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The Ancient Alien Theory Is True


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#1981    Sir Wearer of Hats

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 12:04 PM

Quest, I'm sure it hasn't missed the notice of your borderline genius mind, but noone here is actully suggesting we're alone in the cosmos. Many have suggested we're the only higher sentience who've graced this blue-green sphere with our presence though, but that's hardly the same thing as aying we're alone in the universe. And it doesn't take a borderline genius to think we've been visited by aliens, just an imagination and  glib tongue.


#1982    Slave2Fate

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 12:09 PM

View PostQuestfortruth, on 15 December 2012 - 11:05 AM, said:

I'm sure some of you are sitting there laughing, thinking how crazy this is. Feeling like youre so certain of your opinions and beliefs.

Yet, from another perspective I see a small blue planet among a mass of solar systems spreading throughout a universe that cannot be measured, and the planets with-in cannot be assigned a number by our mathematical system because a number so close to infinity does not exist.

I sit here laughing at the fact that people in this day and age could possibly still think we are alone in the universe and have not been visited. In fact from a psychological standpoint I would say the very thought borderlines on insanity, and if not, in the very least, proof of social brainwashing.

We are like the very first people on a small island that have never left, and know nothing beyond what our eyes can see across the vast ocean. Yet for some reason we believe our island is all there is and nothing else exists... It's quite sad to think a race with such great potential can acutally produce people that still think like this.

Sometimes it's frustrating, even angering, but I cannot help but look back upon my religious and social brainwashing as child and feel pity and despair instead. I realize that my IQ borderlines geniuis, there for it could explain why I have been able to break away and free my mind. It shows me how weak and impressionable our brains are and how enough "brainwashing" can eventually take an almost permanent effect. So instead of showing anger, I feel the need to show compassion and do my very best to show people the truth, as not only does it free your mind but gives you a perspective on our world and the universe that humbles a person in a way that cannot be explained with words.

To flaunt your so called 'borderline genius IQ' and speak of humility in the same breath is no small contradiction that leaves both in question.

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#1983    zoser

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 01:20 PM

View PostOniomancer, on 13 December 2012 - 11:08 PM, said:

I understand that you didn't do any of the reading assignments you were given earlier in the thread.

From Stocks, per the first round of tests :

"Each test utilized a 1 cm-diameter reed tube which possessed 2 mm-thick walls"

Per copper:

"A piece of water pipe, 102 cm in length, 4.7 cm in diameter and with a wall thickness of 1.4 mm was found at the fifth dynasty pyramid complex at Sahure."

Can't find the dimensions for the copper tube he used but since the drill shaft he used is 2 cm, from the photos, the wall thickness must be somewhere in the neighborhood of 1-2mm.

(I was mistaken about the completeness of linked material. I also mistakenly used the term saws twice in  the last post when I meant drills.)

I would add that since many of the cores found are tapered, it's also conceivable that thickness of the tube correspondingly decreased toward the leading edge for strength..

I did not talk around the point in question, but called you out specifically on it along the your general claim about copper. You are again  assuming both that copper can't be used in the manner described and actually demonstrated by stocks and that thin walled copper tubing must be too fragile to use. I'm seeing nothing to back up these claims and plenty to refute them.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe too that an open tube resists compression lengthwise better relative to it's width compression, and since all of what little force being used on a tube drill besides torgue is being directed down...

From what you say, dunn might as well be measuring the effects of using zucchini for all the relevance lasers have in direct comparison to copper tubing.


Edit to add: The AE's capacity to make copper tubing at all has also been called into question. I believe the above quote coupled with further references from Stocks, et al, dispenses with that.

OK.  I checked out what I believe to be the 'evidence' you refer to.  It appears to be some tests done in Manchester.  Here is the link to the 'evidence' so that you may confirm if this is the info you refer to.

http://chronologia.o...om=11717&omm=15

Quite frankly if it were me I would be embarrassed to table it as evidence.  The site does indeed refer to a 1.4 mm wall thickness copper tube found in a 5th Dynasty pyramid.  A number of points worry me though.

First I can find no picture of it.  Second there is no write up about it.  So one has to ask was it even an Egyptian artefact?  Could it have been contemporary material left behind by someone, Egyptian or even British?  I'm not saying it was not a real artefact, but I couldn't find anything about it and it seems to be a little too anecdotal to take seriously.

Then there is the question of not where is it, but where are they?  These precision holes are to be found all over the place in different parts of the world.  They must have been made in mass production to have produced the relics found.  Where are they? What is the specification of the artefact?  Was it 1.4 mm consistent or did it vary?

