if the universe is really expanding then...

[bassai26]

what is it beyond those expansion area of the universe?void?expanding through it and make it its own?

[sepulchrave]

what is it beyond those expansion area of the universe?void?expanding through it and make it its own?

That is a poorly-formed question.

The Universe isn't necessarily expanding into anything.

IF the Universe is some (n-1)-dimensional surface of an n-dimensional volume, and IF the metric expansion of space is equivalent to an increase in the area of that (n-1)-dimensional surface, and IF the increase in the area of that (n-1)-dimensional does not imply an increase in the n-dimensional curvature of that surface, THEN that question is appropriate.

However there is no indication that any one of the requirements listed above holds.

[The Word of Thoth]

That is a poorly-formed question.

The Universe isn't necessarily expanding into anything.

IF the Universe is some (n-1)-dimensional surface of an n-dimensional volume, and IF the metric expansion of space is equivalent to an increase in the area of that (n-1)-dimensional surface, and IF the increase in the area of that (n-1)-dimensional does not imply an increase in the n-dimensional curvature of that surface, THEN that question is appropriate.

However there is no indication that any one of the requirements listed above holds.

sooo...... you dont know then.....?

[bassai26]

[StarMountainKid]

A way of picturing this question I use for myself is:

From our perspective here on earth, when we look out into the universe we see galaxies moving away from us as the universe is expanding around us, but we do not see an "edge" or boundry of this expansion.

From every location in the universe that we might look out from into the universe, we will see the same thing, galaxies moving away from us as the universe expands, but we do not see an "edge" or boundary of the expansion.

If we can never see an "edge" or boundry of the expansion, we cannot say the universe is expanding into anything, we can only say the universe is expanding. From these observations from every perspective, the question itself of what the universe is expanding into therefore becomes in this sense meaningless.

All this is just my explination, and if you've ever read any of my other posts around here, you may know what this one is worth.

[Bendy Demon]

If the universe encompasses everything and is endless then there is no expanding.

Perhaps we think it is because a portion of our galaxy is moving at a different rate than other parts.

I am no scientist so I cannot deliver complex formulas but all I can say is that even as a child when I heard of this "Big Bang" theory I immediately thought it was ridiculous.

We seem to like this idea that we are at the center of the known universe and our current theories clearly reflect this self centered view.

[ReaperS_ParadoX]

What if its just expanding into the nothingness, Nothingness is a hard concept for some people to think of though

[sepulchrave]

sooo...... you dont know then.....?

Well obviously I don't, nobody does.

My point was that ``the expansion of space'' is a short form for ``the metric expansion of space''.

The metric - the means by which we measure the distance between to points - seems to show that all points in space are gradually getting more and more distant from each other, in all directions.

This does not necessarily mean that, from an external perspective (assuming it such a thing is possible), the Universe is getting ``bigger''.

In fact, we only say that ``space is expanding'' because that is easier and simpler than saying ``matter is getting smaller and the speed of light is getting slower''.

[cormac mac airt]

Well obviously I don't, nobody does.

My point was that ``the expansion of space'' is a short form for ``the metric expansion of space''.

The metric - the means by which we measure the distance between to points - seems to show that all points in space are gradually getting more and more distant from each other, in all directions.

This does not necessarily mean that,from an external perspective (assuming it such a thing is possible), the Universe is getting ``bigger''.

In fact, we only say that ``space is expanding'' because that is easier and simpler than saying ``matter is getting smaller and the speed of light is getting slower''.

Just want to add that it doesn't preclude the idea either since we will likely never know what's on "the other side" of the Big Bang. At least it's not precluded by Brane Theory/M-Theory AFAIK.

cormac

[RockShaman]

This does not necessarily mean that, from an external perspective (assuming it such a thing is possible), the Universe is getting ``bigger''.

In fact, we only say that ``space is expanding'' because that is easier and simpler than saying ``matter is getting smaller and the speed of light is getting slower''.

I think I just sprained a brain cell .

*wanders off to consider this*... smaller....slower.... hmm....

[Aggie]

I always thought the universe was 'stretching', not 'expanding'.

[RockShaman]

I always thought the universe was 'stretching', not 'expanding'.

Well, totally. My jeans' waist band is the very same! *reaches over to crank the Aerosmith on the player*

[sepulchrave]

Just want to add that it doesn't preclude the idea either since we will likely never know what's on "the other side" of the Big Bang. At least it's not precluded by Brane Theory/M-Theory AFAIK.

cormac

Yes, I completely agree.

[The Word of Thoth]

Well obviously I don't, nobody does.

My point was that ``the expansion of space'' is a short form for ``the metric expansion of space''.

