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How many alien civilizations are there ?


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#166    Crikey

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 04:39 PM

Just a thought- Perhaps alien civilisations are trying to contact us by telepathy which is instantaneous and breaks the light-speed barrier?
Furthermore perhaps humans have been picking up these alien telepathic communications for years, but the human mind is unable to process them properly.
Foe example suppose aliens broadcast this telepathic message into space "Hello, we are on another planet", and it's picked up by a human.
But instead of coming across loud and clear, it triggers hallucinations in the recipients mind and he thinks he's having a close encounter or abduction.


#167    seeder

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 06:00 PM

View PostCrikey, on 13 January 2013 - 04:39 PM, said:

Just a thought- Perhaps alien civilisations are trying to contact us by telepathy which is instantaneous and breaks the light-speed barrier?
Furthermore perhaps humans have been picking up these alien telepathic communications for years, but the human mind is unable to process them properly.
Foe example suppose aliens broadcast this telepathic message into space "Hello, we are on another planet", and it's picked up by a human.
But instead of coming across loud and clear, it triggers hallucinations in the recipients mind and he thinks he's having a close encounter or abduction.



Ah...so...."telepathy is instantaneous and breaks the light-speed barrier"

Really? How do you think you know that?

And all the while I was replying I was beaming a message to you, did you get a sudden craving for a plate of liver and bacon with mash soaked in the onion gravy?

No?

Oh ok then. You see the problem is, telepathy is science fiction, however, real science has tested it but nothing of interest or surprise was discovered. Its a non starter.  So its been relegated to the fringe once again.

Not only that, and inline with your own suggestion, if a cat could do telepathy and beam a message at you, well, you'd need to be able to understand the cats thought processes and language, which none can ever do.

Ever had moments where you get a high pitch whine in one ear? What if that was an alien signal? You wouldn't have a clue what the whine meant would you?

So, number one, telepathy is total nonsense, (for humans anyway), number 2, if it wasn't nonsense it'd need to be in a language we could understand, and I doubt any potential aliens will be speaking English on other planets.

But in line with the topic, how many civilizations would you imagine there are 'out there'?

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#168    Kludge808

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 08:37 PM

View Postpsyche101, on 11 January 2013 - 08:39 AM, said:

I bet it is. I have a Step Daughter, we have had good times, and bad times, I cannot imagine life without her, and I love her to the end of space. Not quite as special as your bond form what I have read, but I know first hand how step daughters can sure brighten one's life.
I adopted Noelle after she'd been through some terrifying times and was the first safe haven she'd ever had.  As a result, we were pretty much inseparable for the majority of the time we were together.  Even now, that bond exists despite there being 3500 miles between us.

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Heck, after this post I am going to sing off and visit her on the way home. She will get akick out of that. Second little on on the way too.
How'd it go? :-)

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That is an achievement, quite a feather in your cap, the amount of systems I have pulled out that were "future proofed" is embarrassing. I do not know why people thought heaps of cat 5 or voice grade would suffice on the future instead of new cables ??????? Most systems installed kilometres of what would eventually become only draw wires.
I had two 4-pair Cat5 cables plus a fiber pair pulled to each major workstation.  (Minor ones didn't get fiber.)  At the same time, I made sure that there was provision to pull new cable (copper or fiber) in case that became inadequate.  There was absolutely no POTS cabling anywhere.  None at all.  There were major budget battles along the way but overall I came out ahead with what I needed while conceding some points I could live without.  (Of course, I never told anyone that part. ;-) )

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LOL! Never thought of that.

So those humans think this is funny huh!!! Try this transmission HOOMAAN
Yep.  Kind of takes the idea of "Wizard War" (Ref: WW II) to a whole new level. :-D

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Have not seen Boon much this year, Bade has been flat out, always good to see the guys pop in, Bade will probably pop by at some stage soon. I think Boon has had enough of ET recently. I have to say I understand why, the latest people to get heavily involved in trying to convince us that ET is here and now have certainly dropped the bar.
Dropped it?  I think they buried it!  "I believe they exist therefore they exist," seems to be the current trend of thought.  This makes it all but a religion - maybe a cult? - which is a not good thing where skeptical inquiry is needed, even if it's by other believers who happen to believe a slightly different version.  I know Boony swore off CTs - or at least 9/11 - and I finally gave up on that particular area.