The mass production hypothesis is further born out by this from the above website:

Posted Image

Look at the paltry hole depth achieved!  Look at the tube length lost to achieve it and the time taken!  For every cm of hole bored there is 1.5 cm of copper tube lost!  Is this really sustainable considering the number of holes found?  Could the ancients have kept pace with this material loss?  These questions need to be asked.  Here is a quote from the above website:

The reed drill-tube used with wet sand abrasive soon softened and spread outward and inward, thus completely filling the originally hollow interior with softened stem material. Despite this alteration to the tube's configuration, it performed useful work upon the soft limestone, but performed poorly upon the hard limestone and the calcite. However, because the drill had assumed the shape of a solid stalk, instead of a tube, penetration into the soft limestone was reduced, even though the volumetric rate of drilling remained similar to that of the tube in use with dry sand. The use of the reed tubes upon the coarse-grained hard sandstone and granite, utilizing wet or dry sand abrasive, so badly damaged them that no useful cutting could be achieved .

So what can one conclude from this?  You decide.


If the lost tubes can be found in AE then maybe the investigators can find them in Peru and Bolivia too.  Good luck with that.  In Bolivia at PP there are literally hundreds of holes requiring an enormous amount of copper.

It doesn't say what diameter of hole this refers to either which is also disappointing.  

So is this 'evidence' satisfactory to disprove the advanced technology hypothesis?  I'll let you decide.  One pipe found in a pyramid that nobody knows anything about. A test done in Manchester where a hole was bored to a paltry depth and an unsustainable amount of copper lost in the process.

No analysis done on the cutting marks to verify that the method was the same as the AE aretfacts.  Chris Dunn has done this and has already proved that it wasn't.

So just in case there are those who think that what Mr O posts is rational. Consider the above and decide if it actually is.

One last point from me.

The archaeological and orthodox science world does this kind of thing a lot.  Performs some half baked testing, and finds a relic that kind of matches what they think satisfies the evidence and then it makes sweeping outlandish claims to put the matter to rest.

My advice to those doing a similar exercise would be that if the skeptics post a link to some claimed evidence then follow it up.  I did it with Abe and nor Mr O and found serious flaws.  I bet you will too.

I object to that.  It's not Mr O's or Abe's fault and I'm in no way having a go at them. I object to the outlandish assumptions based on the most paltry of analysis.

This has robbed the human race of it's right to the truth.

Edited by zoser, 15 December 2012 - 01:33 PM.

Posted Image


#1984    Admiral Rhubarb

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 01:43 PM

I may not be a borderline genius, but at least I can spell it.
:innocent:

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#1985    zoser

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 01:45 PM

View Post747400, on 15 December 2012 - 01:43 PM, said:

I may not be a borderline genius, but at least I can spell it.
:innocent:

I can vouch for you Mr Omsk.  Your avatar doesn't do you justice though!

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#1986    Abramelin

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 01:53 PM

Zoser, my only fault is that I showed you that Spanish chroniclers were present when the Incas were still busy building their structures.

Whatever technology they used, there were no aliens involved, and that is what this thread is originally all about.


#1987    Gaden

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 04:01 PM

View PostSlave2Fate, on 15 December 2012 - 12:09 PM, said:

To flaunt your so called 'borderline genius IQ' and speak of humility in the same breath is no small contradiction that leaves both in question.

Funny thing about humility, once you realise you're being humble, you're no longer humble.

I'm trying to see things from your point of view, I just can't get my head that far up my butt

#1988    zoser

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 05:25 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 15 December 2012 - 01:53 PM, said:

Zoser, my only fault is that I showed you that Spanish chroniclers were present when the Incas were still busy building their structures.

Whatever technology they used, there were no aliens involved, and that is what this thread is originally all about.

No worries Abe; I'm enjoying the thread anyway.  I can't believe there is another site where the subject is being debated as intensely as this.  See you soon.

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#1989    Uncle Sam

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 05:28 PM

I have no question we probably been visited in the past, but there is no evidence that they have contacted us or even meddle with our internal politics or our course in history.

A man's ethical behaviour should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death. - Albert Einstein

#1990    synchronomy

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 05:36 PM

View Postzoser, on 15 December 2012 - 05:25 PM, said:

No worries Abe; I'm enjoying the thread anyway.  I can't believe there is another site where the subject is being debated as intensely as this.  See you soon.
I enjoy it too.  It one of the best going right now IMHO.
If fact I enjoy UM more than any other.
Sure beats the heck out of that ATS forum afaic.

