatsoever to the evil tyrant portrayed in the bible...he was just changed to be more socially acceptable.

Religion isn't something that evolves easily...while social changes might result in religion gradually dying away, leaving behind only traces of itself, you don't have to look very far to see that the places in the world where the people, and especially the ruling bodies, are the most religious, is also where the most corruption is present, and the people suffer most.

But if you take a bit of this and that out of every religion and melt it together and follow spiritual laws more than the material ones... You have something wonderful my friend.

If you do that, you've crossed the barrier from organised religion into "make your own cult" territory.

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The places you suggest also have much materialism and greed. So far the only utopian and ideal religions that exist are those taught by the natives of each continent.

Have not all of the major religions of the modern world started as cults and became distorted over time?

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Have not all of the major religions of the modern world started as cults and became distorted over time?

I consider 'cult' and 'religion' much the same thing...the only difference is that one usually has the people who run it know they're lying, and the other has people who actually believe it tongue.gif

So far the only utopian and ideal religions that exist are those taught by the natives of each continent.

Interesting...I had you pinned as a Christian. So you believe religion that go hand in hand with nature are the way to go? Does that include paganism, or is that another one that's been corrupted by teenagers who think they know magic?

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Interesting...I had you pinned as a Christian. So you believe religion that go hand in hand with nature are the way to go? Does that include paganism, or is that another one that's been corrupted by teenagers who think they know magic?

I think you are viewing it wrongly. It is not only harmonizing with nature, But harmonizing with humanity, life, and yourself.

Your term of paganism is very vague. There are many pagan religions which are useful and others that are just silly, like the stuff you have stated about magic and casting spells.

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I see...I see your wisdom far surpasses that of Loge tongue.gif Tell me, does your mix and match style approach to religion allow for a deity, or do you not consider them? I don't see, after all, how you could claim to follow any specific god, if you're taking bits and peices from the teachings of other religions.

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I see...I see your wisdom far surpasses that of Loge tongue.gif Tell me, does your mix and match style approach to religion allow for a deity, or do you not consider them? I don't see, after all, how you could claim to follow any specific god, if you're taking bits and peices from the teachings of other religions.

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I do believe there is a moderator and administrator aka god for this universe but the power of it or how it works is beyond our understanding... so far. Our job is to find out and get closer to this mystery no?

Who truly knows the god he believes in...?

Edited by Athenian
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You must be thinking of corrupt religions...

And you must be thinking of corrupt atheists...

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When the physical body of a person dies, what does the soul do? Where is this soul found in order for it to return and incarnate into a new body?

We need to comprehend that people’s minds are filled with too much dogma. Intellectual devolution exists and people are not capable of opening themselves up to the new; they are not capable of seen what is natural. They always like to think about what is superficial and consider their five senses as a pattern for all their psychological measurements.

In other times, the human ultra sensorial perceptions were still not deteriorated. Thus, during the archaic epochs of our world, people could see the disincarnated ones; they could hear them, touch them, etc.

user posted image

For instance, in Lemuria when someone was going to disincarnate, he, himself dug his own tomb, afterwards he laid down in it with his head towards the east. Then, happily, he said goodbye to his relatives who were blissfully smiling.

Whosoever took this step beyond did not remain invisible to his relatives; he could delectably keep co-existing with them. The air looked transparent; the spirits, the souls, the innocent creatures of Nature (the fairies or souls of animals and plants, etc.) were clearly shown within the atmosphere.

user posted image

Consequently, we know that within the atmosphere (under the zones which belong to this tridimensional or physical world) metaphysical regions, (in the manner of worlds or spaces) exist, where the souls of the dead live before they return into a new body.

The mind can accept or reject what is stated, to believe it or doubt it, etc., but it can never know the truth with the five senses.

Observe carefully what happens in the distinct corners of the world; it is ostensible that the sacred books of all religions circulate everywhere and they serve as a basis for many religious cults.

However, who understands the concepts of the contents of those books? Who has full consciousness of what is written in each verse? Very few people know this; this is why the skeptical ignoramuses play with the minds of all believers because they know that the masses only limit themselves to believe or to deny and that is all.

If you want proof of what I am affirming, then look at how many sects have been formed with the marvelous verses of the four Christian gospels.

If Christians would have full consciousness of the Christic gospel preached by the Great Kabir Jesus, it is obvious that so many sects would not exist; truly there would be only one Christic religion of a universal cosmic type.

However, the believers are not able to agree among themselves because they have their consciousness asleep; they know nothing. Nothing is evident to them.

They have never personally talked with an Angel; they have never consciously and positively entered into the celestial regions.

They walk because others walk, eat because others eat, talk because others talk, and in this manner they proceed from the cradle to the sepulcher with blindfolded eyes.

We need to develop the ultra-sensorial capacities of our consciousness and to experience here and now the mysteries of all religions.

Neither skepticism nor fanaticism can develop the ultra sensorial capacities of the human being. Skepticism and fanaticism only serve to stagnant the psychic abilities of our brain.

