Skeptic's Proof

[EmpressV]

I am curious to see if the skeptics on this forum have any proof that what we see, feel and experience doesn't exist. They are always clamoring for proof. People have been using these techniques for thousands of years, they can't all be wrong. Now it's time for the skeptics to give us supersensories some proof. Give us some hard factual proof that what we have doesn't exist.

[Tia]

Good luck on getting it Curiousity, I've been asking the same question for ages.

They're forever demanding proof, but when asked to show their own the topic suddenly changes.

[The Raven]

For some reason my post didn't get though, so I'll try again.

The truth of this matter is that neither skeptics or believers have any proof at all, other than their opinions. Because of this current and sad state, opinions are what causes all the flaming in this versus section. To create an opinion, both skeptics and believers should do much testing and studying, relying on logic and reason to create an answer for them. Never believe one or the other because of fear or desire.

If we had appropriate proof that these powers did or did not exist, then we wouldn't have to debate on something that your only proof of it is your lust for it.

Edited July 25, 2005 by The Raven

[FireFrog]

I am curious to see if the skeptics on this forum have any proof that what we see, feel and experience doesn't exist. They are always clamoring for proof. People have been using these techniques for thousands of years, they can't all be wrong. Now it's time for the skeptics to give us supersensories some proof. Give us some hard factual proof that what we have doesn't exist.

752249[/snapback]

This is a double standard.

Neither skeptics OR believers in the phenomenon have any hard proof to back up their respective belief in the phenomena (whatever that may be). The difference, however, is that psychic phenomenon defies the [current] laws of science, and as such it is the believer's job to prove the existance of the phenomenon and not the other way round.

Let it be known that I am a firm believer in psychic abilities, but I don't expect anyone else to believe in it. There is no hard evidence to suggest otherwise.

[Mr Ed]

Ahahaha what a joke.

Proof the these abilities don't exist:

1) The majority of people that claim they have them are under 16.

2) There is no proof.

3) Many of them break the laws of physics.

4) There has never been any proof and there never will be.

[Occam]

Here's as much "proof" as can possibly be given:

Through countless tests and studies, which were performed according to an objective and unbiased process called the Scientific Method (you may have heard of it if you were paying attention in science class), people have determined certain laws for the universe.

You "supersensories" have not done this. What you have seen can be explained much better by our tests and laws. Therefore, it is only rational that that is what the explanation is.

You see ghosts. We say "you are hallucinating due to adolescent onset schizophrenia." That has been tested time and time again to definately exist. Ghosts have not.

You move tress or fire with your mind. We say, "it's a windy day anyway. It's a coincidence."

And by the way, people have not been using these techniques for thousands of years. They have been performing empty religious rituals or pagan ceremonies. They don't do anything. Dancing doesn't change the weather. Burning flowers and incense doesn't make a guy fall for you. You know how sometimes they work and sometimes they don't? That's because it's coincidence when they do.

Thousands of years worth of people can be wrong, when they were all priests wielding power behind the scenes and uneducated peasant farmers jumping to conclusions.

Try this:

1. Stop bashing skeptics like you think you know better.

2. Go to college and learn how to think objectively.

Sorry to be an ass, but you didn't exactly have the most polite tone yourself kid.

[EmpressV]

Ahahaha what a joke.

Proof the these abilities don't exist:

1) The majority of people that claim they have them are under 16.

2) There is no proof.

3) Many of them break the laws of physics.

4) There has never been any proof and there never will be.

752315[/snapback]

What kind of proof is this. You have no PROOF. I am all the proof I need.

[Mr Ed]

Good for you. Keep it to yourself then.

No skeptics like it when blind believers come on, say that they can do these things and then provide no proof.

A few words come to mind, but I think many of these people are actually delusional.

[Occam]

Ahahaha what a joke.

Proof the these abilities don't exist:

1) The majority of people that claim they have them are under 16.

2) There is no proof.

3) Many of them break the laws of physics.

4) There has never been any proof and there never will be.

752315[/snapback]

What kind of proof is this. You have no PROOF. I am all the proof I need.

752327[/snapback]

No you're not.

The kind of proof he has is that he is using ideas that have been TESTED time and time again, and have PROVEN to work.

Have your abilities?

Read a freaking science book. You know, that was written by people that have devoted their whole lives to studying how the world works.

I might as well ask, where's YOUR proof Smarty?

[FireFrog]

Ahahaha what a joke.

Proof the these abilities don't exist:

1) The majority of people that claim they have them are under 16.

2) There is no proof.

3) Many of them break the laws of physics.

4) There has never been any proof and there never will be.