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The days of intense investigation into Generals, and WWII documents, with who was meeting who, and who invented what has been replaced with a couple who keep pushing that they cannot believe man can stack some rocks together. Ahh well, it can only be indicating better times ahead! Most of the "information" of late of pretty much bottom of the barrel stuff. Not anywhere to go from here I think but up.
Your sig says it all, we need new cases & data.  Batting around the old ones ad nauseum accomplishes nothing.  But then, the "investigators" are basically FTBs looking for proof of their beliefs.  Anything skeptics consider interesting is automatically written off as not being real.  Ah, that's the ticket.  Consider all the old cases as being of interest and they'll all go away. :-D

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Off to visit my Emmalee. Cheers mate.
I wish I could see Noelle ... *sigh* ... Hope it went well ... :-)

Cheers, old friend

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#169    badeskov

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 03:08 AM

View Postpsyche101, on 11 January 2013 - 08:39 AM, said:

<snip>

Have not seen Boon much this year, Bade has been flat out, always good to see the guys pop in, Bade will probably pop by at some stage soon.


Unfortunately I am flat out oversubscribed these day and simply have no time to engage, although I miss the debates here a lot. I do, however,  pop in every day to follow what is going on, but sadly I cannot afford the time to post very much. Hopefully in February things will turn out to the better.

Quote

I think Boon has had enough of ET recently. I have to say I understand why, the latest people to get heavily involved in trying to convince us that ET is here and now have certainly dropped the bar. The days of intense investigation into Generals, and WWII documents, with who was meeting who, and who invented what has been replaced with a couple who keep pushing that they cannot believe man can stack some rocks together. Ahh well, it can only be indicating better times ahead! Most of the "information" of late of pretty much bottom of the barrel stuff. Not anywhere to go from here I think but up.

I must admit that I miss Sky. At least he put in a good effort and truly argued for his position. And there were real data points to research and argue. Discussing stacking rocks is just...absurd. I think TV is really rotting some people's brain.

Cheers,
Badeskov

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#170    DONTEATUS

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 03:55 AM

Sky`s still on the air Badeskov`s ! Busy as always !

This is a Work in Progress!

#171    badeskov

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 06:11 AM

View PostDONTEATUS, on 14 January 2013 - 03:55 AM, said:

Sky`s still on the air Badeskov`s ! Busy as always !

I know, Big D. Too bad he is not around the UFO part of the forum :P

Cheers,
Badeskov

"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention to arrive safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming: Wow!! What a ride!". Said to to Dean Karnazes by a running buddy.

#172    Kludge808

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 06:31 AM

View Postbadeskov, on 14 January 2013 - 06:11 AM, said:

I know, Big D. Too bad he is not around the UFO part of the forum :P
Well, make it happen.  I know you can be very persuasive.  Why else would I still have the goat?

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#173    badeskov

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 06:33 AM

View PostKludge808, on 14 January 2013 - 06:31 AM, said:

Well, make it happen.  I know you can be very persuasive.  Why else would I still have the goat?

Oh boy, you still have the goat?....I...uhm..no, never mind :P

Cheers,
Badeskov

"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention to arrive safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming: Wow!! What a ride!". Said to to Dean Karnazes by a running buddy.

#174    Kludge808

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 06:55 AM

View Postbadeskov, on 14 January 2013 - 06:33 AM, said:

Oh boy, you still have the goat?....I...uhm..no, never mind :P
Oh, yeah.  If nothing else, he keeps the locals under control.  Somehow a few think those horns are for decoration. :whistle:

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#175    psyche101

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 08:33 AM

View PostLord Vetinari, on 11 January 2013 - 10:25 AM, said:

I think i differ from most* experts in the field of ufolology in that I don't really set much store by these dramatic Close Uncounters stories**; I think the most genuine UFO reports are likely to be the ones that the Skeptics*** find it easiest to dismiss, as Flairs or Ballons or, of course Secret Aircraft, simply because I think that would be the form that UFOs would be most likely to take, if they were at all likely. I don't really think that a first step would be to try to say Hello, or even less likely land in person; I think it'd be far more likely, and far more sensible, to take some time to study carefully first in a properly scientific way, and so probes or Drones would be the most sensible way.


*most other experts
** except Roswell and Rendlesham, obviously
*** who don't do their homework (I miss Skyeagle)



That would probably the best eventuality for non intelligent species, but I see as much peril as gain in hiding from a intelligent species and spying on them. Do we have that right? What we see as behind us, may actually be simply another way and very much in front of us. It might be seen as arrogant for us to decide who is intelligent enough to contact, and I see that across the board for other as well in the same situation. We are not going to be the only species in existence, and I am yet to see a good reason as to why other species must be more advanced than we. Heck, some say we say we would not even be able to recognise them, but we have the right to determine the level of a species intelligence? I see much motive for distrust, and a possibility of a tainted first contact when it is not actually first contact. In that way I do not think it is sensible to be dishonest with someone you are hoping to work out a relationship with. To my experience, honesty is the best policy if you want a thing to actually happen.

