To all the skeptics out there, like me...

[Zamees]

*Note: if the pictures are too big, please let me know, and I'll just leave the URL's, but wanted to preserve the original size so you can really see these scratches she got "from a ghost".

I need help coming up with some sort of scientific explanation for this one, because right now i'm totally stumped.

Last night, me and my gf went on a ghost tour in st augustine. They brought us around telling us some stories about sightings and stuff, (this tour guide sucked by the way, the one the night before was much better). So we end our journey at the Spanish Hospital which is supposedly a certified haunted house. The lady tells us of what went on there, then about sightings and unexplained happenings such as bite marks, words scratched into peoples backs, door to the apothecary randomly opening by itself, and other odd things happened. My gf is continually taking pictures of the door that leads to the apothecary. Then at the end everyone starts leaving the room, so with about 4-5 of us left, she knocks on the door, then turns around and screams, "Ow", we get outside the room into the light, and shes got 3 scratches on her back.

http://www.xboxlivegamernetwork.com/scratch1.jpg

http://www.xboxlivegamernetwork.com/scratch2.jpg

http://www.xboxlivegamernetwork.com/scratch3.jpg

http://www.xboxlivegamernetwork.com/scratch4.jpg

Now i'm a skeptic, and i just write all ghosts off as not real. Someone sees something, its their imagination, or the earths random energy in that area causes peoples brains to all see a similar figure. Or a gust of wind makes something fly or something open. But this is real physical proof of something, its nothing the brain could create, the only person standing near her was me, and that was about 2-3 ft away.

So to all the skeptics out there, how can I scientifically explain this?

Edit: images are too big, so I have deleted them.

Edited July 9, 2006 by Lottie

[Bosanchero]

nice story no doubt, but as a skeptic place yourself in my shoes for a second, person comes on forums says they are SKEPTIC yet this is their FIRST post and i know nothing about them, so what i am just supposed to belive them,,, well i am trusty person i give them that,

than they post some pictures with scratches on someones back, and expect me to belive ghosts made it o.O "Me sorry, Me Dont Belive a Word You Said"

ok even if ghosts exist what would be the point of scratching your girlfriends back ???

all i can say is that this looks like bad try to make "Zoro" sign "Z"

[Zamees]

Right, of course its very easy to fake the stuff like this. But what I'm looking for is some sort of a scientific explanation. So first off you hafta believe she was not scratched by any physical standing item in the room, as she was near nothing, then from there, some explanation as to some large bug in the room, a very stealthy bat. I'm really looking to find an answer for myself as to what else could have caused it, as I'm not a ghost believer and not trying to prove it to the skeptics, trying to get the skeptics to prove to me, so I can remain a non-believer.

Reason its my first post is because i'm not into this stuff at all, but the gf loves it, so we went on 2 tours for her b-day. But since i've had somewhat of an encouter, I felt the need to join some forums and find out what coulda caused it.

[Bosanchero]

Right, of course its very easy to fake the stuff like this. But what I'm looking for is some sort of a scientific explanation. So first off you hafta believe she was not scratched by any physical standing item in the room, as she was near nothing, then from there, some explanation as to some large bug in the room, a very stealthy bat. I'm really looking to find an answer for myself as to what else could have caused it, as I'm not a ghost believer and not trying to prove it to the skeptics, trying to get the skeptics to prove to me, so I can remain a non-believer.

Reason its my first post is because i'm not into this stuff at all, but the gf loves it, so we went on 2 tours for her b-day. But since i've had somewhat of an encouter, I felt the need to join some forums and find out what coulda caused it.

let me ask you this since your GF is into this dont you think she could have been faking this just so that you would start beliving/ spending more time with her on ghost hunts/ and such stuff, i see it as obvious thing to do

[Carla]

Sorry dude but to be honest I don’t buy it either. The marks look like they were done with something that could scratch thee skin. Why are the marks side ways? If a ghost was clawing at your girlfriend don’t you think the marks would be vertical? Plus the marks are low so was it a midget ghosts? Another thing I don’t see how that could have happened through the fabric of her t shirt. One more thing it looks like someone just randomly scribbled on her back. There’s no patter of someone’s nails or any sort. Thanks for sharing your story though.

Edited July 9, 2006 by Carla

[Zamees]

I've been talking with Bosanchero on live chat, trying to come up with some sort of explanation. Right now i'm thinking she subconsciously did this herself. I'm going to see if I can match her hands to those spots.