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This is how deep truths are winnowed from deep nonsense. -- Carl Sagan

#1991    Oniomancer

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 06:34 PM

View Postzoser, on 15 December 2012 - 01:20 PM, said:

OK.  I checked out what I believe to be the 'evidence' you refer to.  It appears to be some tests done in Manchester.  Here is the link to the 'evidence' so that you may confirm if this is the info you refer to.

http://chronologia.o...om=11717&omm=15

Quite frankly if it were me I would be embarrassed to table it as evidence.  The site does indeed refer to a 1.4 mm wall thickness copper tube found in a 5th Dynasty pyramid.  A number of points worry me though.

First I can find no picture of it.  Second there is no write up about it.  So one has to ask was it even an Egyptian artefact?  Could it have been contemporary material left behind by someone, Egyptian or even British?  I'm not saying it was not a real artefact, but I couldn't find anything about it and it seems to be a little too anecdotal to take seriously.

Try here instead (page 113):
http://books.google....be drill&f=true

Those little numbers are footnotes in the complete text to the original reports whose absence has you so worried. Note too the reference to in situ sockets I omitted.


Quote

Then there is the question of not where is it, but where are they?  These precision holes are to be found all over the place in different parts of the world.  They must have been made in mass production to have produced the relics found.  Where are they? What is the specification of the artefact?  Was it 1.4 mm consistent or did it vary?

Seriously? Where are the all the advanced machines that are supposed to've been in use? No evidence exists of even the capacity to create one unlike copper and bronze, of which innumerable examples have been found. And then there's the traces of verdigris found in some of these holes. But more on that later.
A simple tube is not contructionally equivalent to an ultrasonic drill.  Attempting to infer that such a thing was beyond their abilities only serves to weaken your argument.


Quote

The mass production hypothesis is further born out by this from the above website:

Posted Image

Look at the paltry hole depth achieved!  Look at the tube length lost to achieve it and the time taken!  For every cm of hole bored there is 1.5 cm of copper tube lost!  Is this really sustainable considering the number of holes found?  Could the ancients have kept pace with this material loss?

And there's where your drills went. And here's your sign.

Quote

These questions need to be asked.

Many questions indeed. And these bring up questions of their own, Such as exactly how many holes have actually been found in granite specifically and to what depth? And so many variables. What difference would it make if bronze were used? What if the abrasives were adhered to the tube as in most such tools?

However, this continues to dance around the main point again that Stocks produced actual results, and in-arguably demonstrated the feasibility of the method.

Quote

Here is a quote from the above website:

The reed drill-tube used with wet sand abrasive soon softened and spread outward and inward, thus completely filling the originally hollow interior with softened stem material. Despite this alteration to the tube's configuration, it performed useful work upon the soft limestone, but performed poorly upon the hard limestone and the calcite. However, because the drill had assumed the shape of a solid stalk, instead of a tube, penetration into the soft limestone was reduced, even though the volumetric rate of drilling remained similar to that of the tube in use with dry sand. The use of the reed tubes upon the coarse-grained hard sandstone and granite, utilizing wet or dry sand abrasive, so badly damaged them that no useful cutting could be achieved .

So what can one conclude from this?  You decide.

I conclude that all but the last sentence doesn't exactly help your case, and that for the last, the same arguements for copper apply.
I have seen reports of primitive living enthusiasts drilling holes in granite using cane so a question arises as to the efficiency of Stocks'  chosen technique.


Quote

If the lost tubes can be found in AE then maybe the investigators can find them in Peru and Bolivia too.  Good luck with that.  In Bolivia at PP there are literally hundreds of holes requiring an enormous amount of copper.

See above, although it should be pointed out that they had access to several native species of bamboo, (from the same source as the timber that's a lot closer than claimed.) which the chinese have successfully used for drilling hard stones like jade for thousands of years, so they must know something Stocks doesn't.

Quote

It doesn't say what diameter of hole this refers to either which is also disappointing.  

Yes, it's a pain finding proper references. I had the full text bookmarked on scribd once but it got taken down.

Quote

So is this 'evidence' satisfactory to disprove the advanced technology hypothesis?  I'll let you decide.  One pipe found in a pyramid that nobody knows anything about. A test done in Manchester where a hole was bored to a paltry depth and an unsustainable amount of copper lost in the process.

Proof of concept trumps speculation every time.

