Jump to content




Welcome to Unexplained Mysteries! Please sign in or create an account to start posting and to access a host of extra features.


* * * * - 4 votes

Did man and dinosaur co-exist?


  • Please log in to reply
477 replies to this topic

#451    Essan

Essan

    Recruitment Agent for the 'B' Ark

  • Member
  • 2,332 posts
  • Joined:18 Mar 2005
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The other side

  • Stop Climate Change: Plant a Rain Forest Today!

Posted 20 March 2013 - 12:02 PM

View PostHarsh86_Patel, on 16 March 2013 - 05:03 AM, said:

Soft tissue found on dinosaur bones ..................any opinions?

Rare to find because soft tissue usually decays before fossilisation can take place - but under exceptional circumstances, even soft tissue can - and does - fossilise.  Hence why we have found fossilised soft tissue.   Simple really.

Andy

Weather & Earth Science News
The independent climate blog

#452    Harsh86_Patel

Harsh86_Patel

    Psychic Spy

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,306 posts
  • Joined:08 Aug 2012
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:India

  • If you stare into the abyss,the abyss stares back into you

Posted 20 March 2013 - 01:05 PM

View PostEssan, on 20 March 2013 - 12:02 PM, said:

Rare to find because soft tissue usually decays before fossilisation can take place - but under exceptional circumstances, even soft tissue can - and does - fossilise.  Hence why we have found fossilised soft tissue.   Simple really.
Scientist Mary Schweitzer and her team had placed a fossilized T. rex bone fragment in an acidic demineralizing bath to study its components and let the process take its full course. If the fossil had been nothing but rock, the bath would have dissolved absolutely everything. Instead, the process left behind soft tissue. When analyzed, the tissue appeared to be the blood vessels, bone matrix and osteocytes (the cells that build bone) of a 68-million-year-old dinosaur. For a full account of the study and the controversy that followed, read How did scientists find soft tissue in dinosaur fossils?

The soft tissue hadn't fossilised.


#453    Harte

Harte

    Supremely Educated Knower of Everything in Existence

  • Member
  • 8,967 posts
  • Joined:06 Aug 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Memphis

  • Skeptic

Posted 20 March 2013 - 02:21 PM

View PostEssan, on 20 March 2013 - 12:02 PM, said:

Rare to find because soft tissue usually decays before fossilisation can take place - but under exceptional circumstances, even soft tissue can - and does - fossilise.  Hence why we have found fossilised soft tissue.   Simple really.
Ain't seen ye 'round these parts lately, have we?

Harte

I've consulted all the sages I could find in yellow pages but there aren't many of them. - The Alan Parsons Project
Most people would die sooner than think; in fact, they do so. - Bertrand Russell
Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong. - Thomas Jefferson
Giorgio's dying Ancient Aliens internet forum

#454    Harsh86_Patel

Harsh86_Patel

    Psychic Spy

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,306 posts
  • Joined:08 Aug 2012
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:India

  • If you stare into the abyss,the abyss stares back into you

Posted 22 March 2013 - 11:33 AM

So we have established that the soft tissue found on the fossilsed Dino bone had not itself fossilised. Any opinions on the occurrence?


#455    kmt_sesh

kmt_sesh

    Telekinetic

  • 7,532 posts
  • Joined:08 Jul 2007
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Chicago, Illinois

Posted 22 March 2013 - 03:54 PM

View PostHarsh86_Patel, on 22 March 2013 - 11:33 AM, said:

So we have established that the soft tissue found on the fossilsed Dino bone had not itself fossilised. Any opinions on the occurrence?

I don't think the occurrence is yet well understood, from what I've read.

But I doubt I'm the only one who can see where you're trying to take this. No, this animal did not die anytime recently. The bone itself was fossilized—replaced by mineral deposition—which takes a great deal of time to do. This will not help the creationist agenda.

Posted Image
Words of wisdom from Richard Clopton:
For every credibility gap there is a gullibility fill.

Visit My Blog!

#456    TheSearcher

TheSearcher

    Coffee expert extraordinair

  • Member
  • 3,845 posts
  • Joined:16 Jun 2009
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Belgium

Posted 22 March 2013 - 04:24 PM

View PostHarsh86_Patel, on 22 March 2013 - 11:33 AM, said:

So we have established that the soft tissue found on the fossilsed Dino bone had not itself fossilised. Any opinions on the occurrence?

