Our Own Paths

[Kat_Kloud]

The mind creates our world. Our universe.

Our beliefs are only as real as ourselves. If one believes enough in one thing, it just might happen in the afterlife. Or lakethereof. That is, if someone believes they are nothing more than flesh, that is what they will always be. One who believes they will pass on into another life, will.

There's never one ultimate truth. There's an individual truth for each and every one of us. If only people could understand that we each have our own path to follow. But it is up to a person to follow another's tracks... Yet they shouldn't be forced to walk down that road.

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Man I'm not so sure if these Christmas cookies are safe. I guess if I'm puking in the morning they weren't.

[SilverCougar]

Wiser words have never been said

[whoa182]

I believe that the After life will be proven false within the 21st century. 1 evidence of there not being after life may be through

Cryonics. Using nanotechnology and biotechnology to basicly bring back the Dead. Meaning possibly bringing back people that have been dead for years. THey will then tell us exactly what happend.

You know what I think they will say?

Its like Ive only just Died a second ago. Time is irrelivent to a dead person, time passes in an instant.

If we can use a method where, when we thaw a person, it wont damage cells. Then there might be chance. We know that we can freez things and it halts aging of cells, organs etc. You can also freeze a Frog and let it thaw. it will start hoping around. It has some sort of anti freeze

Edited January 6, 2005 by whoa182

[Kat_Kloud]

Mmhm. Interesting.

But your story has a flaw. If someone were to proceed to an afterlife, then their body resurrected, 1). Do you really think they'll be anything more than a walking zombie? 2). What makes you think their physical mind will, in any way, know anything about what their soul went though in the after life? That is of course, that everyone here at least believes that we have a soul. Which some of us don't.

Wiser words have never been said

Thank you...

[whoa182]

Well if it were to happen, it would definitly open up some debates on what happens after death, right?

I mean some people say they are reincarnated after death. If Cryonics ever works, this theory will totally be dead.

There is a sort of contradiction in something that you and they say about memory and soul memory. I'll try explain.

Ok some people say that you're soul also remembers you're Life. Otherwise how would you know you're family in heaven?

Some people say that memory is only physical, a part of the brain.

If the soul went to heaven. then got put back in its original body. It/you would have memory of heaven. make any sense?

The biggest problem is, Brain cells die quite rapidly after death, So a freezing proceedure needs to happen right away.

You can read about it here http://www.cryonics.org/reprise.html

Edited January 6, 2005 by whoa182

[Mad Manfred]

The mind creates our world. Our universe.

Our beliefs are only as real as ourselves. If one believes enough in one thing, it just might happen in the afterlife. Or lakethereof. That is, if someone believes they are nothing more than flesh, that is what they will always be. One who believes they will pass on into another life, will.

There's never one ultimate truth. There's an individual truth for each and every one of us. If only people could understand that we each have our own path to follow. But it is up to a person to follow another's tracks... Yet they shouldn't be forced to walk down that road.

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Man I'm not so sure if these Christmas cookies are safe. I guess if I'm puking in the morning they weren't.

438798[/snapback]

You have proof of course?

[ThePortal]

First before going any further, what I will say does not necesseraly shows my beliefs....how can we know for sure what is awaiting us after death anyways. I will merely point out belief system and why belivers might have a hard time with this theory

Well if it were to happen, it would definitly open up some debates on what happens after death, right?

I mean some people say they are reincarnated after death.  If Cryonics ever works, this theory will totally be dead.

perhaps not, I have read and read about reincarnation and it does not say that it is instant. Many speak of a waiting time or a time of resting.

And maybe too, it the soul as a way to think.....if he sees that is body has been frozen for being later revived, it might decided to wait around. Or perhaps since its body is not decaying, the soul might not think it is dead and wait around. Kind of like a coma state.

There is a sort of contradiction in something that you and they say about memory and soul memory. I'll try explain.

Ok some people say that you're soul also remembers you're Life. Otherwise how would you know you're family in heaven?