But the story I tell is completely how it happened from a skeptics POV. I completely do not believe in any sort of ghosts, so I'm looking for how this could have happened with all the above I have stated as true givens and facts for my situation.

Hers a picture of the room we were in and the door she knocked on.

Edit: Image is distorting page, I have added thumbnail of image at the bottom of this post- Lottie.

But i'm beginning to believe more and more she did it herself subconsiously, unless theres another explanation. BUt whats scary is this was in a certified haunted building, by some "ghost specialists". And since i'm open to believing something and not hard headed about my ways, it makes it sorta freaky.

Edited July 9, 2006 by Lottie

[Carla]

I don’t think she did it because the marks are like a zig zag. If she was doing it to herself I think she would have just used her nails and dragged them across her back. Someone else was probably in on this with her.

[Zamees]

There definitely wasn't anyone else able to do this. But it wasn't really a zigzag mark, its 3 independent lines all starting from the right and going left, was just the way they are formed that makes it look like a backwards z. But they were probably all done at the same time in one motion. Shes very adamant that it wasn't her that scratched herself, but her solution is that it was a ghost. But I think she did it herself. She says her hand was no where near there, but that parts to hard to remember. Maybe she had an internal pain of a scratching sensation, screamed "ow", and then subconsiously scratched herself as she went to feel the pain on her back.

[rice]

if you could remember...was the scratch there before she said ow?...because..im pretty sure that you werent always in front of her when you guys were there right? you could have fallen back behind her or something...you havent noticed anything weird on her back before this event happened?

[Zamees]

Nope it surely wasn't there beforehand. You could tell in the moments after it happened it was a fresh scratch, and nothing was near her up until that point. No people, no sharp objects.

So i've come to agree with myself that it must have been a subconscious scratch, and she is sure its a ghost. The stories they told in this building were about people have human bite marks on their skin, and scratches on their backs, its documented on some websites too. So thats what made it freaky that this is a known thing to happen, and then me a non believer is in there, and it happens (she's not the type to joke or make stuff up like that, just to fool me, she seriously thinks it was caused by a ghost and shes a true believer in them). So I had to find a somewhat logical explanation, and I'll go with the subconscious for now. But it was very spooky and makes me think twice now.

[rice]

well im assuming that the presence of you being a non believer of these kinds of things attracted a spirit...a spirit that probably wants to be acknowledged...scratched the person that you are really close with..so that you would believe that there really are spirits in the house or whatever. its like...the ghost is taunting you or something like that because you are disrespecting or showing no respect in their territory for being a non believer...but if you really are a skeptic person...then you dont have to believe anything i say...but just remember...sometimes..1 or 2 opinions/explanation is better than having nothing at all..itll make your head spin and hurt trying to find the best answer

[Loaf]

I'm going to blame the person who's hand is in the 2nd pic.

Look at those nails.

GUILTY!

[Beckys_Mom]

Sorry dude but to be honest I don’t buy it either. The marks look like they were done with something that could scratch thee skin. Why are the marks side ways? If a ghost was clawing at your girlfriend don’t you think the marks would be vertical? Plus the marks are low so was it a midget ghosts? Another thing I don’t see how that could have happened through the fabric of her t shirt. One more thing it looks like someone just randomly scribbled on her back. There’s no patter of someone’s nails or any sort. Thanks for sharing your story though.

I am not much of a skeptic when it comes to the paranormal...but I too agree those pics do not say anything of a ghost....but you can get scratches through clothing...I know..I have had it many times

[Nadia B.]

Okay, when I reach around and scratch my lower back, I scratch it horizontally. I just tested it, lol. Is it possible she scratched herself (we all do it without thinking), and when she got up and her shirt moved over it or whatever, that's when she felt where the rawness was? I do this all the time. Scratch myself and don't feel the sting till the scratch rubs against something.

BTW, I went on that tour, too. We had a great time. Very fun. I was glad to be sitting against the wall in the hospital, though. *shudder* We did catch something weird on film there, too. On video.

[taldwarf]

Hi all,

I think your all possibly skeptics, because the event/any event, hasn't happened to you, as yet? I also believe its a good thing to challenge these types of things, possibly scientifically, or as best in that way, as possible.

Ok, questions.

!. What set the event off? Were you screwing around? You've given no hints as to what manifests itself in that area of the building.

2. Are there others cases of people being scratched in the/that vacinity?

3. An approximate Distance away from said room/s where possible events took place.

4. What are known of the former inhabitants of the structure? i.e., Why is it said to be haunted?

Best guess? Not enough info... Best theory: possibly a child's spirit, maybe a male child, a male childs ghost. Someone who doesn't/didn't like females.

