Jump to content




Welcome to Unexplained Mysteries! Please sign in or create an account to start posting and to access a host of extra features.


* * * * - 3 votes

IRS Lerner takes 5th, refusing to sign return

lerner irs tea party scandal target

  • Please log in to reply
23 replies to this topic

Poll: Lerner taking the 5th, is like failing to sign your tax return (11 member(s) have cast votes)

Given that Ms. Lerner has taken the 5th, does this violate the Equal Protection Clause?

  1. Yes, it clearly violates the Equal Protection Clause, because taxpayers are required to testify against themselves when they answer the questions on their tax return, and can be held criminally liable if they make a mistake in answering those questions (10 votes [90.91%])

    Percentage of vote: 90.91%

  2. No, there are two 5th Amendment standards, one for IRS employees testifying before the Congress, and one for taxpayers answering questions on their return (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  3. I'm afraid to answer this poll because I view the IRS as a God, and God can threaten to, or kill me, however and whenever IT wants. My only appeal is to a Higher God. (1 votes [9.09%])

    Percentage of vote: 9.09%

Vote Guests cannot vote

#1    Raptor Witness

Raptor Witness

    Savant

  • Member
  • 2,774 posts
  • Joined:17 Sep 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:So beautiful

  • ראה

Posted 29 May 2013 - 06:07 PM

Nobody on Capitol Hill seems to care that we have an Equal Protection Clause in our Constitution. It's as if the separation of church and state is being invoked by the IRS.

On the one hand you have God, Ms. Lerner, who isn't required to testify or answer questions about her activities, and on the other, the millions of taxpayers ... who must.

There's so much blood in the water on this, that even the sharks are blinded by it.



The Equal Protection Clause, part of the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution, provides that "no state shall ... deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."[1] The Fourteenth Amendment Equal Protection Clause applies only to state governments, but the requirement of equal protection has been read to apply to the federal government as a component of Fifth Amendment due process. [source]

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Signing your Federal Income Tax Return

You are required to sign your tax return. By signing the return, you are declaring under penalty of perjury that your tax return is accurate. You must not cross out, put a line through, or white out the perjury statement just above the signature line. If you do so, the IRS will consider your tax return "frivolous" and assess a $500 civil penalty.

Edited by Raptor Witness, 29 May 2013 - 06:27 PM.

Posted Image "Make Manifest Destiny a memory ..." 12-7-2011  "When the earth is displaced fully three times at the point of destiny ..." 10-29-2013

#2    Kowalski

Kowalski

    The Original Penguin Conspiracy Theorist

  • Member
  • 4,102 posts
  • Joined:14 Mar 2013
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:* Madgascar *

  • It's All Some Kind Of Wacked Out Conspiracy....

Posted 29 May 2013 - 06:27 PM

View PostRaptor Witness, on 29 May 2013 - 06:07 PM, said:

Nobody on Capitol Hill seems to care that we have an Equal Protection Clause in our Constitution. It's as if the separation of church and state is being invoked by the IRS.

On the one hand you have God, Ms. Lerner, who isn't required to testify or answer questions about her activities, and on the other, the millions of taxpayers ... who must.

There's so much blood in the water on this, that even the sharks are blinded by it.



The Equal Protection Clause, part of the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution, provides that "no state shall ... deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."[1] The Fourteenth Amendment Equal Protection Clause applies only to state governments, but the requirement of equal protection has been read to apply to the federal government as a component of Fifth Amendment due process. [source]

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Signing your Federal Income Tax Return

You are required to sign your tax return. By signing the return, you are declaring under penalty of perjury that your tax return is accurate. You must not cross out, put a line through, or white out the perjury statement just above the signature line. If you do so, the IRS will consider your tax return "frivolous" and assess a $500 civil penalty.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

You are absolutely right! Thumbs up! :tu:

When you are going through an audit by the IRS, you don't get to plead the Fifth....


#3    Bama13

Bama13

    Poltergeist

  • Member
  • 2,232 posts
  • Joined:09 Aug 2011
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Just Southeast of God's country

Posted 29 May 2013 - 06:59 PM

View PostRaptor Witness, on 29 May 2013 - 06:07 PM, said:

Nobody on Capitol Hill seems to care that we have an Equal Protection Clause in our Constitution. It's as if the separation of church and state is being invoked by the IRS.

On the one hand you have God, Ms. Lerner, who isn't required to testify or answer questions about her activities, and on the other, the millions of taxpayers ... who must.

There's so much blood in the water on this, that even the sharks are blinded by it.



The Equal Protection Clause, part of the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution, provides that "no state shall ... deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."[1] The Fourteenth Amendment Equal Protection Clause applies only to state governments, but the requirement of equal protection has been read to apply to the federal government as a component of Fifth Amendment due process. [source]

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Signing your Federal Income Tax Return

You are required to sign your tax return. By signing the return, you are declaring under penalty of perjury that your tax return is accurate. You must not cross out, put a line through, or white out the perjury statement just above the signature line. If you do so, the IRS will consider your tax return "frivolous" and assess a $500 civil penalty.

