83 replies to this topic

[HerNibs]

questionmark, on 09 January 2013 - 01:58 PM, said:

If you are convinced that the only purpose of the government is to come get you, you do your best to not register anything and the complain about the government when you are fined.

What I don't understand is: How can anybody be so big on himself to be convinced that the government's only purpose is to get him.

Gah, so many people create (usually in their heads) their own problems and blame the results on the gummit.

Nibs

[RavenHawk]

questionmark, on 09 January 2013 - 01:58 PM, said:

What I don't understand is: How can anybody be so big on himself to be convinced that the government's only purpose is to get him.

I don’t think it is perceived to be personal but ultimately, isn’t that the only real purpose of government?

[questionmark]

RavenHawk, on 09 January 2013 - 02:15 PM, said:

I don't think it is perceived to be personal but ultimately, isn't that the only real purpose of government?

as long as it gets chosen by majority, certainly not.

[Babe Ruth]

HerNibs, on 09 January 2013 - 01:54 PM, said:

I don't understand the reluctance to register guns.  (We don't have to in Colorado but we have.)
I register my car, my income and heck, I even register my kids.

I don't think registering is a big deal at all.

Nibs

Registration is the NECESSARY precursor to any scheme of confiscation.  Registered guns give the authorities a database of where weapons can be seized.

[HerNibs]

Babe Ruth, on 09 January 2013 - 02:31 PM, said:

Registration is the NECESSARY precursor to any scheme of confiscation.  Registered guns give the authorities a database of where weapons can be seized.

Is that why we have to register our cars?

Nibs

[questionmark]

Babe Ruth, on 09 January 2013 - 02:31 PM, said:

Registration is the NECESSARY precursor to any scheme of confiscation.  Registered guns give the authorities a database of where weapons can be seized.

Even if it is, I fail to see any attempt to seize weapons. Would they want to do it it would have already been done, register or not because it is hardly a secret who has got them. All that is not known is what weapon belongs to whom or where it ends up after a legal sale. And that has to change if anything should change at all.

Besides that they want to keep one of the last successful industries in the country alive: The gun makers. You will not see any change in that. And you will keep on seeing raising levels of paranoia so people keep on buying more guns and ammunition than they can reasonable use.

[RavenHawk]

questionmark, on 09 January 2013 - 02:25 PM, said:

as long as it gets chosen by majority, certainly not.

Especially if it is chosen by a mob.  That still doesn’t limit that ultimate goal of a government.

[RavenHawk]

HerNibs, on 09 January 2013 - 02:36 PM, said:

Is that why we have to register our cars?

Not quite but that is a reason.  The main reason is to be able to track it.  A person can get into a car and disappear.  You can’t do that with a gun.  You can visually track a car from a distance but before you can track a gun, it has to be in your possession.

[questionmark]

RavenHawk, on 09 January 2013 - 03:18 PM, said:

Especially if it is chosen by a mob.  That still doesn't limit that ultimate goal of a government.

I know, I know. We are all the mob out to get you.... with a butterfly net...

[RavenHawk]

questionmark, on 09 January 2013 - 04:00 PM, said:

I know, I know. We are all the mob out to get you.... with a butterfly net...

You don’t quite get it do you?  You don’t understand the dynamics or the implications of this process.

[HerNibs]

RavenHawk, on 09 January 2013 - 03:26 PM, said:

Not quite but that is a reason.  The main reason is to be able to track it.  A person can get into a car and disappear.  You can't do that with a gun.  You can visually track a car from a distance but before you can track a gun, it has to be in your possession.

Eh, it can be pretty easy to hide a car as well...

Couldn't the reason for registration of anything be just simply responsibility?  You have your license (registration to drive) and it shows that you have learned a skill and been tested on it,  if you break the rules you are held responsible.  You own a car.  It's registered.  You get drunk and drive it through a park and then run away on foot, your registration allows responsibility to be placed.

Same with your kids, criminals, police, military, voting, etc.  It's a way to hold an individual responsible for his/her ownership and actions.

Why can't gun owners be held to at least the same?

Nibs

[questionmark]

RavenHawk, on 09 January 2013 - 04:32 PM, said:

You don't quite get it do you?  You don't understand the dynamics or the implications of this process.

Evidently I don't, but I surely know that the only thing to replace a democracy with, or mob rule as you call it, is a dictatorship. So, imperfect as it may be I will continue to try to better a democratic society with democratic means. And the only way to do that is by argumentation and the ballot box. Not with guns.

[Yamato]

HerNibs, on 09 January 2013 - 04:41 PM, said:

Eh, it can be pretty easy to hide a car as well...

Couldn't the reason for registration of anything be just simply responsibility?  You have your license (registration to drive) and it shows that you have learned a skill and been tested on it,  if you break the rules you are held responsible.  You own a car.  It's registered.  You get drunk and drive it through a park and then run away on foot, your registration allows responsibility to be placed.

Same with your kids, criminals, police, military, voting, etc.  It's a way to hold an individual responsible for his/her ownership and actions.

Why can't gun owners be held to at least the same?

Nibs

Why can't knife owners?   Who's for knife responsibility?   Once they take our guns and guns are no longer a problem, 80% of murders will be by knife and some bleeding heart statist will then show up to tell us that our knives have to go.  You'll need a Chef Card from the bureau to be able to sport a Chef's knife longer than 4" and sharper than a Ginsu, or some other such BS.

Meanwhile the military won't be held accountable for anything lest we create in our own heads that the results we get in the world come from the gummint.   The paradoxical problem we've had in this country since our founding is that the federal government is a lousy arbiter of the federal government.  That's our job, and I suggest we do it.

[questionmark]

Yamato, on 09 January 2013 - 04:52 PM, said:

Why can't knife owners?   Who's for knife responsibility?   Once they take our guns and guns are no longer a problem, 80% of murders will be by knife and some bleeding heart statist will then show up to tell us that our knives have to go.  You'll need a Chef Card from the bureau to be able to sport a Chef's knife longer than 4" and sharper than a Ginsu, or some other such BS.

Meanwhile the military won't be held accountable for anything lest we create in our own heads that the results we get in the world come from the gummint.   The paradoxical problem we've had in this country since our founding is that the federal government is a lousy arbiter of the federal government.  That's our job, and I suggest we do it.

Did you ever hear of a knife-by crime where bystanders got killed?

[Yamato]

questionmark, on 09 January 2013 - 04:55 PM, said:

Did you ever hear of a knife-by crime where bystanders got killed?

Oh so long as it's who the murderer is aiming at, we're cool.   So this is what matters today.   So this is the standard of correctness you've been struggling for all these days you're showing no respect for the rights of others.  Collateral damage.   Why don't you apply your own standard of righteousness to government while you're at it.