Oh, and I've never been there before either.

Bill

[~Onyx~]

2. Are there others cases of people being scratched in the/that vacinity?

That is precisely the question I would pose. If you truly do want to get to the bottom of this event your going to have to get ahold(by phone or e-mail etc.) of the people who have experienced the same phenomenon and see if there are any similarities( in the scratches themselves, the location of the scratches, the room that they were in when they got scratched...etc.) in the phenomenon that your girlfriend experienced....it's going to take some leg-work.

[Nadia B.]

Hi all,

I think your all possibly skeptics, because the event/any event, hasn't happened to you, as yet? I also believe its a good thing to challenge these types of things, possibly scientifically, or as best in that way, as possible.

Actually, you couldn't be more wrong in your first statement. But just because these things HAVE happened to me doesn't mean it happens all the time and there aren't rational explanations for most of it. So, your second statement is rather contradictory. I'm a believer, but I'm also not given to jumping to conclusions. Doing that is just as close-minded as the people that emphatically say this didn't happen and the poster is crazy, so on and so forth. Look for rationality first. If no explanations can be found, then look to the paranormal. Most times, a rational discussion will elicit an "aha!" type thought where the poster didn't think of something to begin with (too close to the situation?) and the person realizes it's not something paranormal.

[~Onyx~]

I'm a believer, but I'm also not given to jumping to conclusions.

That's a healty outlook to have. To label someone as "crazy" without even knowing them is presumptuous....but I understand the knee-jerk reaction to do so considering some of the posts and replies that I have seen here before. It's good to keep an open mind.....but what good is an open mind if one rants and raves like they possess an empty mind???

[Nadia B.]

Who's ranting and raving? I know what posts you're talking about. I typically just stay away from them. Typically.

[~Onyx~]

Who's ranting and raving? I know what posts you're talking about. I typically just stay away from them. Typically.

Another healthy way of approaching those types of things, I don't suffer fools either, lol.

Who's ranting and raving?

Your kidding...right?

[NME_locus]

Hey you 2.... Can't we get along? This is what I see happening....

[~Onyx~]

Hey you 2.... Can't we get along? This is what I see happening....

LMAO....that's good. Don't worry, no problems here....now back to the subject at hand.

[Suave Ben]

Those look like stretch marks.

[Zamees]

1) She was taking loads of pics of the door, then pushed on it, then knocked on it, and the knocking seemed to have caused it.

- The story the tour guide told us was that the door would randomly just open while people were in there. I believe it was ghost trackers that setup a video camera in this room, and it recorded the door opening then closing itself.

2) Lots of cases of scratches and other weird happenings.

- Another story she told was about the lady who walked in and said "Are there any ghosts here" she was joking as she said it, but the next day, she noticed the word Yes scratched into her back. A few other stories of beds moving into people and just weird paranormal happenings that I've come across on the web.

3) She was probably about a foot away from any physical item.

4) It was a Spanish military hospital, lots of death, and lots of limb removals.

I'm a skeptic to it all. I've never believed in ghosts or paranormal, or god, i completely believe in science and everything is just scientific, so its a tough idea to get me to understand that there are spirits. But its been running through my mind for the last week, I've been replaying the moment back through my head trying to remember precisely what happened. Its hard for me to place my gf's hand on her back at any point while we were in there. She wasn't sitting down, just standing the entire time and messing with the door.

So the approach I've taken comes something like this. Many people have supposedly had ghost experiences, sightings, physical encounters, and all sorts of encounters. Now, being that this was a very physical encounter which left marks on her back, its basically the worst (best way to make me believe) that there are some sort of spirits or something not visible to us out there. So, the mass amount of people with ghost encounters, coupled with the experience I had makes me think there most likely is something of the supernatural out there.

It definitely takes a in person experience to get ones mind thinking that its a likely situation, and I never thought anything would happen. I could have seen a full image of a ghost, and would have written it off as the brain causing these images based on some weird science of the location on this planet and causing the human brain to see this. But since there was physical remains of the encounter, it really made me start to believe.

And as you can tell, my thoughts have changed greatly since I originally posted, but its just something I've constantly been thinking over the past week, so thanks to everyone for the responses and the rest to come.

[~Onyx~]

Now, being that this was a very physical encounter which left marks on her back, its basically the worst (best way to make me believe)

If you realize this aspect.....don't think that your girlfriend does to?....just something else to think about...leave no stone unturned.

Edited July 13, 2006 by Onyxdk