95 replies to this topic

[Einsteinium]

redhen, on 18 January 2013 - 11:11 PM, said:

That's a false dichotomy.  It's possible to be concerned about both.

Yes it is possible to be concerned about both, but my point is that no matter how concerned you are if people are willing to kill and hurt other people, then logically people will keep on killing and hurting animals including fish. I never said anything about concern, my post was about how futile it is to hope that people will stop hurting and killing animals if people cannot even stop hurting and killing each other. That is just logic.

We can be concerned all we want, but unless that concern translates into change of what use is it?


-Einsteinium

Edited by Einsteinium, 21 January 2013 - 11:52 PM.

[White Unicorn]

Myles, on 21 January 2013 - 08:58 PM, said:

But they kill the plants.

Didn't you ever hear of the Buddahists that don't even eat the root or seed of plants. Weird as it may seem some don't believe in killing the plants.  

We don't have to go this far just to say other living things also feel pain one way or the other!

It is like believing  I only feel my pain so when I hurt others it doesn't matter.

[White Unicorn]

Einsteinium, on 21 January 2013 - 11:42 PM, said:

Yes it is possible to be concerned about both, but my point is that no matter how concerned you are if people are willing to kill and hurt other people, then logically people will keep on killing and hurting animals including fish. I never said anything about concern, my post was about how futile it is to hope that people will stop hurting and killing animals if people cannot even stop hurting and killing each other. That is just logic.

We can be concerned all we want, but unless that concern translates into change of what use is it?


-Einsteinium

You are so right !
But we can't give up hope to try make things better.
We each can do a small part in some way to be a good influence.
Each action can create a domino effect good or bad.
So just as we can uplift the good, we also must not tolerate even the smaller evils that we can influence.
The world is full of bounty to share if people would just grow up and be compassionate of others and all life!

[pepper-steph]

I think the late Kurt Cobain addressed this theory along time ago in Nirvanas song "Something in the way", with the line, "its ok to eat fish, as they don't have any feelings.........".
Long live Kurt!

[green_dude777]

Just something for everyone to ponder, as I keep seeing 'pain' projected onto other species the same as it is in human beings.

I will liken the brain to a computer, more specifically RAM and cache memory.  Your brain executes several processes all at once (RAM) and remembers past experiences (cache memory).

The human brain is capable of more RAM and cache memory than any other known species.  With this said, think of video game consoles (computers that were specified for game playing).  We're a current console (Xbox 360, PS3), and the fish are an atari (in reality, for comparison, they're probably closer to the original 'Pong' game).  Our current consoles are able to process more information that appeals to our sensory organs (sight, sound, and feel, thanks to rumbling in the controllers).  Right now, play an RPG and the world you are playing in is very convincing; the sights you see are incredible, the sound effects are extremely accurate, and when I get hit with a weapon from behind, I know because of the rumbling my controller does.  All of that takes a lot of processing power, more than previous consoles could produce.

In real life, pain is part of our sense of touch.  We have more RAM (processing power) than fish, so we will have a more detailed sense of pain in comparison to the fish.  So when a fish is hooked, it isn't feeling the same thing you feel when you accidentally hook your own lip.

What exactly it feels is what's being discussed, but no one should be using how it would make us feel as a comparison, as our brains are exponentially more advanced than a fish.

[Ad hoc]

green_dude777, on 22 January 2013 - 07:21 PM, said:

Just something for everyone to ponder, as I keep seeing 'pain' projected onto other species the same as it is in human beings.

I will liken the brain to a computer, more specifically RAM and cache memory.  Your brain executes several processes all at once (RAM) and remembers past experiences (cache memory).

The human brain is capable of more RAM and cache memory than any other known species.  With this said, think of video game consoles (computers that were specified for game playing).  We're a current console (Xbox 360, PS3), and the fish are an atari (in reality, for comparison, they're probably closer to the original 'Pong' game).  Our current consoles are able to process more information that appeals to our sensory organs (sight, sound, and feel, thanks to rumbling in the controllers).  Right now, play an RPG and the world you are playing in is very convincing; the sights you see are incredible, the sound effects are extremely accurate, and when I get hit with a weapon from behind, I know because of the rumbling my controller does.  All of that takes a lot of processing power, more than previous consoles could produce.

In real life, pain is part of our sense of touch.  We have more RAM (processing power) than fish, so we will have a more detailed sense of pain in comparison to the fish.  So when a fish is hooked, it isn't feeling the same thing you feel when you accidentally hook your own lip.

What exactly it feels is what's being discussed, but no one should be using how it would make us feel as a comparison, as our brains are exponentially more advanced than a fish.

yeah. Another part of that is- a huge part of the misery of pain as we know it is conscious awareness of the pain feeding back into it, which adds a horrendous layer to the experience. That kinda experience isn't possible for animals of low intelligence. And that's gotta be the #1 thing that truly sucks about being the kinda sophisticated sentient creatures we are. The possibilities for pain.

Edited by ad hoc, 27 January 2013 - 09:11 AM.