Some people say that memory is only physical, a part of the brain.

If the soul went to heaven. then got put back in its original body. It/you would have memory of heaven.  make any sense?

no it makes no sense

If reincarnation is real, then why is the information about our past lives and the afterlife hidden from us. Truth is, those two memory are considered different and do not communicate on a conscious level if they do communication in the first place.

So if we go by this logic, then no we would not remember heaven or any type of afterlife when we come back. The memory would be in our souls and would stay there unless it communicates on a subtel level and gives us back glimpse of what happened.

It makes me think about my husband. He is a mentalist and a hypnosist. Of all the accounts I have heard from the people who where hypnotised by him, they have no recollection of what happened during the session. Yes it comes back slowly but surely. They have flashback and dream about it. But this shows that some memories can be stored deep and hard to remember.

Perhaps this plays in here too, if there is a communication between memory of the soul and our own, these types of memory are so deep that we cannot remember by normal means on a concious level. This makes sense since none of us remember consciously any of our past lives, and only those who undergo many hypnosis session or a deep mediation have come with account of past lives.

Now if souls are true, then why dont we remember heaven now. It cant be because we are a new souls. Even if we are we would remember our soul ''creation'' right. To physics this does not makes sense, nothing can be created, only transformed. So if souls exist, then we have been around for a long time or we are a part of another soul, or we are a new soul ''created'' or more like transformed from something we do not know...I am only making hypothesis here... Since no one remember anything before this life, heaven or other lives, then no I do not think we would remember automaticly if we did die and go to heaven and came back with our defrozen body.

Now if the soul idea is true, this his all but a few reasons why true believers might not believe your experiment. And could debunk even your debunking if ever they can prove that we do have a soul.

And then again, perhaps you are right and there is indeed nothing. The soul the product of imagination to try to explain so many things that are not understood.

But before someone can fully debunk life after death. They would need first to prove we have no soul. Or have a FULL understanding of our memory, consciousness and subconscious etc.. no small task for any scientist who have tried until now. They have a hard time to even define it, let alone how it works.

But we never know, only time will tell

Until then, I formyself believe that all these possibilities are possible and I will only know for sure when I truly die

[ThePortal]

The mind creates our world. Our universe.

Our beliefs are only as real as ourselves. If one believes enough in one thing, it just might happen in the afterlife. Or lakethereof. That is, if someone believes they are nothing more than flesh, that is what they will always be. One who believes they will pass on into another life, will.

Kat Cloud, I liked what you said....even in our lives everything is about perception and no one sees the same.

If ever there is an afterlife, we may all get what we wish or we could all be just very surprised One of the mysteries of life that we will only truly know when we are there.....

There's never one ultimate truth. There's an individual truth for each and every one of us. If only people could understand that we each have our own path to follow. But it is up to a person to follow another's tracks... Yet they shouldn't be forced to walk down that road

very wise and well said

[Maekrix]

I didn't read the whole thread, but I wanted to offer this site about cryogenics:

www.alcor.org

And.. yes, everything is perception. I've been saying it all the time in other threads and people just don't want to agree.. *shrugs*.. I guess everything is just perception and there is no right way *heavy sigh*

[Kat_Kloud]

You have proof of course?

Of course not. To have proof you need an explanation. But this site is called unexplained mysteries, isn't it?

No. I don't have proof. This thread was made by what I think.

I mean some people say they are reincarnated after death. If Cryonics ever works, this theory will totally be dead.

Not nessisarily. If someone were to bring a body back from the dead, who is to say it will not function like a piece of broken machinery? Until this happens and until we can see how these bodies react and such, you can never know.

And if we all really do have souls, who is to say the soul will stick around in the body? I think if this "bringing people back from the dead" stuff ever happens, the bodies will be nothing more than flesh with only basic functions.

[whoa182]

We do bring people back to life everyday tho, I guess you all know that, But its just not as extreme as what cryonics talks about.