The metric - the means by which we measure the distance between to points - seems to show that all points in space are gradually getting more and more distant from each other, in all directions.

This does not necessarily mean that, from an external perspective (assuming it such a thing is possible), the Universe is getting ``bigger''.

In fact, we only say that ``space is expanding'' because that is easier and simpler than saying ``matter is getting smaller and the speed of light is getting slower''.

lol

what about a donut shaped universe theory? continuously expanding and expanding but within a finite space?

[woopypooky]

nothing and something is actually the samething.

[The Word of Thoth]

nothing and something is actually the samething.

FINALLY........ Someone who has reached the pinnacle of Enlightenment

[Nembus]

White holes should add additional matter to an expanding space of a certain universe.

[bison]

what is it beyond those expansion area of the universe?void?expanding through it and make it its own?

Space itself is said to be expanding. Our universe is made up of not just matter and energy, but the space these occupy. Before the expansion of the universe, there was no space for it to expand into, from our perspective of three spatial dimensions, plus time.

[bassai26]

Space itself is said to be expanding. Our universe is made up of not just matter and energy, but the space these occupy. Before the expansion of the universe, there was no space for it to expand into, from our perspective of three spatial dimensions, plus time.

how could something expand without space to occupy in the first place?which means the universe forces itself to expand then eventually breaks the spatial dimensions,

[bison]

how could something expand without space to occupy in the first place?which means the universe forces itself to expand then eventually breaks the spatial dimensions,

Our universe is believed to have produced its own space as it expanded. There was apparently no need for pre-existing space into which it could expand. The universe is viewed as a self-contained system.It appears that one can not reach it's edge by traveling outward in space. It seems that there is no edge, as the term is usually understood, and nothing that is normally understood as space, beyond the universe' most distant point. The universe is currently understood to be made of four dimensional space time. If one tried to reach the edge of the universe, and could continue out into space long enough, they would return to the point at which they started.

[Parsec]

Our universe is believed to have produced its own space as it expanded. There was apparently no need for pre-existing space into which it could expand. The universe is viewed as a self-contained system.It appears that one can not reach it's edge by traveling outward in space. It seems that there is no edge, as the term is usually understood, and nothing that is normally understood as space, beyond the universe' most distant point. The universe is currently understood to be made of four dimensional space time. If one tried to reach the edge of the universe, and could continue out into space long enough, they would return to the point at which they started.

Yeah, but much older

I'm not an expert, but are you sure about your last sentence? Maybe if someone tried to reach the edge, he would never reach it, because his solely presence would put the edge further, since he would add matter/energy/time in that point, thus pushing the edge always further. He would literally push the universe ahead

[StarMountainKid]

If dark energy is a property of space that exerts a negative pressure or repulsive force on space itself, then does this force become diffused as space expands? Perhaps as the universe expands, eventually dark energy will become so diluted that the expansion will slow to the point that gravity will become stronger than dark energy, and will begin a contraction the universe.

But as the universe contracts, a point will occur when the density of dark energy is sufficient to begin another expansion cycle. Eventually, the forces of dark energy and gravity will reach equilibrium, and the universe will remain stable in size.

I wonder how far in the future this might happen, if it would happen at all.

[bison]

Yeah, but much older

I'm not an expert, but are you sure about your last sentence? Maybe if someone tried to reach the edge, he would never reach it, because his solely presence would put the edge further, since he would add matter/energy/time in that point, thus pushing the edge always further. He would literally push the universe ahead

None of this is certain, its merely the most probable explanation, based on what we know. One would never come any nearer the edge of the universe, than they were at the start of their journey, no matter how long they traveled. One can not reach an edge of the Earth because its surface is a sphere. Similarly, the universe is held to be curved in four dimensions, which would prevent us leaving its curved domain, or reaching, or even approaching, an edge. Edited August 16, 2013 by bison

[bassai26]

If the universe said to be created by the big bang then it is possible to reach its edge because of the expansion- i think it has some expansion speed though it could've been millions of light years away, but which one is faster the expansion of the universe or the advancement of mankind?

[Shiloh17]

Here's an idea of what's out there: The Hubble ultra deep field picture.

Located southwest of Orion in the southern-hemisphere constellation Fornax, the image is a bit over 3 arcminutes across.^[2]

This is just one-tenth of the diameter of the full Moon as viewed from Earth, smaller than a 1 mm by 1 mm square of paper held at 1 meter away,

and equal to roughly one thirteen-millionth of the total area of the sky. The image is oriented so that the upper left corner points toward north (−46.4°)

on the celestial sphere

One picture estimated at one thirteen-millionth of the sky contained over 10,000 galaxies.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubble_Ultra-Deep_Field