752315[/snapback]

1) What does age have to do with anything? You can't generalise an entire age group because you think they're too immature to distinguish between reality and fantasy. Perhaps some have these abilities and some don't. You have no proof otherwise.

2) There was once no 'proof' that the earth was round - in fact, the idea was regarded as laughable. What's your point?

3) The laws of physics are not indeffinant - we continue to change and rewrite theories and laws of physics as we discover more. We still don't know exactly how light and energy work entirely - who's to say that psychic phenomenon is impossible

4) See number 2.

What kind of proof is this. You have no PROOF. I am all the proof I need.

752327[/snapback]

If that's true then why did you start this topic? Why don't you PROVE it to us? Where's your evidence?

I like playing both sides of the argument

[Mr Ed]

1) What does age have to do with anything? You can't generalise an entire age group because you think they're too immature to distinguish between reality and fantasy. Perhaps some have these abilities and some don't. You have no proof otherwise.

Actually age is a brilliant factor.

Most of these believers are kids. They want to believe and are so open minded that they do. They say they can control the wind and fire etc.

The fact that most of them are kids really says something.

I am a kid myself btw.

2) There was once no 'proof' that the earth was round - in fact, the idea was regarded as laughable. What's your point?

There has always been proof that the earth is round. Don't be silly.

My point is that there is no proof yet so many people say that they can perform these abilities.

Therefore it is obvious that none of them can or at least one person would have stepped up by now.

I like playing both sides of the argument 

You might want to stick to one and argue well...

[EmpressV]

I'm sorry to disappoint you Occam, but your not dealing with some stupid kid here. I am in my middle 40's and have experienced a lot more of life than alot of people here. The only reason I posted this question to you is to see if you know it alls had anything pertinant to say. But I can see it's just the same old nonsense. To reply to your statement about how many years we have used these techniques, Yes it has been thousands of years. Some of the techniques were used as religious rituals and some were not. Religion actually made it difficult to practice the skills but none the less they remain some of the greatest powers of the human mind and body. Not everything can be debunked by science.

[Mr Ed]

But I can see it's just the same old nonsense.

Aha same old nonsense! I was thinking the exact same thing about your argument.

Same old nonsense= I have powers, but I don't have any proof. Proof is in books. No it isn't.

Nonsense to believe that 14 year old kids can control fire with their minds without any proof, or nonsense to want to see proof first?

Hmm I wonder.

[FireFrog]

Actually age is a brilliant factor.

Most of these believers are kids. They want to believe and are so open minded that they do. They say they can control the wind and fire etc.

The fact that most of them are kids really says something.

I am a kid myself btw.

Obviously there are those lunatics that claim to be able to control the various elements of earth, but you are still generalising an entire age group because of a few experience. Yes, agreed there has been no evidence to suggest otherwise to date, but you can't talk in absolutes like that.

There has always been proof that the earth is round. Don't be silly.

My point is that there is no proof yet so many people say that they can perform these abilities.Therefore it is obvious that none of them can or at least one person would have stepped up by now.

Obviously there has been proof the earth was round. Note the use of inverted comma's. At the time, there was no way to prove the earth was round, it was a stupid notion. Likewise, with metaphysics and psychic phenomenon, who's to say that there is no proof? There is just none readily available.

You can't base your entire argument on a selective few who claim to have these abilities (particularly, I might add, on these forums).

You might want to stick to one and argue well...

Likewise. I don't see you making an all too compelling argument yourself... didn't notice you countering my other points while you were at it.

The problem here is that we have two extremes. A skeptic and a believer who do not seem to want to listen to the other persons side of the argument. I'm just providing an intermedium between the two.

[EmpressV]

But I can see it's just the same old nonsense.

Aha same old nonsense! I was thinking the exact same thing about your argument.

Same old nonsense= I have powers, but I don't have any proof. Proof is in books. No it isn't.

Nonsense to believe that 14 year old kids can control fire with their minds without any proof, or nonsense to want to see proof first?

Hmm I wonder.

752358[/snapback]

As I have suggested to you previously, give our techniques a try for yourself. Then you will have a leg to stand on. Otherwise, stop making yourself appear childish and uneducated. Some books are written as guides to help strenghthen our innate powers. They do work for those who believe. You really need to look for the material in the nonfiction section of your library. A library is a place to find books you can learn from. Harry Potter is fantasy and entertainment so you won't find the answers there.

[Mr Ed]

Likewise. I don't see you making an all too compelling argument yourself... didn't notice you countering my other points while you were at it.

I found your other points to be negligible.

There is no point in me making a full blown intellectual argument for my case here.

The answer is so simple.

There is no proof. There are no abilities.

[Rhomphaia]

I do believe in these sorts of things, but as I stated in another thread, they are not nearly as common as some on these boards would like to believe.