In a round-about manner only, we have soft tissue inside a fossilized T-rex bone. Soft Tissue which only apparently becomes apparent, when an acidic demineralizing bath is utilized to dissolve the rock. We don't know what their state was prior to the bath and we don't know what chemical reaction exactly happened. Things are clearly more complicated than one would think.

And I concur with Kmt, this is not proof that this is an animal that died "recently", so to speak, because from the same article :

Quote

But to another group, Schweitzer's findings make perfect sense. In the view of young-Earth creationists, soft tissue is proof that fossils aren't as old as scientists report. After all, according to scientific estimates, T. rex fossils are 65 million years old. Soft tissue and amino acids should last only a fraction of that time. Someone who believes the Earth is less than 10,000 years old may see Schweitzer's find as compelling evidence for a young Earth rather than a cause to re-examine the nature of fossilization. However, analysis using radiometric dating -- the method scientists use to determine the age of fossils -- conflicts with the idea of a 10,000-year-old Earth.

However, lets consider the find itself, this is an amazing occurrence of something never seen before. And lo and behold, nobody is trying to hide it, there is no science conspiracy or otherwise. Better even, scientists are trying to recreate this with other fossilized bones too, when you read the excerpt of the NOVA program with Schweitzer herself, she says so.

Edited by TheSearcher, 22 March 2013 - 04:42 PM.

It is only the ignorant who despise education.
Publilius Syrus.

So god made me an atheist. Who are you to question his wisdom?!

#457    Harsh86_Patel

Harsh86_Patel

    Psychic Spy

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,306 posts
  • Joined:08 Aug 2012
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:India

  • If you stare into the abyss,the abyss stares back into you

Posted 23 March 2013 - 08:29 AM

View Postkmt_sesh, on 22 March 2013 - 03:54 PM, said:

I don't think the occurrence is yet well understood, from what I've read.

But I doubt I'm the only one who can see where you're trying to take this. No, this animal did not die anytime recently. The bone itself was fossilized—replaced by mineral deposition—which takes a great deal of time to do. This will not help the creationist agenda.
Omg Bigotry?.

Bones can fossilise at a very fast pace Fossilisation can happen within short periods of time depending on conditions.


#458    Harte

Harte

    Supremely Educated Knower of Everything in Existence

  • Member
  • 8,967 posts
  • Joined:06 Aug 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Memphis

  • Skeptic

Posted 23 March 2013 - 12:29 PM

View PostTheSearcher, on 22 March 2013 - 04:24 PM, said:

However, lets consider the find itself, this is an amazing occurrence of something never seen before. And lo and behold, nobody is trying to hide it, there is no science conspiracy or otherwise. Better even, scientists are trying to recreate this with other fossilized bones too, when you read the excerpt of the NOVA program with Schweitzer herself, she says so.

Excellent point. :tu:

We should point these sorts of things out more often for the eduification of the "Scientists are in on a vast conspiracy to hide the truth from us" crowd.

Harte

I've consulted all the sages I could find in yellow pages but there aren't many of them. - The Alan Parsons Project
Most people would die sooner than think; in fact, they do so. - Bertrand Russell
Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong. - Thomas Jefferson
Giorgio's dying Ancient Aliens internet forum

#459    Waspie_Dwarf

Waspie_Dwarf

    Space Cadet

  • 32,100 posts
  • Joined:03 Mar 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bexleyheath, Kent, UK

  • We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

    Oscar Wilde

Posted 23 March 2013 - 01:37 PM

View PostHarsh86_Patel, on 23 March 2013 - 08:29 AM, said:

Omg Bigotry?.
To have a view point that differs from yours is not bigoted.

Arguably to make personal attacks on those that have a different view to you IS.

Please debate on a civil, grown up way and cut out the name calling. Thank you.

"Space is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-boggingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the street to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to space." - The Hitch-Hikers Guide to the Galaxy - Douglas Adams 1952 - 2001

Posted Image
Click on button

#460    TheSearcher

TheSearcher

    Coffee expert extraordinair

  • Member
  • 3,845 posts
  • Joined:16 Jun 2009
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Belgium

Posted 23 March 2013 - 02:45 PM

View PostHarsh86_Patel, on 23 March 2013 - 08:29 AM, said:

Omg Bigotry?.