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Thank you Loge, very interesting read. Not needing fictional ideas to fit old notions, it's just refreshing to read interpretations that are less figurative and immature in early human spiritual history, that heaven and hell is a physical location. I agree that if the very substance of humanity is generated by, while can be regarded separately from a physical device, the brain-led body, naturally the states of inferior (as you stated, infernus) humanity and superior humanity are consciuousness states one creates for oneself. How little we human can understand of the metaphysical, which nearly all spiritual experiences will remain experiences, but at least we are moving on, and can shed some primitive allegorical shells.

Edited by Q-La
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HEAVENS: We find them in all orthodox religions, although with different names.

user posted image

These are always nine, as the Florentine Dante stated with so much detail in his classic poem: The Divine Comedy.

- Heaven of the MOON (Astral World)

- Heaven of MERCURY (Mental World)

- Heaven of VENUS (Causal World)

- Heaven of the SUN (Buddhic or Intuitional World)

- Heaven of MARS (Atmic World, region of ATMA, the Spirit)

- Heaven of JUPITER (Nirvana)

- Heaven of SATURN (Paranirvanic World)

- Heaven of URANUS (Mahaparanirvanic World)

- Heaven of NEPTUNE (The Empirean)

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These nine cited heavens are also within us, here and now.

user posted image

They mutually penetrate and co-penetrate without becoming entangled.

Obviously, these nine heavens are found located in nine superior dimensions. Ostensibly, they are nine parallel universes.

INFERNOS: It is good to remember the diverse religious infernos that we already stated.

Let us bring to mind all of the multiple pre-historic and historic infernos.

Chinese, Mohammedan, Buddhist, Christian (etc., etc., etc.) infernos exist everywhere.

All of the various infernos serve as a symbol for the submerged mineral kingdom...

user posted image

These nine cited infernos are also within us, here and now.

Dante, the disciple of Virgil, the Poet of Mantua, discovered with mystical astonishment the intimate relationship existing between the nine Dantesque circles and the nine heavens...

user posted image

The Bardo Thodol, the Tibetan Book which talks about the Spirits of the Afterlife World, shows us the crude reality of the infernal worlds, located within the interior of this planetary organism on which we live.

The nine Dantesque circles within the interior of the Earth are scientifically correlated with the nine submerged Infradimensions, under the tridimensional region of Euclid.

The cosmic existence of the infernal worlds in any world of the infinite space is evident and clear.

Obviously, the submerged mineral kingdoms are certainly not something exclusive to the planet Earth.

ANGELOLOGY: The whole Cosmos is directed, watched and animated by a series of almost interminable hierarchies of Cognizant Beings. Each one of them (whether they are called by one name or another, such as, Dhyan-Chohans, Angels or Devas, etc.) have a mission to accomplish, and are Messengers only in the sense that they are agents of Nemesis and Cosmic Laws. They vary in their respective degrees of consciousness and intelligence infinitely. All of them are perfect humans in the most complete sense of the word.

user posted image

The same way that geologists do not care if the ants of an anthill notice their presence while studying nature in the forest, likewise, these Cognizant Beings do not care if Intellectual Mammals notice their presence in Nature. They (intellectual mammals) won’t understand these Beings’ duties and cosmic activities.

user posted image

However, if you develop your inner-ultra-sensorial perceptions, you can see their activities within the superior parallel universes of nature and the cosmos!

Edited by Loge
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Atheism incites materialism and materialism incites injustice!

Athenian, explain why the richest people of the middle ages were churchmen and their accomplices? Seems to me that Theism incites materialism and injustice, not vice versa. Deism sees all organized religions as evil entities that pray upon their membership - in other words, they eat their own young! laugh.gif

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The Florentine Dante, disciple of Virgil, the great Poet of Mantua, in his Divine Comedy cites a terrible case related with atheism.

A shadow screamed:

“That which in life I was, in death I am. Though Jupiter tire out his armour, who supplied his wrathful hand with the sharp thunder-stone that in my last day smote me through the side, though he tire all the rest out, one by one, in Mongibel’s black stithy, and break them quite, crying, “To aid! Vulcan, lay on, lay on!” As once before he cried at Phlegra’s fight; yeah, though he crush me with his omnipotence, no merry vengeance shall his heart delight.”

The arrogance and pride of Atheists who are violent against the divine, in the Seventh Submerged Dantesque Infradimension, is the worst torture.

There exists violence against the divinity when we attempt against our own life, when we blaspheme wrathfully. There exist many subtle ways of violence against the divine; undoubtedly, the violent person against God is the one who does not want anything to do with mystical or spiritual matters, the one who assumes that they can exist without divine mercy and at the bottom of their soul rebels against everything that has the smell of divinity.

There exists violence against God in that self-sufficient person that smiles stupidly, in a skeptical manner, when he hears of matters that in some way have to do with the spiritual aspects of life.

There exists violence against God, in the intellectual rascals, in those know- it-ails that deny all spiritual possibilities to human beings; in those who believe that they have monopolized universal knowledge; in the models of wisdom; in. the learned ignoramuses who not only ignore but also ignore that they ignore, in the iconoclasts that raze to the ground when they analyze religious principles but who leave their followers without a new spiritual base.