I am afraid you and I will, have to present our cases to the UN. I see your approach as possibly tainting first contact with intelligent species, as I said, our past and present does not follow this model unless a non intelligent species. Every intelligent species we just walk up and shake hands. Your model I feel could lead even to war.

I disagree on the big stories, they initially got big because some sort of incident actually did happen that got peoples attention. It might well have been military, and for the life of me, I had no idea there were so many military operations from 1940 through to 1970, did you? They seem to have had an operation for just about anything. I bet there was one for cleaning latrines. Very methodical, and I have to be impressed by the high level of organisation. Being a new era, and with "operations" heading off Willie nilly in every direction, we were bound to get some interesting tales. That does not mean some strange things did not happen.

I miss Sky, but am happy to see he is in his new niche, and comfortable. I kind of hope he does not come back, because he has become something of a legend, and Indeed I agree, he was ten times the man when it comes to the current silly debates such as how did man mange to pile rocks up. Todays "believers"** truly pale by comparison. Sky was a military man, and as such commanded respect. I sort of hope the legend lives on, as I fear he might have some trouble living up to the shoes he left. For sure, not a debater has come close to filling them. Long Live Skyeagle409.


LOL, well obviously those two re the more well now cases, but to be fair, they also should really be reclassified as fiction and not even UFO cases as such.


** With the exception of Quillius.

Edited by psyche101, 14 January 2013 - 09:02 AM.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#176    psyche101

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 08:37 AM

View PostCrikey, on 13 January 2013 - 04:39 PM, said:

Just a thought- Perhaps alien civilisations are trying to contact us by telepathy which is instantaneous and breaks the light-speed barrier?
Furthermore perhaps humans have been picking up these alien telepathic communications for years, but the human mind is unable to process them properly.
Foe example suppose aliens broadcast this telepathic message into space "Hello, we are on another planet", and it's picked up by a human.
But instead of coming across loud and clear, it triggers hallucinations in the recipients mind and he thinks he's having a close encounter or abduction.


Drugs are bad Mkay.

What makes you feel telepathy is an option? As far as I know, it is entirely a science fiction concept with no basis in reality whatsoever. Plenty of hippies to argue otherwise I realise that, but when it comes down to hard evidence, no amount of duress torture, happiness or promise has managed to make such a sense surface, nor does it exist in nature that we are aware of.

Telepathy has about as much fact behind it as does the Voyages of the USS Enterprise - great story, but it's exactly that, a story.

And I take it your are assuming that telepathy does not use some sort of "wave function" but more "spooky action at a distance" I take it?

Edited by psyche101, 14 January 2013 - 08:39 AM.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#177    psyche101

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 09:25 AM

View PostKludge808, on 13 January 2013 - 08:37 PM, said:

I adopted Noelle after she'd been through some terrifying times and was the first safe haven she'd ever had.  As a result, we were pretty much inseparable for the majority of the time we were together.  Even now, that bond exists despite there being 3500 miles between us.

Gidday Mate

It warms the heart to hear you speak of her. Inspiring to hear such pure goodness still exists out there.

View PostKludge808, on 13 January 2013 - 08:37 PM, said:

How'd it go? :-)

Really well thanks :D She is just glowing, had just been down to the local shopping centre and had her picky taken with her little boy, and a python wrapped over her shoulders! I sure was not expecting that, but the best visits are the unannounced ones, thanks for the inspiration mate.

View PostKludge808, on 13 January 2013 - 08:37 PM, said:

I had two 4-pair Cat5 cables plus a fiber pair pulled to each major workstation.  (Minor ones didn't get fiber.)  At the same time, I made sure that there was provision to pull new cable (copper or fiber) in case that became inadequate.  There was absolutely no POTS cabling anywhere.  None at all.  There were major budget battles along the way but overall I came out ahead with what I needed while conceding some points I could live without.  (Of course, I never told anyone that part. ;-) )

Ahh, you kingdom for a fibre! Ever read the BOFH? Interesting It tales ;) Simon would have a suggestion on how to "acquire" fibre I am sure. Cat 5 is limited to 75 bps isn't it, you would have had your work cut out for you!
Always budget battles in IT! So much gets wasted on accountants insisting on the latest bloody WIndow's the day it comes out! Just to force the clients and colleagues to all upgrade! They do not see hardware so it does not exist, in fact, that  last part sounds a bit like an echo in here LOL.