Bones can fossilise at a very fast pace Fossilisation can happen within short periods of time depending on conditions.

Please explain how fast fossilization can happen, because in my book it does not happen within 10.000 years, not to the level that the T-rex bones we discuss were fossilized.  Also, please source the answer. You'll understand that I'll not take your word alone for it, sorry.

View PostHarte, on 23 March 2013 - 12:29 PM, said:

Excellent point. :tu:

We should point these sorts of things out more often for the eduification of the "Scientists are in on a vast conspiracy to hide the truth from us" crowd.

Harte

I try, I try, but it's not always evident to do so.

It is only the ignorant who despise education.
Publilius Syrus.

So god made me an atheist. Who are you to question his wisdom?!

#461    kmt_sesh

kmt_sesh

    Telekinetic

  • 7,532 posts
  • Joined:08 Jul 2007
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Chicago, Illinois

Posted 24 March 2013 - 04:15 AM

View PostHarsh86_Patel, on 23 March 2013 - 08:29 AM, said:

Omg Bigotry?.

...

Well, Harsh, it seems you've learned a new word as of late: bigotry.

That's fine. But please, learn what it means before you go tossing it all over the forum like a spilled bag of potato chips.

And while you're at it, properly learn about how fossilization occurs.

Posted Image
Words of wisdom from Richard Clopton:
For every credibility gap there is a gullibility fill.

Visit My Blog!

#462    SSilhouette

SSilhouette

    Remote Viewer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 524 posts
  • Joined:16 Aug 2012

Posted 24 March 2013 - 05:00 AM

Quote

To have a view point that differs from yours is not bigoted.

Arguably to make personal attacks on those that have a different view to you IS.

Please debate on a civil, grown up way and cut out the name calling. Thank you.

And thank you.  I can't tell you how many exploratory conversations have been completely shut down by someone saying "bigot"!


#463    Harsh86_Patel

Harsh86_Patel

    Psychic Spy

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,306 posts
  • Joined:08 Aug 2012
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:India

  • If you stare into the abyss,the abyss stares back into you

Posted 25 March 2013 - 06:43 AM

View PostWaspie_Dwarf, on 23 March 2013 - 01:37 PM, said:

To have a view point that differs from yours is not bigoted.

Arguably to make personal attacks on those that have a different view to you IS.

Please debate on a civil, grown up way and cut out the name calling. Thank you.
Why does giving credible and empirical evidence that Dinosaur and man could have coexisted considered as a 'creationist agenda'? Isn't labelling any debate in this direction as a creationist agenda,a form of bigotry?
I can tolerate all opinions from any person and i sincerely acknowledge the right of every individual to have his/her own opinion whether it concurs with my own or not,since i am tolerant i expect the same from others and don't like to be called names for the same.


#464    Harsh86_Patel

Harsh86_Patel

    Psychic Spy

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,306 posts
  • Joined:08 Aug 2012
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:India

  • If you stare into the abyss,the abyss stares back into you

Posted 25 March 2013 - 06:47 AM

View Postkmt_sesh, on 24 March 2013 - 04:15 AM, said:

Well, Harsh, it seems you've learned a new word as of late: bigotry.

That's fine. But please, learn what it means before you go tossing it all over the forum like a spilled bag of potato chips.

And while you're at it, properly learn about how fossilization occurs.
Throwing a word around is a crime that you are also guilty of,ever since my debate with Spartan you started accusing me with bigotry i am just following suite.
I have learned how fossilisation occurs why don't you check out the minimum time needed for fossilisation for yourself.


#465    TheSearcher

TheSearcher

    Coffee expert extraordinair

  • Member
  • 3,845 posts
  • Joined:16 Jun 2009
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Belgium

Posted 25 March 2013 - 07:56 AM

How about we all stop the discussion about bigotry and we go back to topic. Maybe answer the questions you are asked.

View PostTheSearcher, on 23 March 2013 - 02:45 PM, said:

Please explain how fast fossilization can happen, because in my book it does not happen within 10.000 years, not to the level that the T-rex bones we discuss were fossilized.  Also, please source the answer. You'll understand that I'll not take your word alone for it, sorry.



I try, I try, but it's not always evident to do so.


It is only the ignorant who despise education.
Publilius Syrus.

So god made me an atheist. Who are you to question his wisdom?!




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users