4027 replies to this topic

[Apol]

Abramelin, on 28 February 2013 - 04:18 PM, said:

A bit more info about the original name of Münster, Mimigernaford/Mimigardeford :



Teutonic Mythology Vol. 4 - Jacob W. Grimm

http://books.google....n -ebay&f=false

I have found this book on the Internet:

http://epub.uni-rege...br12363_ocr.pdf


Heinrich Tiefenbach: Mimigernaford-Mimigardeford – Die ursprünglichen Namen der Stadt Münster, in the journal Beiträge sur Namenforschung, Vol. 19, 1984
(Universitätsverlag Carl Winter, Heidelberg; ISSN: 0005-8114)

[Abramelin]

Apol, on 02 March 2013 - 06:07 AM, said:

I have found this book on the Internet:

http://epub.uni-rege...br12363_ocr.pdf


Heinrich Tiefenbach: Mimigernaford-Mimigardeford – Die ursprünglichen Namen der Stadt Münster, in the journal Beiträge sur Namenforschung, Vol. 19, 1984
(Universitätsverlag Carl Winter, Heidelberg; ISSN: 0005-8114)

I have found that one too, but my computer doesn't seem to like it much...

[Knul]

Knul, on 01 March 2013 - 08:45 PM, said:

Let us have a look at the OLB text once more. The author mentions five reeves (grêvetmanna), three of them are former sêkeningar (sea-kings), two of them were former hermana (hêrtoga) (commanders).  The logic of this is, that the sea-kings come from areas adjacent to the sea and the commanders come from inland areas.

The sea-kings are:

1.    Apol – Astflyland and Oviralindawrda + Ljvdgarda [Leeuwarden], Lindahem [Wolvega] and Stavja [Stavoren] = modern Friesland.

2.    Enoch – Westflyland and Texland + Waraburch, Medeasblik and Forana = modern West-Friesland

3.    Foppo – Sjugun êlânda. = modern Zeeland

The inland-kings are:

4.    Storo (Saxman) – Haga Fenna and Walda + Buda, Mannagardaforda (later in the book it is said to be a mistake for Mannagardawrda). = Overijssel, Drente, Achterhoek (Dutch Saxonian area)

5.    Abelo – Suderflylanda + Aken, Ljvdburg and Katsburg = must be modern Zuid-Holland (South-Holland). Though the area is adjacent to the sea  the people are no more sea-farers, because the Rhine was blocked by Dunes.


The story of the OLB deals with Astflyland and Westflyland, mainly Stavia and Medeasblik. The other areas east and south of Astflyland and Westflyland are less important.
+ indicates the main places in that area. So Ljvdgarda, Lindahem and Stavja in the area of Astflyland and Oviralindawrda, Waraburch, Medeasblik and Forana in the area of Westflyland and Texel. We know about the Domburg (Walhallagara) in Sealand. Following this line we should look for Buda and Mannagardaforda in the area of the Haga Fenna and Walda and we should look for Aken, Ljvdburg and Katsburg in the area of Syderflylanda.
So, I have to revise my views.

1. If  in Astflyland castles are mentioned in that area and if in Westflyland castles are mentioned in that area, it is reasonable to suppose that in Southflyland happened the same.

2. If in Astflyland, Westflyland and Southflyland castles are mentioned in those areas, it is reasonable to suppose that the same happened in the Haga Fenna and Walda.

3. In the Seven Islands there was only one castle (in Domburg on Wallhalagara, Walcheren).

Just a matter of logic.

[Abramelin]

Knul, on 02 March 2013 - 07:21 PM, said:

1. If  in Astflyland castles are mentioned in that area and if in Westflyland castles are mentioned in that area, it is reasonable to suppose that in Southflyland happened the same.

2. If in Astflyland, Westflyland and Southflyland castles are mentioned in those areas, it is reasonable to suppose that the same happened in the Haga Fenna and Walda.

3. In the Seven Islands there was only one castle (in Domburg on Wallhalagara, Walcheren).

Just a matter of logic.

And where is Oviralindawrda? I mean, where in the OLB?

[Abramelin]

Abramelin, on 03 March 2013 - 10:55 AM, said:

And where is Oviralindawrda? I mean, where in the OLB?

