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When ‘God’s will,’ rape and pregnancy collide


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#31    GIDEON MAGE

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 03:26 AM

I can not possibly imagine anyone with a brain voting Republican right now.  If Romney gets elected, after his assassination,Vice Presidential candidate Eddie Munster will become president.  I psychically predict that this young man is the next potential hitler-like dicktator.

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#32    Rlyeh

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 06:01 AM

View Postwittyusernamefailed, on 28 October 2012 - 05:43 PM, said:

So we can remove the concept of god wanting a rape victim to be forced to carry on the pregnancy from said rape.
According to the Bible, God creates you in the womb. Those who believe this are faced with the dilemma of rape.


#33    orangepeaceful79

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 03:54 AM

View PostViviana98, on 25 October 2012 - 04:24 PM, said:

I'm absolutely sickened by this.

Seriously.  What a horrifying story. :(


#34    WoIverine

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 04:47 PM

Anybody else temporarily think this thread was about gods raping people who ended up pregnant, before reading the article?

"When gods will rape and pregnancy collides" lol

Edited by WoIverine, 30 October 2012 - 04:48 PM.


#35    seishin

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 04:54 PM

View PostRlyeh, on 25 October 2012 - 03:47 PM, said:

Is that the first thing that comes to mind when you think of abortion in these scenarios?

Well she sure didn't have a choice during the rape part.

Not really. I just don't think it's anyone else's business but the victim to make such determinations. Politically determining the legality of abortion doesn't sound constitutional.

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#36    Amalthe

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 09:56 AM

Problem with maistream religion is that on one hand, it glorifies the unborn life, and calls the created blastocell "a unique individual", and wants ti give him all rights, and whatever, but on other hand, grown men are considered a flock, chunks of meat who should work and pay for their church, someone who should be forced to feel threatened by other religions, etc. If you look at religious practices, it is always a collective approach where an individual person becomes insignificant in crowd. and that's really sad, for ccorect way to experience God should be on personal basis.


#37    Mr Walker

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 08:24 AM

View PostBeany, on 27 October 2012 - 03:11 PM, said:

I happen to know a woman who had a child that came out her being raped. Both her & her son's lives are so charged with emotion around this that neither are sure having the child was the best decision. We take life all the time, by the hundreds, and hundreds of thousands. It's called war. We put criminals to death. We let starving people die when we have the means to feed them. "And all of the people involved are viable human beings, walking, talking, breathing air, with families. The idea of calling abortion murder has it's genesis with the religious right, and when we bring God into the equation it becomes a religious issue. While I respect the religious beliefs of others, I do not want it legislated and forced on me or my community. All one has to do is look back in history to see what happens to a country when religious beliefs become paramount to all else: the Inquisition, witch burnings, land and property being taken away, executions, women being barred from education, men forced to wear beards, people's lives in danger because of their beliefs. It's a slippery slope, and one we should stay off us.

For me the concept of kiling an unborn human being a form of murder came about while  I was a secular humanist and atheist. It is just logical, philosophically ethically and morally, not to kill an unborn human UNLESS compelling rights of the mother overide those rights.

In general there are laws protecting the rights of living people, even if those laws are often broken. There is little current law protecting the rights of the unborn, mostly because  the rise of womens rights in the later half of the twentieth century overturned them. Unborn need the same spokespeople, articulate political activists and others, to protect them that women had in the mid to late 20th century, but are unlikely to find such people within their own numbers :innocent:  Thus it is up to others to speak and act for them.

Abortion is NOT a religious issue. Nor is euthanasia. Both are human rights issues, for every human being.

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#38    Mr Walker

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 08:43 AM

View PostRlyeh, on 29 October 2012 - 06:01 AM, said:

According to the Bible, God creates you in the womb. Those who believe this are faced with the dilemma of rape.

LOL Rape in marriage is a quite new concept.  Is it rape if god creates you within the bonds of his spiritual marriage to all human women.   Please note my tongue's position; firmly in cheek.

I am not so sure of the bible's position on this anyway. I think its writers understood the physical facts of procreation, but some did believe that our  human spirit or soul is passed into each human being by god, at conception, and taken back at death..

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#39    Rlyeh

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 08:52 AM

View PostMr Walker, on 03 November 2012 - 08:43 AM, said:

LOL Rape in marriage is a quite new concept. Is it rape if god creates you within the bonds of his spiritual marriage to all human women.   Please note my tongue's position; firmly in cheek.
I said nothing about marriage.


#40    Mr Walker

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 09:21 AM

View PostRlyeh, on 03 November 2012 - 08:52 AM, said:

I said nothing about marriage.
I know that But you spoke of god raping women. Can it be rape within a spiritual marriage of creator and created?

. My point was that, in the times you referred to, people saw the relationship thus, and so if god placed a human embryo in every human female it was not, in that culture, rape but an act of love within spiritual marriage.

Rape in mariage as a concept or a crime did not exist in western societies until the mid to late 20th century. Before that, even in a physical earthly marriage a man could not rape a wife because her consent to sex was legally conferred in their marriage  vows and could not be unilaterally withdrawn by her. This has been overturned in recent times, even retrospectively, but until the culture changed, a man could not rape his wife, and so how could a creator god rape any of his creations. Their consent was iimplicit, even explicitly understood, in the relationship between god and humanity. (At that time)

Of course we modern humnas know that god has nothing to do with the conception of children, nor with the creation of their spirit or soul. And so we know that god plays no part in the rape of a woman, or any children who might be born from rape.

Edited by Mr Walker, 03 November 2012 - 09:25 AM.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#41    Rlyeh

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 09:49 AM

View PostMr Walker, on 03 November 2012 - 09:21 AM, said:

I know that But you spoke of god raping women. Can it be rape within a spiritual marriage of creator and created?
I said no such thing.
I said the Bible suggests God forms humans in the womb. If correct, any rape that results in pregnancy, implies God formed the embryo knowing fully well the woman desired nothing of the sort and brings up further problems the women is forced to deal with.

Edited by Rlyeh, 03 November 2012 - 09:56 AM.


#42    ChloeB

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 02:21 PM

View PostDarkwind, on 26 October 2012 - 02:23 PM, said:

My stand is abortion is a women's health care issue and is between her and her doctor. The government need to stay out of women's uterus.

I think this is a great question for them:

Posted Image

Edited by ChloeB, 03 November 2012 - 02:24 PM.

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#43    Mnemonix

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 03:05 PM

View PostChloeB, on 03 November 2012 - 02:21 PM, said:

I think this is a great question for them:

Posted Image

They will say there is no such thing as a gay fetus because there is no 'gay gene'. You know how they are.


#44    orangepeaceful79

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 03:43 PM

View PostRlyeh, on 03 November 2012 - 09:49 AM, said:

I said no such thing.
I said the Bible suggests God forms humans in the womb. If correct, any rape that results in pregnancy, implies God formed the embryo knowing fully well the woman desired nothing of the sort and brings up further problems the women is forced to deal with.

Oh you know...but then they would just say that God has a plan and that God would never give anyone more than they could handle...blah blah blah.

That's the great thing about Christianity - if you are a true believer in it, nobody can ever really criticize you.  There's always a workaround.  You can always fall back on the tried and true - God's will is infallible....or even better....nobody can know or understand God's will.   Which is usually a rough translation for "I don't know the answer to your question, but I know that its making me uncomfortable...stop asking questions about God."

My, my...I'm in a cynical mood today, aren't i?


#45    FlyingAngel

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 09:10 PM

People always add "God" to any equation as a scapegoat, to flee from responsibility and to deny system failure

Edited by FlyingAngel, 03 November 2012 - 09:11 PM.





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