But have you heard of People that drown in extremely Cold icy waters, And have drowned for many 30 min to a couple of hours, Then being revived. The reason it was possible is because When you freeze, damage slows down i believe. I dont thnink they were in a state of being totally frozen, but Very cold.

Most people didnt show any signs of perminant brain damage either.

[Kat_Kloud]

What I'm trying to say is this:

If a human dies and comes back there is no possible way for their physical, tangible brain to have any memories of the after life. The after life is a place for souls, not actual human bodies.

So basically if the person were to be brought back to life, the last thing in its physical memory would be when it died. Finding out about the afterlife would be impossible, in those means.

But I do believe that certain dreams deliver messages from the soul. Of course none of this can be proven either. Dreams are a work of the brain, but perhaps the brain, when unconcious, can hear what it is our actual soul is trying to tell us.

[Mad Manfred]

Of course not. To have proof you need an explanation. But this site is called unexplained mysteries, isn't it?

No. I don't have proof. This thread was made by what I think

439804[/snapback]

So, basically you made it up...so how can you expect people to give any credibility to what you say?

[whoa182]

Sorry im not quite understanding that lol

erm, Ok if a soul does not learn and is only say activated upon death. Then how would you know you're family and remember anything about you're past life when you get to heaven.

If a soul is seperate from the mind then we wouldnt know if a person was broguht back to life.

if a Soul is you, and the sole learns ( wouldnt it have to to know you're friends and family that have died on earth.

We know that memery is a physical thing because, just take a look at a brain dead person, yes hes alive. but technically quite dead at the same time.

Now if 1 were to say, his soul has already left his body thats why hes not responded, hes basicly a zombie.

once again, Supposing that we had sort of advanced nanotech that would use cell repair. or some stem cells that would repair. If this person become fully functional again. This would show memory is only physical even more.

there are definitly problems with this argument, obviously I cannot prove that cryronics even work on humans yet. Therfor im only speculating on what would happen.

Is there anyway to look at things about the soul and what is supposed to happen in the bible.

I do see many problems with this argument you present still.

Sorry if I made a mess of this post, In a rush

I thought that the SOUL is what makes you , you. So I thought religion says that the soul learns. Memories are not totally a physical thing.

Edited January 7, 2005 by whoa182

[Kat_Kloud]

No it's just what I believe. Same as a lot of people.

Let me ask you this: A word like RUN can be proven. I mean, you can sit there and watch someone RUN. Can you see someone love? No. You can see someone hug, or kiss, but can you literally see someone love?

A lot of people believe in love. Do you? Or do you need to see it first?

[ABOTU]

I can see love. I can tell when someone looks at another with such adoration(probably not a word) that you can feel vibes between them

[Kat_Kloud]

Can you proove those vibes are there?

[whoa182]

I guess you cannot prove that some1 Loves or has strong feelings of emotion towards a person and be 100% sure by just looking at them.

But im no Neurologist so I dont know if these feelings can be picked up by using some sort of brain scanning.

I love yes. But are emotions unique and only in humans?

Here is a picture. When a Mother sees her new born baby. Im assuming that this part of the brain activated when she become emotional, and shes obviously loved her baby

You can see here. http://www.news.wisc.edu/packages/emotion/media.html

So if you put a few pads and wires on there head, Mabey you can see some1 love, feel emotions and what part of the brain activated.

But we still dont understand emotion properly.

Edited January 7, 2005 by whoa182

[Kat_Kloud]

Perhaps if you do these same tests when a person is seeing what it is they truly believe deep down inside themselves, you can see something a little more too.

My point is... what I feel cannot be proven. I also cannot prove that I feel extreme hate towards some things, and I can't prove that I love someone either. These are feelings deep inside you that only you can experience. You may be able to tell someone about these feelings, but there is no way you can PROOVE them to someone.

So, Mad Manfred... I didn't make it up. I didn't make love up, either. These are things I feel. These are things I know are there, but I have no way to show proof that they are there.