Ah, you knitted two words together into one:

Apol, Adela’s husband;

Thria iser sêkening wêsen, nw is-er grêvetman over Ast-flylând aend ovir-a Linda-wrda. Tha bvrga Ljvdgârda, Lindahêm, aend Stâvja send vnder sin hod.

Three times he had been seaking, now he is grevetman over Ast-flylând and over (or: on the other side of) the Linda-wrda. The burghs Ljvdgârda, Lindahêm, and Stâvia are under his care.

+++

EDIT:

We know there is a mansion called "Lindenoord" in Wolvega, Friesland, and Linda-wrda is always translated as "Lindenoord(en)".

Mansion Lindenoord was of the Van Haren family.

EDIT:

ov-er-a 8, o-er-e, æv-er, afries., sw. M. (n): nhd. Ufer; ne. bank (N.), shore (N.);
Hw.: vgl. ae. æfer, mnd. æver; Q.: R, W; E.: s. germ. *ofra-, *ofram, *obera-,
*oberam, st. N. (a), Ufer; s. idg. *apero-, Adj., hintere [= posterior], Pokorny 53

http://www.koeblerge...ch/afries-O.pdf

.

Edited by Abramelin, 03 March 2013 - 03:21 PM.

[Apol]

Knul, on 02 March 2013 - 07:21 PM, said:

1. If  in Astflyland castles are mentioned in that area and if in Westflyland castles are mentioned in that area, it is reasonable to suppose that in Southflyland happened the same.

2. If in Astflyland, Westflyland and Southflyland castles are mentioned in those areas, it is reasonable to suppose that the same happened in the Haga Fenna and Walda.

3. In the Seven Islands there was only one castle (in Domburg on Wallhalagara, Walcheren).

Just a matter of logic.

Yes, that is a matter of logic, and I agree of course 100% in that. But in my opinion this question remains: Where was really Hâga Fênna and Walda?

I was astonished that you're placing Lindahem in Wolvega. I looked up Wolvega in the Wikipedia, and I found this:
"Het enige buitenhuis dat nu nog in Wolvega staat, is Huize Lindenoord. Hier heeft onder andere de beroemde grietman Willem van Haren gewoond."
http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolvega
I suppose that's the basis of your theory, and it is in fact an extremely interesting observation, Knul.

Edited by Apol, 03 March 2013 - 03:24 PM.

[Knul]

Apol, on 03 March 2013 - 03:11 PM, said:

Yes, that is a matter of logic, and I agree of course 100% in that. But in my opinion this question remains: Where was really Hâga Fênna and Walda?

The Haga Fenna and Walda are on the border between the provinces Friesland and Overijssel.  The present name of the Walda is Zevenwouden (Seven Woods), the municipality is in Heerenveen (Fenna means Venen, in English bogs)  It is the same area where the river Linde flows, from which the name Ovira Linda may have been derived.  Ovira Linda means on the other side of the river Linde. The river Linda is a veenrivier (the water is coming out of the blogs).There exists a town Hoogeveen (Haga Fenna) east under Groningen as well.

http://www.staatsbos...ese Wouden.aspx

Here you sea the combination of Fenna (in front) and Walda (back). The photograph has been taken in the area Haga Fenna and Walda. However I have not yet located the places Buda and Mannagardaforda in that area, but that will come.

Edited by Knul, 03 March 2013 - 04:01 PM.

[Knul]

Knul, on 03 March 2013 - 03:39 PM, said:

The Haga Fenna and Walda are on the border between the provinces Friesland and Overijssel.  The present name of the Walda is Zevenwouden (Seven Woods), the municipality is in Heerenveen (Fenna means Venen, in English bogs)  It is the same area where the river Linde flows, from which the name Ovira Linda may have been derived.  Ovira Linda means on the other side of the river Linde. The river Linda is a veenrivier (the water is coming out of the blogs).There exists a town Hoogeveen (Haga Fenna) east under Groningen as well.

http://www.staatsbos...ese Wouden.aspx

Here you sea the combination of Fenna (in front) and Walda (back). The photograph has been taken in the area Haga Fenna and Walda. However I have not yet located the places Buda and Mannagardaforda in that area, but that will come.

I found two old castles in that area, mentioned Kuinre I and Kuinre II. I don't know, if they have something to do with Buda and Mannagardaforda. s. http://www.absolutef...hten-kuinre.htm. The site is in Dutch, but you may use your Google translator.

