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Anyone read "The 12th Planet"


Ignis_Fatuus

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Here's a few of my favorite quotes as well as signs of Marduk and Nibiru...heh, marduk.

Pages 240-245:

"Upon the Deep he marked out an orbit; Where light and darkness[merge] Is his farthest limit"

"The Heaven bespeak the glory of the Lord; The Hammered Bracelet procalims his handiwork...

He comes forth as a groom in the canopy; Like an athlete he rejoices to run the course.

From the end of heavens he eminates, And his circuit is to their end."

"The great planet:

At his appearence, dark red.

The Heavens he divides in half and stands as Nibiru"

"When the Planet of the Throne of Heaven will grow brighter, there will be floods and rains...When Nibiru attains its perigee, the gods will give peace; troubles will be cleared up, complications will be unravelled.

Rains and floods will come"

"And it shall come to pass at the End of Days:...the Lord shall judge among nations and shall rebuke many peoples.

They shall beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation"

It shall come to pass on that Day, sayeth the Lord God, that I shall cause the sun to go down at noon and I will darken the Earth in the midst of daytime"

"And it shall come to pass on that day there shall be no light-uncommonly shall it freeze.

And there shall be one day, known to the Lord, which shall be neither day nor night, when at eve-time there shall be light"

"Planet of the god Marduk:Upon its appearance, Mercury.

Rising thirty degrees of the celestial arc: Jupiter.

When standing in the place of the celestial battle: Nibiru.

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He has some fun ideas and theories, but they are just that, ideas and theories, nothing else.

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HERE'S a website I posted in an earlier discussion regarding Sitchin that does an admirable job dissecting and exposing his faulty reasoning and nonsensical claims.

Some interesting observations regarding Sitchin's 'expertise';

“Sitchin, along with Erich von Däniken and Immanuel Velikovsky, comprise the holy trinity of pseudoscientific mythmakers regarding ancient history. Each begins with the assumption that ancient myths are not myths but historical and scientific texts. Sitchin's claim to fame is announcing that he alone correctly reads ancient Sumerian clay tablets. All other scholars have misread these tablets which, according to Sitchin, reveal that gods from another planet (Niburu, which orbits our Sun every 3,600 years) arrived on Earth some 450,000 years ago and created humans by some genetic engineering with female apes. No other scientist has discovered that these descendents of gods blew themselves up with nuclear weapons some 4,000 years ago. Sitchin stands alone, on nobody's shoulders, as a scholar nonpareil. He alone can look at a Sumerian tablet and see that it depicts a man being subjected to radiation. He alone knows how to correctly translate ancient terms allowing him to discover such things as that the ancients made rockets.

Sitchin, like Velikovsky, presents himself as erudite and scholarly. Both are very knowledgeable of ancient myths and both are nearly scientifically illiterate. Like von Däniken and Velikovsky, Sitchin weaves a compelling and entertaining story out of facts, misrepresentations, fictions, speculations, misquotes and mistranslations. Each begins with their beliefs about ancient visitors from other worlds and then proceeds to fit facts and fictions to their basic hypotheses. Each is a master at ignoring inconvenient facts, making mysteries where there were none before and offering their alien hypotheses to solve the mysteries. Their works read like bad-science fiction rather than good science. Nonetheless, they are very attractive to those who love a good mystery and are ignorant of or indifferent to the nature and limitations of scientific research.

Sitchin's ideas have been appropriated by Raël, another wise man, who has started his own religion (Raëilian Religion) around the idea that we humans are the result of a DNA experiment by ancient visitors from outer space. Raël has even written a channeled book, dictated to him by extraterrestrials. It is called The Final Message. We can only hope it is.”

Secondly, it also appears that Sitchin has no viable academic credentials to support his supposed expertise in the deciphering of ancient Sumerian tablets, or even a scholarly understanding of his own (Jewish) language!