To all you believers out there, I do have some disappointing news. The skeptics do not need to provide proof that these abilities are not real. The scientific community supports them in their claims that these abilities do not exist (as least as far as modern science can understand them).

The burden of proof is on YOU. You need to prove to the skeptics and scientists that this is real. You need to prove it as solidly as you can prove that if you drop a ball that it will hit the ground. It's all on you do prove it.

[FireFrog]

I'm sorry to disappoint you Occam, but your not dealing with some stupid kid here. I am in my middle 40's and have experienced a lot more of life than alot of people here.

Don't make generalisations like that unless you're prepared to back it up.

To reply to your statement about how many years we have used these techniques, Yes it has been thousands of years. Some of the techniques were used as religious rituals and some were not. Religion actually made it difficult to practice the skills but none the less they remain some of the greatest powers of the human mind and body. Not everything can be debunked by science.

You continue to make reference to what you apparently know as fact and that it is written in many texts. How about providing some sources? Quoting texts? Providing something more than just old books? The Bible is regarded as non fiction, but that doesn't make the story of Adam and Eve any less ludicrous.

[Mr Ed]

But I can see it's just the same old nonsense.

Aha same old nonsense! I was thinking the exact same thing about your argument.

Same old nonsense= I have powers, but I don't have any proof. Proof is in books. No it isn't.

Nonsense to believe that 14 year old kids can control fire with their minds without any proof, or nonsense to want to see proof first?

Hmm I wonder.

752358[/snapback]

As I have suggested to you previously, give our techniques a try for yourself. Then you will have a leg to stand on. Otherwise, stop making yourself appear childish and uneducated. Some books are written as guides to help strenghthen our innate powers. They do work for those who believe. You really need to look for the material in the nonfiction section of your library. A library is a place to find books you can learn from. Harry Potter is fantasy and entertainment so you won't find the answers there.

752368[/snapback]

Me appearing uneducated.

I will be brutally honest here.

You are portraying yourself as uneducated and metaphorically blind.

You have no leg to stand on. You have no proof. No proof=no abilities.

Simple as that.

Hey I can do simple math, lucky I am a kid huh?

My local library only has non fictional books in the non fiction section.

I never implied or suggested that Harry Potter had the answers.

However I think most of the believers on this site have been reading too much Harry Potter.

Maybe they should read the Bible, that is actually more believable.

[Mr Ed]

Exatly Rhom. We don't need to provide proof.

We have science backing us.

They have gullibility backing them.

[EmpressV]

I do believe in these sorts of things, but as I stated in another thread, they are not nearly as common as some on these boards would like to believe.

To all you believers out there, I do have some disappointing news. The skeptics do not need to provide proof that these abilities are not real. The scientific community supports them in their claims that these abilities do not exist (as least as far as modern science can understand them).

The burden of proof is on YOU. You need to prove to the skeptics and scientists that this is real. You need to prove it as solidly as you can prove that if you drop a ball that it will hit the ground. It's all on you do prove it.

752370[/snapback]

No actually we don't need proof, you do. We already know it works. Science is still a work in progress, ever evolving and ever changing.

[nick_fury]

Proof that these abilities don't exist?

Look no further than my thread asking people with 'powers' for proof. Dozens of you claim to have them, yet not one of you could provide a video or image of you demonstrating them.

The fact that believers can't provide such a simple thing is more than enough proof for me

[Mr Ed]

If you already know it works then why the hell are you here?

This forum is try and persuade people to either become a skeptic or believer, and/or to match our arguments.

There is absolutely no point whatsoever in you coming into this forum if you say that 'we don't need proof, I know that I can do it'.

That is a completely useless piece of information as we will not take your word for it and it is not an argument.

[EmpressV]

I'm sorry to disappoint you Occam, but your not dealing with some stupid kid here. I am in my middle 40's and have experienced a lot more of life than alot of people here.

Don't make generalisations like that unless you're prepared to back it up.

To reply to your statement about how many years we have used these techniques, Yes it has been thousands of years. Some of the techniques were used as religious rituals and some were not. Religion actually made it difficult to practice the skills but none the less they remain some of the greatest powers of the human mind and body. Not everything can be debunked by science.

You continue to make reference to what you apparently know as fact and that it is written in many texts. How about providing some sources? Quoting texts? Providing something more than just old books? The Bible is regarded as non fiction, but that doesn't make the story of Adam and Eve any less ludicrous.

752371[/snapback]

The bible is not reguarded as non fiction. It is absolutly fiction.

[nick_fury]

The bible is not reguarded as non fiction. It is absolutly fiction.

752386[/snapback]

I know a few billion people who might beg to differ on that