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Capitalism is a Cult


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#31    acidhead

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 06:28 AM

View PostLikely Guy, on 23 January 2013 - 06:22 AM, said:

I was 20 in 1982, and I wasn't old enough to understand Vitnam, what the hell do you know?

I'm a western Canadian, recently relating to, 'Silver Thong' a guy in Calgary, and 'Acidhead', a guy in Victoria, B.C. who purport to tell Americans, "How it is."

Are you guys Americans living in Canada telling other  Americans how to live, or are you just Canadians telling Americans how to live?

View PostLikely Guy, on 23 January 2013 - 05:41 AM, said:

It's the economic philosophy that, "If I pulled myself up by my own bootstraps and become a millionaire, therefore, anyone else can."

I'm not saying you did, I'm just asking if you believe.

You can. It's possible.

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#32    The Silver Thong

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 06:29 AM

View PostAsteroidX, on 23 January 2013 - 06:25 AM, said:

I question whether today's capitalism can still be called capitalism and that is has fundamentally morphed into something very different

I think it has.

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#33    acidhead

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 06:32 AM

View PostLikely Guy, on 23 January 2013 - 06:22 AM, said:

I was 20 in 1982, and I wasn't old enough to understand Vitnam, what the hell do you know?

I'm a western Canadian, recently relating to, 'Silver Thong' a guy in Calgary, and 'Acidhead', a guy in Victoria, B.C. who purport to tell Americans, "How it is."

Are you guys Americans living in Canada telling other  Americans how to live, or are you just Canadians telling Americans how to live?

Whatever....

Canada is the 51st State if you haven't noticed.  Economically we're important trading partners. Of course I have vested interest.  Not to mention that the USA is the global currency at the moment.

"there is no wrong or right - just popular opinion"

#34    Likely Guy

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 06:42 AM

View PostThe Silver Thong, on 23 January 2013 - 06:27 AM, said:




It would be called interested and willing to read about it more than the vast magority of Americans themselves not having one clue about what we speek. Sad to see Canadians concerned about the American condition as my friend as one day it will effect you.  It already has.  Or are you trying to tell me my political opinion unless Im an American counts. If thats the case the Americans better close every base around the world imposing theres.

I'm not sure what your point is. Or what the questions you now ask, were.

You said, "...willing to read about it more than the vast magority of Americans themselves not having one clue about what we speek."

Do you really think that our American cousins are becoming too liberal and daft because they voted Democrat last fall?


#35    Likely Guy

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 06:45 AM

View Postacidhead, on 23 January 2013 - 06:28 AM, said:



You can. It's possible.

So's a lottery win.


#36    Professor T

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 06:46 AM

View Postjugoso, on 23 January 2013 - 02:32 AM, said:

Capitalism is a cult. It is devoted to the ideals of privatization over the common good, profit over social needs, and control by a small group of people who defy the public's will. The tenets of the cult lead to extremes rather than to compromise. Examples are not hard to find.

1. Extremes of Income

By sitting on their growing investments, the richest five Americans made almost $7 billion each in one year. That's $3,500,000.00 per hour. The minimum wage for tipped workers is $2.13 per hour.

2. Extremes of Wealth

The combined net worth of the world's 250 richest individuals is more than the total annual living expenses of almost half the world - three billion people.

3. Extremes of Debt

Up until the 1970s U.S. households had virtually no debt. Now the total is $13 trillion, which averages out to $100,000 per American family.

4. Extremes of Health Care

A butler in black vest and tie passed the atrium waterfall and entered the $2,400 suite, where the linens were provided by the high-end bedding designer Frette of Italy and the bathroom glimmered with polished marble. Inside a senior financial executive awaited his 'concierge' doctor for private treatment.

5. Extremes of Justice

William James Rummel stole $80 with a credit card, then passed a bad check for $24, then refused to return $120 for a repair job gone bad. He got life in prison. Christopher Williams is facing over 80 years in prison for selling medical marijuana in Montana, a state which allows medical marijuana
Banking giant HSBC, whose mission statement urges employees "to act with courageous integrity" in all they do, was described by a U.S. Senate report as having "exposed the U.S. financial system to 'a wide array of money laundering, drug trafficking, and terrorist financing'" in their dealings with Mexico's Sinaloa cartel, which is considered the deadliest drug gang in the world.

HSBC received a fine equivalent to four weeks' profits. The bank's CEO said, "we are profoundly sorry."

More: http://www.commondre...view/2013/01/21

Edit: Wasn´t really sure which category to post this in and it is not specific to US and Americas

Brilliant artical.. :tu:


#37    Likely Guy

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 06:49 AM

View Postacidhead, on 23 January 2013 - 06:32 AM, said:



Whatever....

Canada is the 51st State if you haven't noticed.  Economically we're important trading partners. Of course I have vested interest.  Not to mention that the USA is the global currency at the moment.

At the moment? That's assuring.


#38    acidhead

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 06:53 AM

View PostLikely Guy, on 23 January 2013 - 06:45 AM, said:

So's a lottery win.

whatever.. if that's what you choose to believe so be it.