"I believe that Mr. Sitchin has done some kind of work in the ancient languages (I have never seen academic credentials in the form of degrees or transcripts), but some of the mistakes he makes are at so basic a level of language knowledge that I am uncertain if he in fact knows the languages he says he does. I'm guessing that with Hebrew, for example, Mr. Sitchin (being Jewish) can sight-read the language but doesn't understand Biblical Hebrew grammar or semantics (much like many English readers don't have a real grasp of the mechanics of English grammar). Additionally, nearly everything Mr. Sitchin discusses with respect to other languages (Akkadian and Sumerian) can be gained from numerous secondary sources - and then merely supplying one's own "word meanings" and interpretations. I have seen little that convinces me that Mr. Sitchin is a language "expert". I say this because of Mr. Sitchin's mistakes, and because he rarely interacts with scholarly articles pertaining to any linguistic material in the texts he uses. Unfortunately, there are even points he just makes up. Either (1) He doesn't know the languages he says he does; (2) He is very careless - the mistakes are obvious to someone with training in these ancient languages); or (3) He just doesn't want readers to know what's really going on in these texts. None of these options are very flattering. In short, I don't quite know what to think about why he misses so much and resorts to making things up in places."

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I certainly would not include Velikovsky in the group with Sitchin or von Däniken. While von Daniken and Velikovsky were contemporaries, that is that they wrote in approximately the same period, von Daniken was an outright sensationalist lacking the education or training for his works.

Velikovsky, however, had a sufficiently accepted reputation that he communicated with Einstein and was chastized by his peers to the point that universities told publishers that if they published Velikovsky's works the school would not purchase their textbooks.

The protest in itself spoke of Velikovsky's rank among scholars and in reading his works you have to be impressed with the quantity of references and their sometimes obscurity.

It is also wise to remember that Velikovsky's theories were formed before the space age and yet many of his cosmic prognostications have come true.

I am not saying that I accept his theories, but I will defend his qualifications to form the theories.

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Well all that may be true...wait huh.gif *all that probably is true original.gif , but I still think some references regard to Nibiru/Marduk or the North Wind having some connection with the asteroid belt.

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Well as long as you don't think there's a planet coming right at us. I've heard so much about Planet X/Niburu, and how people are trying to prove it my brain is starting to hurt. hmm.gif

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Well actually, I've been thinking that Nibiru is coming at us for the past 2 years. It all started with an article in Fortean Times(not that the Japanese stopped it, but that it's coming at us).

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In the early 1950s

Conventional science:

The temperature of Venus is balmy, perhaps max 130 degrees F

Jupiter can not emit electromagnet waves in the radio frequency

There can not be remnant magnetism on the moon

Velikovsky:

The temperature of Venus is very hot, 700 degrees F

Jupiter will be found to emit radio frequency radiation

The moon will be found to have remnant magnetism

There are a good many other predictions which Velikovsky made that conventional scientists said were wrong. So who was right? Velikovsky. The validation of theory is based largely in the ability to make accurate predictions based on that theory. Velikovsky made numerous predictions which proved to be right. I see so called theories all the time from modern theoretical physicists which can't even be validated. Velikovsky had a better batting average than conventional science. Granted, conventional scientists went far trying to suppress what Velikovsky was saying . . . many of whom hadn't even read what he did have to say.

Still waiting on a thermodynamic model of the earth's climate by which ice ages with massive glaciers could even happen as conventional scientists say. Somehow, I don't think I will live that long.

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Considering the scope and range of Velikovsky's 'predictions' it would be astonishing if he did not occasionally get something right. His basic premise may be correct, but the manner in which he came upon his conclusion is fundamentally wrong, therein lies the problem. According to him, the temperature on Venus was a result of its expulsion from Jupiter and its close approach to the sun. Venus is hot because of the greenhouse effect, something Velikovsky never mentioned. He also thought the atmosphere of Venus was hydrogen rich with hydrocarbon clouds, in 1973 it was determined that the clouds are made mainly of sulfuric acid particles.