Nobody that works for the government should be able to plead the 5th when asked questions pertaining to their job.

" Mighty little force is needed to control a man whose mind has been hoodwinked; contrariwise, no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything —you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him" - Robert Heinlein

#4    Jessica Christ

Jessica Christ

    jeanne d'arc, je te suivrai

  • Member
  • 3,636 posts
  • Joined:27 May 2011
  • Gender:Not Selected
  • Location:This new war has taken a toll on families, my part is coming to a close on this front, leaving soon on a mayday.

  • It seems so important now but you will get over.
    -AF

Posted 29 May 2013 - 09:08 PM

Oliver North did.


#5    Sir Wearer of Hats

Sir Wearer of Hats

    SCIENCE!

  • Member
  • 12,881 posts
  • Joined:08 Nov 2008
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Queensland, Australia.

Posted 29 May 2013 - 09:21 PM

Her pleading the Fifth as an American citizen is fair. Her being in the job she's in, being asked to comment upon the things she is and still pleading the Fifth is hypocrisy on a scale rarely seen even in America.

I seem to recall being told that pleading the Fifth is only legally biding if that is ALL you do, as in from the moment you take the stand, after the "truth, whole truth" bit all you say is "I plead the fifth amendment" and nothing else, if you answer a single question your defence via the fifth is null - is that true?

I must not fear. Fear is the Mind-Killer. It is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and to move through me. And when it is gone I will turn the inner eye to see it's path.
When the fear is gone, there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.

#6    Kowalski

Kowalski

    The Original Penguin Conspiracy Theorist

  • Member
  • 4,102 posts
  • Joined:14 Mar 2013
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:* Madgascar *

  • It's All Some Kind Of Wacked Out Conspiracy....

Posted 29 May 2013 - 09:27 PM

View PostSir Wearer of Hats, on 29 May 2013 - 09:21 PM, said:

Her pleading the Fifth as an American citizen is fair. Her being in the job she's in, being asked to comment upon the things she is and still pleading the Fifth is hypocrisy on a scale rarely seen even in America.

I agree! Not to mention the fact, when the IRS audits you, you don't get to plead the Fifth.....They literally crawl up your butt with a microscope. :no:


#7    Gummug

Gummug

    Poltergeist

  • Member
  • 2,386 posts
  • Joined:14 Apr 2009
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Kansas

  • "There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy" -- Shakespeare

Posted 29 May 2013 - 09:43 PM

I am getting sick and tired and utterly fed up with the self-serving hypocrisy in government. I do believe we have still some decent people in congress (Ron Paul imo comes to mind) but I wish more people would get outraged. Richard Nixon resigned over less imo.
eta: Many of these people are public servants in name only imo...who knows what strange god they really serve, maybe the god of money. :(

Edited by Gummug, 29 May 2013 - 09:44 PM.

Posted Image


#8    Kowalski

Kowalski

    The Original Penguin Conspiracy Theorist

  • Member
  • 4,102 posts
  • Joined:14 Mar 2013
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:* Madgascar *

  • It's All Some Kind Of Wacked Out Conspiracy....

Posted 29 May 2013 - 09:59 PM

View PostGummug, on 29 May 2013 - 09:43 PM, said:

I am getting sick and tired and utterly fed up with the self-serving hypocrisy in government. I do believe we have still some decent people in congress (Ron Paul imo comes to mind) but I wish more people would get outraged. Richard Nixon resigned over less imo.
eta: Many of these people are public servants in name only imo...who knows what strange god they really serve, maybe the god of money. :(

I completely agree with you. We do have a couple of good people in Washington, but the majority of them a crooks and liars. And yes, Nixon resigned over less. Obama is the president, Nixon always wished he could be. :no:

I think you might like this article:



Quote

NIXOBAMA: Powerful Video Compares Scandal Responses


A striking video has been posted to the web directly comparing disgraced president Richard Nixon’s comments over the Watergate scandal with president Obama’s reaction to the multiple scandals his administration is currently embroiled in.
On August 9, 1974, president Richard Nixon resigned from office following damning revelations regarding a cover up relating to a break-in at the Democratic National Committee headquarters at the Watergate office complex. Eventually the scandal also resulted in the indictment, trial, conviction, and incarceration of dozens of Nixon’s top administration officials.
Prior to his resignation, Nixon’s responses to the scandal were to feign ignorance, point to inaccurate talking points provided by aides, cite national security, and encourage the media to let him do his job. Fascinatingly, Obama has made almost exactly the same comments.
Is history repeating itself? Are the two presidents singing from the same scandal-ridden hymn sheet? Judge for yourself:


Nixon: “I first learned from news reports…”
Obama: “I first learned about it from the same news reports that I think most people learned about this.”

