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"Satan" Missiles to Fight Asteroid Threats?

asteroids neo chelyabinsk planetary defense

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#1    Waspie_Dwarf

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 07:00 PM

Russian Scientist Proposes Satan Missiles to Fight Asteroid Threats


RIA Novosti said:

YEKATERINBURG, June 23 (RIA Novosti) – Russia can use Soviet-era SS-18 Satan heavy intercontinental ballistic missiles to destroy celestial bodies posing a threat to Earth, a Russian scientist said on Sunday, four months after a powerful meteor struck Russia’s Urals region.

“Carrier rockets created on the basis of intercontinental ballistic missiles like Voyevoda [the Soviet name of Satan missiles], which use standard liquid fuel based on hydrazine, are well-suited for fighting suddenly discovered small [space] objects,” said Sabit Saitgarayev, a senior researcher at the State Rocket Design Center in the city of Miass in the Chelyabinsk Region.

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#2    pallidin

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 07:49 PM

Sounds promising. Might as well use them for something.

And I could only imagine the Russian national prestige, and global commendation, if they were to successfully obliterate an incoming, potentially devistating asteroid/meteor.


#3    freetoroam

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 08:03 PM

Good, as long as they see it in time, next time!

In an ideal World a law would be passed were NO guns were allowed and all those out there destroyed, trouble is the law makers are not going to take a risk of trying to pass that without making sure they are armed first.

#4    Waspie_Dwarf

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 08:11 PM

View Postpallidin, on 25 June 2013 - 07:49 PM, said:

Sounds promising. Might as well use them for something.

And I could only imagine the Russian national prestige, and global commendation, if they were to successfully obliterate an incoming, potentially devistating asteroid/meteor.
Whilst this is a good use of such horrendous weapons, they are still only of limited use. The article says that they can be used on asteroids up to 100 metres across. That's a large lump of rock and being able to destroy it could save millions of lives, but it is still tiny by asteroid standards.

This weapon is of no use against the "mass extinction" size of asteroids, the ones we really need defence against. The meteorite that hit Earth 65 million years ago and wiped out the dinosaurs was 8Km across - 80 times larger than objects these missiles can be used on.

Our best defence is to deflect potentially harmful asteroids into a new, safe orbit.

"Space is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-boggingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the street to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to space." - The Hitch-Hikers Guide to the Galaxy - Douglas Adams 1952 - 2001

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#5    and then

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 09:01 PM

View PostWaspie_Dwarf, on 25 June 2013 - 08:11 PM, said:

Whilst this is a good use of such horrendous weapons, they are still only of limited use. The article says that they can be used on asteroids up to 100 metres across. That's a large lump of rock and being able to destroy it could save millions of lives, but it is still tiny by asteroid standards.

This weapon is of no use against the "mass extinction" size of asteroids, the ones we really need defence against. The meteorite that hit Earth 65 million years ago and wiped out the dinosaurs was 8Km across - 80 times larger than objects these missiles can be used on.

Our best defence is to deflect potentially harmful asteroids into a new, safe orbit.
Waspie could you expound a bit on the amount of force necessary to deflect something that was say, half a mile wide that was inbound for a direct hit?  Math was never a strong suit for me but if the two objects were travelling at approximately the same speed and were going to enter the exact same space at a given point in time but from opposite directions....assuming it wasn't seen far enough in advance to just nudge it out of the way?

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#6    Waspie_Dwarf

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 10:16 PM

View Postand then, on 25 June 2013 - 09:01 PM, said:

Waspie could you expound a bit on the amount of force necessary to deflect something that was say, half a mile wide that was inbound for a direct hit?  Math was never a strong suit for me but if the two objects were travelling at approximately the same speed and were going to enter the exact same space at a given point in time but from opposite directions....assuming it wasn't seen far enough in advance to just nudge it out of the way?
It would depend on the size of the object and how close it was to the Earth (and off the top of my head I'm not sure how to do the calculations either). That is why the best option is to deflect potentially harmful objects years or decades before they hit. Deflecting a huge asteroid days before it hits Earth (as in the film Armageddon) is probably not a real option. Destroying such an object is probably not an option either as it is likely to break into several large objects, peppering the Earth with multiple large impacts. This may actually be worse than a single huge impact.