"there is no wrong or right - just popular opinion"

#39    Yamato

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 06:55 AM

Capitalism is sound money, hard work and capital accumulation.  Not this Creditism we have today that we're citing problems of in the OP article.   Capitalism is bankruptcy when bills ultimately can't be paid, not immoral expectations of "too big to fail" bailouts by government overseeing and encouraging (guaranteeing) the explosion of credit from $1 trillion in the 1970s to $50 trillion today.   There are so many substantive problems with that article I don't know where to begin.

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#40    MiskatonicGrad

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 07:46 AM

true capitalism in this country has been on the down slope since the 1930's and was finally killed by the Bush bailouts. the goverment does not want a capitalist economy they want to control the economy. so instead of you and me deciding who succeeds and who fails with our wallets the goverment steps in and steals our money and decides for us. "We takes yo taxes and we pays the man" of course then the man turns around and lines the pockets of the goverment. sometimes I even wonder why I have this overwhelming urge to say "BAA BAA" all the time.

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#41    Br Cornelius

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 08:10 AM

Capitalism is what it always ultimately ends up as, the state rigged fascism we have today. Its a wonderful utopian theory which has always ended in the same end point because ultimately those who are successful always have enough money to distort the outcomes to their advantage.
Capitalism wears the cloths of Liberty but ultimately always concentrates liberty into the hands of the few winners at the cost of the majority of normal people who always have their freedom restricted.

Its a game of words with the same ultimate outcomes.

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#42    Yamato

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 08:23 AM

Bush Jr. was a thoroughly despicable administration and as bad as Obama is, he's just following the same drill.   It's something Bush supporters didn't get then.  It's something that Obama supporters still don't get now.  It doesn't matter whether we like our current leader or not because we've set the table for evermore of what you've just described, from the likes of every unknown future bureaucrat we will have above us.  What's so sad about partisanship is these Obama supporters aren't going to like it when some Republican is in charge, and they think that's actually what matters.  

If anything true can be said about capitalism, this is the end of capitalism, even the semi-capitalism we once semi-practiced.   It's a new age of moral hazard, "too big to fail", punishing success and rewarding failure.  I couldn't place values on our market today if I had to.  Nothing makes sense because the government has turned common sense upside down on its head.   In the end the markets always win, but people don't seem to have any idea how unrealistic their silent expectations of endless credit are.  When our rich Asian creditors have had enough, people have no idea how hard our country's fall is going to be.

"Peace cannot be achieved by force, only by understanding."  ~ Albert Einstein
"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.  Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." ~ Mahatma Gandhi

#43    Br Cornelius

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 09:20 AM

The fundamental issue I have with Capitalism as a concept is that it is far to simplistic.
It never explicitly defines what "good" is but vaguely equates it with the accumulation of wealth. This leaves it wide open for any individual or corporation to redefine good as "what is good for me". There is no philisophical nuance about the concept of greater good or even that a good might have no financial reward but maybe only cost. At its core it is pure magical thinking which says that if you just follow these simple abstract principles all will be "good" in the end - what does that actually mean ?

It is literally impossible to define a societies conduct on the basis of so morally and ethically vague a principle.

Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius, 23 January 2013 - 09:23 AM.

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#44    Yamato

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 10:46 AM

It means that freedom is good, and more freedom is better than less freedom.   Participating in a free market means you choose what goods and services you want to buy and sell, at what prices you want to buy and sell them at, you don't have those choices made for you by magic masters who some of us believe have all the answers for everybody.   There is no magic.  There is no capitalism.   There is only freedom or the lack of it.  When you apply for a job, you are selling yourself.   So even as a "worker" which is something even a socialist can understand, you are participating in the free market so long as you can make the best choice available for yourself and not have that decision made for you.

Ebay is simple as hell, and it's not mythological.  I buy and sell there all the time, and I don't need nanny gubmint dictating to me what I do there and how I do it.  Thanks anyway.

"Peace cannot be achieved by force, only by understanding."  ~ Albert Einstein
"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.  Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." ~ Mahatma Gandhi

#45    Br Cornelius

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 10:56 AM

View PostYamato, on 23 January 2013 - 10:46 AM, said:

It means that freedom is good, and more freedom is better than less freedom.   Participating in a free market means you choose what goods and services you want to buy and sell, at what prices you want to buy and sell them at, you don't have those choices made for you by magic masters who some of us believe have all the answers for everybody.   There is no magic.  There is no capitalism.   There is only freedom or the lack of it.  When you apply for a job, you are selling yourself.   So even as a "worker" which is something even a socialist can understand, you are participating in the free market so long as you can make the best choice available for yourself and not have that decision made for you.

Ebay is simple as hell, and it's not mythological.  I buy and sell there all the time, and I don't need nanny gubmint dictating to me what I do there and how I do it.  Thanks anyway.
Which misses the point entirely - good is not just about freedom for the individual to make certain choices. The "Good" of society is a very complex concept which moves far beyond basic concepts of freedom. Always take a concept to its logical conclusion, if freedom is all there is then I am free to come to your house and shoot you. What possible logical problem could there be in that if all that existance is is freedom to make choices ?

Br Cornelius

I believe nothing, but I have my suspicions.

Robert Anton Wilson




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