He was also correct concerning Jupiter issuing radio emissions, but wrong as to why. He thought it was because of the electrically charged atmosphere brought on by the turbulence created by the expulsion of Venus. The radio emissions, however, are not related to the atmosphere but to "Jupiter's strong magnetic field and the ions trapped within it."

He may have 'guessed' that the Moon would have remnant magnetism, but

Velikovsky did not even accept (let alone predict) that the lunar craters are the result of impacts -- rather, he ascribed them to lava "bubbles" and to electric discharges.

So who was right? Velikovsky.

Not even in the most convoluted sense of the term. None of his 'predictions' are based on solid scientific reasoning, he wasn't even a 'scientist'.

There are just as many web sites that dispute and debunk Velikovsky as there are that support and trumpet his 'theories', HERE IS ONE that does an admirable job addressing the major points and providing off site links that cover both sides of the debate on Velikovsky.

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angry.gifangry.gifangry.gif

Sitchen can't transalte Doodly squat

he doesn't know anything about Sumerian Astrology either yet cylinder seal va243 is an astrological piece.

he translated the NORMAL representaion of the Pleides as 12 planets

At the same time every sumerian academic on earth slapped their heads and went "DUH".

Sitchens just in it for the money

last time i read one of his books i did an experiment and marked everything in red that I know he got wrong

i gave up after chapter three

I don't see why i should pay out for another marker everytime it runs out

i have also e mailed him several times pointing out politely and factually just what and why he has got something wrong

you know so far i've never received a reply.

The recent new planet was a case in point

sitchen had a disclaimer up on his website saying it wasn't nibiru very quickly

see if it did turn up he'd no longer be able to speculate on its existence and all the people that buy his books would realise they'd been conned

beaing an independant scholar of sumerian history myself i can quite confidently say that i know more about the subject than he does

he knows more about sci fi and conning people than me though

i admit that quite freely

thumbsup.gif

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I don't think you have to worry about Niburu or whatever coming anywhere close to us. As Marduk said, he just doesn't know what he's talking about. I think he takes scrabble pieces, throws them on the ground, then uses them to come up with new theories.

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Nibiru

you realise that that is one of the fifty epithets for Marduk

who is a babylonian god

Ask yourself the question why does sitchen think hes sumerian

Idiot or con man ?

w00t.gif

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I'm gonna go with a little bit of both  grin2.gif

797215[/snapback]

He's a multi millionaire and owns three lear jets

are you sure you still vote both ?

thumbsup.giftongue.gif

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Yeah I'm still going with it. Even idiots can get lucky sometimes w00t.gif

But I'd say 5% idiot, 95% con.

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I'm not saying I believe everything Sitchin writes, but I also don't believe in completely dismissing everything he has to say because some of it may be flawed.

Let's remember that people thought Capernicus was crazy too for suggesting that the earth was heliocentric.

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I believe the problem with alot of these's writer's would be they have not always stuck to the fact's therefore they have lost a great deal of creditability, with those who prefer to study the facts only. thumbsup.gif

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The "greenhouse" effect theory was what the scientists used back in the 1950's to predict the "balmy" Venus . . . a watery world with max temp of about 130 degrees F. Some prediction. Too, the atmosphere of Venus is cooler than its surfact temperature . . . so I guess science has figured how heat can be transferred from matter with cooler temperatures to matter with warmer temperatures. Of course it would be easy for Velikovsky to be right about a lot of things . . . all he had to do was disagree with astronomers on about anything they thought . . . I haven't seen where they have been right about much of anything in their predictions of what conditions would be on just about any planet or astroid before space craft got there. I see that Titan, a moon of Saturn, has them once again confounded with a "hot spot" on what they thought would be a dead cold moon. Oh well.

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Astronomers have been to science what the Keystone Kops have been to law enforcement. grin2.gif

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Astronomers have been to science what the Keystone Kops have been to law enforcement.  grin2.gif

801246[/snapback]

Are you kidding?

Our entire mathematical system was developed by atronomers.

Time, calendars, seasons, measurements, etc etc etc all came from people studying the stars.

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