"Space is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-boggingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the street to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to space." - The Hitch-Hikers Guide to the Galaxy - Douglas Adams 1952 - 2001

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#7    danielost

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 01:51 PM

If such a rock 'is less than a year out.  We cannot stop it with any of plans or tech.  There is one low tech salution that might help, but it would upset drawf if I go any further.

I am a Mormon.  If I don't use Mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
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#8    highdesert50

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 03:49 PM

I imagine multiple distant satellites and moon-based lasers could be more effective in deflecting a larger object, perhaps even into the moon as a last resort. And, the meteorite over Chelyabinsk was certainly a wake-up call to the Russians to offer their expertise.


#9    danielost

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 05:44 PM

Therock that it russia was to small to be deticted before it hit.

I am a Mormon.  If I don't use Mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other Mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the Mormon faith. Thanks for caring and if you don't peace be with you.

#10    Rhino666

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 09:43 PM

we won't last forever. we've had our chance so let nature take its course or give us all space training and get the **** out of here.i seriously doubt a tiny Russian sparkler would work anyway....why because there'd be too much squabbling over who presses the button and where it's aimed.

Edited by Rhino666, 26 June 2013 - 09:46 PM.


#11    skookum

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 11:19 PM

Sounds like a good excuse to insure they are serviced and have the budget to maintain them for the next 10 years.

Quote

“They [missiles] can stay in the condition of their readiness for launch for ten and more years, after some reequipping,” the scientist said.

I would imagine after over two decades of massive military budget cuts a good proportion of their massive arsenal of nukes need either major overhauls or complete replacement.

I am sure the military would like to get their most powerful financed and safe guarded for the next ten years at least.

They take two days to ready and fuel but would only be effective against small objects. Would we get 2-3 days notice on a small object?

Edited by skookum, 26 June 2013 - 11:28 PM.

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#12    danielost

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 01:50 AM

I thought nasa decided this was a bad idea.

I am a Mormon.  If I don't use Mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other Mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the Mormon faith. Thanks for caring and if you don't peace be with you.

#13    Shush_rules

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 07:24 AM

View PostRhino666, on 26 June 2013 - 09:43 PM, said:

we won't last forever. we've had our chance so let nature take its course or give us all space training and get the **** out of here.i seriously doubt a tiny Russian sparkler would work anyway....why because there'd be too much squabbling over who presses the button and where it's aimed.

What does that even mean?

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#14    Waspie_Dwarf

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 03:24 PM

View Postdanielost, on 26 June 2013 - 01:51 PM, said:

There is one low tech salution that might help, but it would upset drawf if I go any further.
It won't annoy me, it will just bore me pointing out all over again what a truly, monumentally idiotic idea it is. It will bore me further re-posting evidence from experts in asteroid mining (ie the companies which plan to do exactly they) which have already proved you wrong once, only to have you think you know better and ignore the evidence.

Needless top say mining an asteroid is neither low tech nor a good idea for saving the Earth.

"Space is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-boggingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the street to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to space." - The Hitch-Hikers Guide to the Galaxy - Douglas Adams 1952 - 2001

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#15    Waspie_Dwarf

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 03:26 PM

View Postdanielost, on 26 June 2013 - 05:44 PM, said:

Therock that it russia was to small to be deticted before it hit.

No it wasn't.

Such asteroids are difficult, but not impossible to detect. This one was impossible to see before impact because it approached Earth from the daylight side.

It is also impossible to be observing all of the sky, all of the time, so small objects can easily be missed.

"Space is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-boggingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the street to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to space." - The Hitch-Hikers Guide to the Galaxy - Douglas Adams 1952 - 2001

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