Nixon: “The comments I made during this period, the comments made by my press secretary on my behalf were based on the information provided to us at the time we made those comments.”
Obama: “Keep in mind by the way these so-called talking points that were prepared…pretty much matched the assessments that I was receiving at that time.”

Nixon: “And had we not had that kind of security, and that kind of secrecy that allowed for that kind of exchange that is essential…”
Obama: “Leaks related to national security can put people at risk…”

Nixon: “I must now turn my full attention, and I shall do so once again, to the larger duties of this office…”
Obama: “Others may get distracted by chasing every fleeting issue that passes by, but the middle class will always be my number one focus. Period.”

The makers of the video at the Revealing Politics Blog note one statement Nixon made that Obama has yet to make – “In any organization, the man at the top must bear the responsibility. That responsibility, therefore, belongs here in this office. I accept it.”
Watch the video:








Taken from http://www.infowars....ndal-responses/

Quote


Top Constitutional Experts: Obama Is Worse than Nixon


In the wake of the twin scandals of the IRS targeting conservative groups and the Department of Justice spying on AP reporters, the comparisons between Obama and Nixon are everywhere.
But what do experts say?
Former New York Times general counsel James Goodale – who represented the paper during its Pentagon Papers fight with the Nixon administration – said in an interview yesterday that Obama isworse than Nixon when it comes to press freedoms. And see this.
Former constitutional lawyer Glenn Greenwald noted last year:


We supposedly learned important lessons from the abuses of power of the Nixon administration, and then of the Bush administration: namely, that we don’t trust government officials to exercise power in the dark, with no judicial oversight, with no obligation to prove their accusations. Yet now we hear exactly this same mentality issuing from Obama, his officials and defenders to justify a  far more extreme power than either Nixon or Bush dreamed of asserting: he’s only killing The Bad Citizens, so there’s no reason to object!

Jonathan Turley – perhaps the top constitutional law expert in the United States (and a liberal) – writes:
The painful fact is that Barack Obama is the president that Nixon always wanted to be.
Four decades ago, Nixon was halted in his determined effort to create an “imperial presidency” with unilateral powers and privileges. In 2013, Obama wields those very same powers openly and without serious opposition. The success of Obama in acquiring the long-denied powers of Nixon is one of his most remarkable, if ignoble, accomplishments. Consider a few examples:
Warrantless surveillance
Nixon’s use of warrantless surveillance led to the creation of a special court called theForeign Intelligence Surveillance Court (FISA). But the reform turned out to be more form than substance. The secret court turned “probable cause” into a meaningless standard, virtually guaranteeing any surveillance the government wanted. After hundreds of thousands of applications over decades, only a couple have ever been denied.
Last month, the Supreme Court crushed any remaining illusions regarding FISA when itsided with the Obama administration in ruling that potential targets of such spying had to have proof they were spied upon before filing lawsuits, even if the government has declared such evidence to be secret. That’s only the latest among dozens of lawsuits the administration has blocked while surveillance expands exponentially.
Unilateral military action
Nixon’s impeachment included the charge that he evaded Congress’ sole authority to declare war by invading Cambodia. In the Libyan “mission,” Obama announced that only he had the inherent authority to decide what is a “war” and that so long as he called it something different, no congressional approval or even consultation was necessary. He proceeded to bomb a nation’s capital, destroy military units and spend more than a billion dollars in support of one side in a civil war.
Kill lists
Nixon ordered a burglary to find evidence to use against Daniel Ellsberg, who gave the famed Pentagon Papers to the press, and later tried to imprison him. Ellsberg was later told of a secret plot by the White House “plumbers” to “incapacitate” him in a physical attack. It was a shocking revelation. That’s nothing compared with Obama’s assertion of the right to kill any U.S. citizen without a charge, let alone conviction, based on his sole authority. A recently leaked memo argues that the president has a right to kill a citizeneven when he lacks “clear evidence (of) a specific attack” being planned.


To read the rest, see: http://www.infowars....rse-than-nixon/


Thought you might like those if you haven't read it yet.
:)


#9    Raptor Witness

Raptor Witness

    Savant

  • Member
  • 2,774 posts
  • Joined:17 Sep 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:So beautiful

  • ראה

Posted 30 May 2013 - 03:15 AM

View PostSir Wearer of Hats, on 29 May 2013 - 09:21 PM, said:

Her pleading the Fifth as an American citizen is fair. Her being in the job she's in, being asked to comment upon the things she is and still pleading the Fifth is hypocrisy on a scale rarely seen even in America.