There exists violence against God in the Marxist-Leninists, pseudo-sages that have taken away the spiritual values from humanity.

All of them deny that hell exists; they ignore that I-N-F-E-R-N-O comes from the Latin word Infernus (Inferior).

The Inferior Dimensions of Nature exist and the soul of any person who has experienced nightmares has unconsciously descended into those Infradimensions while their physical body is resting in their bed.

Heaven: Superior Dimensions that are related with the ultraviolet light whose quantum momentum is faster than the quantum momentum of this physical world.

Hell: Inferior Dimensions that are related with the infrared light whose quantum momentum is lower than the quantum momentum of this physical world

Heaven and hell are just parallel universes that sometimes the souls of people unconsciously experience while their physical bodies sleep in their beds or while they are under a physical surgery or during deadly accidents of life!

392554[/snapback]

Heaven is in what science refers to as 'space'. There are 7 levels of hell. On the 3rd Heaven is Heaven for humans and on the other side is hell for humans. The hell for the fallen angels is also in another place, on the edge of the universe. These places DO PHYSICALLY EXIST. They are not 'some other dimension'.

The 5th Heaven is where the Girgori, that one third of the angels that fell with satan went, and the remaining of the 200 angels which fell with women (another order of angels, NOT the Girgori) (the 3 given blame for the ENTIRE sin, Azzazel, Shemyazza (Azza, 'Shem' means 'name', so this is one and the same), and Uzza are bound under the Earth until the end.) are on the 2nd Heaven. When Enoch told those on the 5th Heaven to start praying again and in doing so, repenting, so as not to aggrivate the Lord anymore, they did so, and it appears, were in a certain sense, forgiven. God DOES forgive. But one must be sorry to begin with to be forgiven, obviously.

Azzazel was known as the 'scapegoat' and given alot of the blame for everything that was done, even though it was Shemyazza who said he'd take the blame for the ENTIRE blame. So, in that sense, the Earth became their hell (though there is another waiting for them). Whatever the case, Heaven AND Hell DO exist. There are 7 Heavens (with 3 levels on the 7th Heaven making it 10. Judiasm tells of the '10 steps to Heaven' they aren't jesting) and 7 levels of hell, with the worst of them in 3 levels on the 7th level. They both exist as much as the Earth does.

Edited by Ashley-Star*Child
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Heaven is in what science refers to as 'space'. There are 7 levels of hell. On the 3rd Heaven is Heaven for humans and on the other side is hell for humans. The hell for the fallen angels is also in another place, on the edge of the universe. These places DO PHYSICALLY EXIST. They are not 'some other dimension'.

397254[/snapback]

does this mean that angels could be ETs???? or even GOD itself an ET?

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Aliens are demons. NOT fallen angels, DEMONS. Demons are the offspring of the angels mixed with humans making them hybrids. It was said that the souls of these hybrids will become evil spirits upon the Earth.

Angels are referred to as stars throughout the entire Bible.

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Aliens are demons. NOT fallen angels, DEMONS. Demons are the offspring of the angels mixed with humans making them hybrids. It was said that the souls of these hybrids will become evil spirits upon the Earth.

Angels are referred to as stars throughout the entire Bible.

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but you said yourself that heaven is in space...and angels also live there ...so angels must be aliens...not demons...as demons are said to dwell on earth. so angels = alien, human = human, demon = alien human hybrid. that would make more sence than demons being aliens. if that is so, then what are angels, they cannot be stars because stars cannot be angels as stars are unable to reproduce with humans (you do know that stars are just like THE SUN dont you???)

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No, aliens aren't angels, and angels, being stars can themselves take on many forms, that's why some people see them as being a blinding 'light'.

Aliens are humanoid, and when it was said that they'd be evil spirits UPON the Earth it didn't necessarily mean ON the Earth. I'll explain below.

In Solomon (the orignal uncut version) a fallen angel explained what a falling star is (which is why you shouldn't wish on falling stars). The angel said that when an angel is fallen, they have no resting place in heaven anymore, and therefore, whilst they CAN ascend into Heaven (although the 3 talked about above are said to no longer be able to ascend into Heaven, different situation, different punishment. These 3 are talked about again later as 'the 3 that fell from Heaven') and see what's going on, they can't STAY there without that resting place, so they fall, and that is what you are seeing when you see a falling star.

Solomon had power over demons to punish them, and to make them build for him, and some were arrogant and told of how they were in from Heavens where their fathers (which they said were angels, there mothers human) were, and what did he want with them? But he was given by God, and with the help of Holy angels the power to make them do as he said, no matter how arrogant they were, they were under his control (for that time). Solomon was David's son, and Jesus was from the Root of David. The Star of David had importance too (it's not just a symbol of Judiasm, but I won't go into that). They they, therefore, were in the Heavens (some of the Heavens, as I've said above, contain hells), and they are aliens. They are the SOULS of the hybrids, and again can take on many forms.

Edited by Ashley-Star*Child
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