[Abramelin]

Mannagardaforfa = Münster. Old name for Münster is Mimigernaford/Mimegardeford

Katsburch/Kattaburch = Kassel (Germany). Old name for Kassel is Castellum Cattorum, a castle of the Chatti. And we all know by now that castle = burgh (EN)/burch (OLB)/burg-t (DU) are the same (and the last 3 pronounced the same).

Fon sin êrosta wif hêder twên sviaringa bihalda, thêr sêr klok wêron. Hetto, that is hête, thene jongste skikt er as senda boda nêi Kattaburch thaet djap inna Saxanamarka lêid.

Of his first wife he still had two brothers-in-law, who were very daring. Hetto—that is, heat—the youngest, he sent as messenger to Kattaburgt, which lies far in the Saxsenmarken.


But it's in Germany, 'so' it must be wrong....

Edited by Abramelin, 03 March 2013 - 05:43 PM.

[Abramelin]

If we let religious, politically correct, historic, and nationalistic sentiments get in the way, we will never find out about the truth of it all.

Grow up, and grow some balls.


.

Edited by Abramelin, 03 March 2013 - 06:14 PM.

[NO-ID-EA]

How about its Buda Ruska in the Gmina Krasnopol district of Poland ?.. according to the book i am reading Poland  (A-polonia ?) was heavily populated by both Rus and Magians

[Abramelin]

NO-ID-EA, on 03 March 2013 - 06:21 PM, said:

How about its Buda Ruska in the Gmina Krasnopol district of Poland ?.. according to the book i am reading Poland  (A-polonia ?) was heavily populated by both Rus and Magians

Well, quote from the book, please.

And give us a title.

[NO-ID-EA]

Sorry i have read over 120 pages of it today, and could not find it quickly ......but after the info on  Poland and many Rus, Magi, Saxons being there i just asked wiki for a Buda in Poland.

i have been making 2 +2 =5 again ,re Russia it says a 13th C Icelandic tract says "The Magon (Makon ) ruled over large parts of Swithiod ( meaning Greater Scythia) but Madia (Media) ruled over Kylfingla-land, which we (icelanders) call Gardarika meaning "land of enclosures ", some also call it land of forts.......what would this make it (Gardaforta  ?as in managardaforda  maybe ?)........ garda is the same as russian   -grad and gorod , as in Novgorod

How about this to ponder which i noticed , before Russia it was called Swithiod,.....of Rus.........Swi..Thiod-o-rus ....Theodorus ?


i am afraid copy / paste means nothing to me . i left the link to the book for you on the other forum , if you could transfer it herei would be obliged.....the title makes you want to ignore it ! but i am really glad i didn't

[Abramelin]

Could you please post the title of the book you are reading?


++++

EDIT:

Sorry, I didn't read this:

"i left the link to the book for you on the other forum , if you could transfer it herei would be obliged.....the title makes you want to ignore it ! but i am really glad i didn't"

OK, I will look it up on the Historum site.

++++

EDIT:

Got it:

"The True History of Wizards and Witches - The Early Years."

By John Smith - 2004

http://www.archive.o...age/n3/mode/2up

Hmmm...


.

Edited by Abramelin, 04 March 2013 - 12:44 AM.

[NO-ID-EA]

Dont knock it before you have read it .... thats exactly what i thought at first  , ........... now i am thinking did the Rus ,conquer the medes , and inter breed with a nation of God/Kings  who believed they had the right to appoint kings over each nation of the world , becoming therefore God/Kings themselves , hence why they were asked to go and take the head in Russia , when it was formed by conquest ?you Scans were about the very last in Europe to convert from Paganism .

Think about some of the names used for Persia ( far-sea )........ Rus (are they the same Rus , as the Scans ) ......Sassanids ( sassans or saxons ? ) and surely this cant be , but how about P(of) Arthians , surely not a tribe called Arther , and not just a king ???............if all us North Westerners were of the same ethnicity , perhaps we all went to war together a very long time ago , ........starts to make you wonder about the European mummies in China with long red hair , beards and wearing tartan dress.and question other names like Dardania (Tartan-ia )

didnt the Puzzler have a thread asking if the Achaeans were Persians , that book about Troy being in Britain , probably not but maybe lots of North West tribes involved.....Lots of food for thought .

Edited by NO-ID-EA, 04 March 2013 - 04:49 PM.