I seem to recall being told that pleading the Fifth is only legally biding if that is ALL you do, as in from the moment you take the stand, after the "truth, whole truth" bit all you say is "I plead the fifth amendment" and nothing else, if you answer a single question your defence via the fifth is null - is that true?
I've heard at least one talking head say that you're correct, but this is God we're dealing with, so I guess anything is possible.

Posted Image "Make Manifest Destiny a memory ..." 12-7-2011  "When the earth is displaced fully three times at the point of destiny ..." 10-29-2013

#10    Raptor Witness

Raptor Witness

    Savant

  • Member
  • 2,774 posts
  • Joined:17 Sep 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:So beautiful

  • ראה

Posted 30 May 2013 - 04:37 AM

I was never a big fan of the Tea Party movement, but I respected their voice and admired their courage, even if they seemed to interfere with the government's ability to get things done. That's less government by proxy, after all.

The problem with the IRS that will never go away is that no matter what law you write, there will always be the temptation to use it as a political weapon of choice.

We will never be truly healthy as a nation, so long as our own immune system is attacking U.S. Every few years we have some new treatments, everyone's hair falls out, and we go back into remission, but the odd deformity remains inside U.S.

The conservative right has very few friends at this point, so they're looking for anything to make love with the American people again. However, the enemy of my enemy is my friend; ploy, won't work for long. We already know it's an autoimmune disorder.

I expect that there's enough dirt under that rug to bury the IRS, but you'll need a far better physician than currently in place. It will take far more than denials of non-profit status too, because that's just a symptom, not the cause. If you aren't careful, you'll damage the surrounding tissue, and that includes the Presidency.

Obama is not like Nixon, and drawing this comparison is foolish and misleading. I'm old enough to remember Nixon. He was a good gambler with a bad poker face.

The conservative talking heads could do U.S. a favor, by pretending for a moment that they care for the country instead of the ripe and flavorful story.

We all need a party right now. Surely that's something the left and the right can agree on, because if not this, then what?

Edited by Raptor Witness, 30 May 2013 - 05:28 AM.

Posted Image "Make Manifest Destiny a memory ..." 12-7-2011  "When the earth is displaced fully three times at the point of destiny ..." 10-29-2013

#11    Bama13

Bama13

    Poltergeist

  • Member
  • 2,232 posts
  • Joined:09 Aug 2011
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Just Southeast of God's country

Posted 30 May 2013 - 01:33 PM

View PostThe world needs you, on 29 May 2013 - 09:08 PM, said:

Oliver North did.

And it was wrong to allow him to. Just as it is wrong to allow Lerner. Now that we have your partisan shot out of the way, do you have a opinion on this topic?

" Mighty little force is needed to control a man whose mind has been hoodwinked; contrariwise, no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything —you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him" - Robert Heinlein

#12    Kowalski

Kowalski

    The Original Penguin Conspiracy Theorist

  • Member
  • 4,102 posts
  • Joined:14 Mar 2013
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:* Madgascar *

  • It's All Some Kind Of Wacked Out Conspiracy....

Posted 30 May 2013 - 01:40 PM

View PostRaptor Witness, on 30 May 2013 - 04:37 AM, said:


The problem with the IRS that will never go away is that no matter what law you write, there will always be the temptation to use it as a political weapon of choice.


Which is why we shouldn't have an IRS. Institute a fair tax....


#13    ninjadude

ninjadude

    Seeker of truths

  • Member
  • 11,109 posts
  • Joined:11 Sep 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Illinois

  • "dirt collects at the interfaces"

Posted 31 May 2013 - 01:20 AM

View PostKowalski, on 30 May 2013 - 01:40 PM, said:

Which is why we shouldn't have an IRS. Institute a fair tax....

again, who would collect this tax?

"Whatever you can do or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power and magic in it. Begin it now!""
- Friedrich Nietzsche

#14    F3SS

F3SS

    Anything goes

  • Member
  • 8,131 posts
  • Joined:11 Jun 2011
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Pittsburgh, Pa

Posted 31 May 2013 - 02:20 AM

View Postninjadude, on 31 May 2013 - 01:20 AM, said:



again, who would collect this tax?

As if another government entity is out of the question. C'mon mr. Big government


#15    acidhead

acidhead

    GOV Debt Slave

  • Member
  • 11,050 posts
  • Joined:13 Feb 2007
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Victoria, BC CANADA

Posted 31 May 2013 - 03:08 AM

View PostGummug, on 29 May 2013 - 09:43 PM, said:

I am getting sick and tired and utterly fed up with the self-serving hypocrisy in government. I do believe we have still some decent people in congress (Ron Paul imo comes to mind) but I wish more people would get outraged. Richard Nixon resigned over less imo.
eta: Many of these people are public servants in name only imo...who knows what strange god they really serve, maybe the god of money. :(

Ron Paul retired from GOV bro.

"there is no wrong or right - just popular opinion"





Also tagged with lerner, irs, tea party, scandal, target

1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users