Quote

No analysis done on the cutting marks to verify that the method was the same as the AE aretfacts.  Chris Dunn has done this and has already proved that it wasn't.

He has done no such thing, as to date, to my knowledge he has only examined one mark on one core (With string. How's that for, paltry analysis?) and did we not establish above that one example is insufficient evidence? Well, one of us did anyway.

Quote

So just in case there are those who think that what Mr O posts is rational. Consider the above and decide if it actually is.

One last point from me.

The archaeological and orthodox science world does this kind of thing a lot.  Performs some half baked testing, and finds a relic that kind of matches what they think satisfies the evidence and then it makes sweeping outlandish claims to put the matter to rest.

My advice to those doing a similar exercise would be that if the skeptics post a link to some claimed evidence then follow it up.  I did it with Abe and nor Mr O and found serious flaws.  I bet you will too.

I object to that.  It's not Mr O's or Abe's fault and I'm in no way having a go at them. I object to the outlandish assumptions based on the most paltry of analysis.

This has robbed the human race of it's right to the truth.

Ditto. Only the names have changed, and it's not the innocent that are being protected.

The Truth? I think it's safe to say that you literally can't handle the truth.

"Apparently the Lemurians drank Schlitz." - Intrepid "Real People" reporter on finding a mysterious artifact in the depths of Mount Shasta.

#1992    Oniomancer

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 06:40 PM

View Postzoser, on 15 December 2012 - 05:25 PM, said:

No worries Abe; I'm enjoying the thread anyway.  I can't believe there is another site where the subject is being debated as intensely as this.  See you soon.

You should try ATS sometime.  Or  talk.origins and alt.Archaeology on usenet. That last is unmoderated, though it's kind of quiet nowdays.

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#1993    Abramelin

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 06:52 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 15 December 2012 - 11:57 AM, said:

Ancient Aliens... hey, were these guys still around in the 6th century AD??

Posted Image


The Mausoleum of Theodoric (Italian: Mausoleo di Teodorico) is an ancient monument just outside Ravenna, Italy. It was built in 520 AD by Theodoric the Great as his future tomb.

The current structure of the mausoleum is divided into two decagonal orders, one above the other; both are made of Istria stone. Its roof is a single 300–ton Istrian stone, 10 meters in diameter.


http://en.wikipedia....um_of_Theodoric


Successor to Odoacer, the Goth king Theodoric (493-526) ruled over Ravenna and contributed to the embellishment of the city. His mausoleum, built in 520, is a curious building, built from stones of enormous size and crowned with an astonishing monolithic dome 11m in diameter in Istrian stone. The very sober interior has a Romanesque porphyry basin converted into sarcophagus.

http://travel.michel...delle_Industrie


tomb of Theodoric (Sta. Maria della Rotonda, a decagonal two-storied mausoleum, with a low dome cut from a single stone 36 feet in diameter), 530–540.

http://www.bookiejar...-h@arch1-2.html


The roof is composed of one enormous block of Istrian marble 33 feet in diameter, 3 feet in height, and weighing, it is said, nearly 300 tons. It is a marvel and a mystery how, with the comparatively rude engineering appliances of that age, so ponderous a mass can have been transported from such a distance and raised to such a height. At equal intervals round the outside of this shallow, dome-like roof, twelve stone brackets are attached to it. They are now marked with the names of eight Apostles and of the four Evangelists. One conjecture as to their destination is that they were originally crowned with statues, perhaps of these Apostles and Evangelists; another, to me not very probable, is, that the ropes used (if any were used) in lifting the mighty monolith to its place were passed through these, which would thus be the handles of the dome.

http://www.third-mil...EODORIC/14.html

.

Zoser (or anyone supporting the AA story), you have an explanation for how they built that thing?

A block of stone weighing almost 300 tons... as a roof.


#1994    Big Bad Voodoo

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 07:20 PM

View Postsynchronomy, on 15 December 2012 - 05:36 PM, said:

I enjoy it too.  It one of the best going right now IMHO.
If fact I enjoy UM more than any other.
Sure beats the heck out of that ATS forum afaic.

I dont like that ATS site at all. Design is horrible. My head hurts me when I went there so I stop going there. Maybe they change it?...Okay I checked it. No they didnt. :wacko:
In fact I dont know any forum good as UM for this kind of threads.

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For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy..."

#1995    Big Bad Voodoo

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 08:09 PM

:innocent:



JFK: "And we are as a people, inherently and historically, opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths, and to secret proceedings.
For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy..."