View PostKludge808, on 13 January 2013 - 08:37 PM, said:

Yep.  Kind of takes the idea of "Wizard War" (Ref: WW II) to a whole new level. :-D

:tu:

View PostKludge808, on 13 January 2013 - 08:37 PM, said:

Dropped it?  I think they buried it!  "I believe they exist therefore they exist," seems to be the current trend of thought.  This makes it all but a religion - maybe a cult? - which is a not good thing where skeptical inquiry is needed, even if it's by other believers who happen to believe a slightly different version.  I know Boony swore off CTs - or at least 9/11 - and I finally gave up on that particular area.

:w00t: Put it better than I possibly could have. :tu:

Darn that Boon, getting a life and all!

I think I would agree, what we re seeing lately is reminiscent of a cult, that level of obedience to a certain ideal no matter what sensibilities confront their whacky promotions.

View PostKludge808, on 13 January 2013 - 08:37 PM, said:

Your sig says it all, we need new cases & data.  Batting around the old ones ad nauseum accomplishes nothing.  But then, the "investigators" are basically FTBs looking for proof of their beliefs.  Anything skeptics consider interesting is automatically written off as not being real.  Ah, that's the ticket.  Consider all the old cases as being of interest and they'll all go away. :-D

Cheers mate, it took me as very apt, and spending much time in here as I tend to, it seemed rather appropriate. The old cases are interesting, but more from a military point of view. There was so much going on I still struggle to fathom half of it. Thos directors Lost Shaman pointed out during the BOLA discussion were really far more sophisticated than I would have imagined for the time frame. We still have our Demons, Portage County, and as you mention, Lonnie Zamora, these perplexing conundrums will outlive us both I feel but all the same, it's enjoyable to stretch the grey matter about maybes in the meantime, but yes, with a fresh approach. I think we have outlived our modern Gods of the sky, and it is time to confront them.

View PostKludge808, on 13 January 2013 - 08:37 PM, said:

I wish I could see Noelle ... *sigh* ... Hope it went well ... :-)

Cheers, old friend

My wish is that your wait is short. I am spoiled with a mere half hour drive.

All the best my friend.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#178    psyche101

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 09:36 AM

View Postbadeskov, on 14 January 2013 - 03:08 AM, said:

Unfortunately I am flat out oversubscribed these day and simply have no time to engage, although I miss the debates here a lot. I do, however,  pop in every day to follow what is going on, but sadly I cannot afford the time to post very much. Hopefully in February things will turn out to the better.

Gidday Mate

I know where you are coming from, my contributions have been rather sporadic of late as well, but always good to see you, and hope the new year see's you in well. I have rather hit the ground running myself. I am also a glutton for punishment it seems :D.

View Postbadeskov, on 14 January 2013 - 03:08 AM, said:

I must admit that I miss Sky. At least he put in a good effort and truly argued for his position. And there were real data points to research and argue. Discussing stacking rocks is just...absurd. I think TV is really rotting some people's brain.

Cheers,
Badeskov


Indeed, it feels good to be able to offer the man praise, in so many passionate debates we became quite heated, yet he always held his tongue and maintained the mark of a gentleman. Todays nonsense is nothing short of childish by comparison to the level Sky pushed a debate to. He made a debate interesting, todays debates are the same question for tens of pages.

I must say, he was 100% right about Red Tails, a very good movie. The man keeps some impressive company. If there is a UM hall of fame, he deserves a place in it.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#179    quillius

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 09:37 AM

View Postpsyche101, on 14 January 2013 - 08:33 AM, said:

I miss Sky, but am happy to see he is in his new niche, and comfortable. I kind of hope he does not come back, because he has become something of a legend, and Indeed I agree, he was ten times the man when it comes to the current silly debates such as how did man mange to pile rocks up. Todays "believers"** truly pale by comparison. Sky was a military man, and as such commanded respect. I sort of hope the legend lives on, as I fear he might have some trouble living up to the shoes he left. For sure, not a debater has come close to filling them. Long Live Skyeagle409.



Hey Psyche,

Happy New Year mate!! hope you all had a lovely time.
(yes me and the Quilliuses all did, many thanks :tu: )

with regards to Sky not returning, although I see your point I still think it would be great to have McG and Sky on the same thread arguing the cases......dont you think?


#180    psyche101

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 10:11 AM

View Postquillius, on 14 January 2013 - 09:37 AM, said:

Hey Psyche,

Happy New Year mate!! hope you all had a lovely time.
(yes me and the Quilliuses all did, many thanks :tu: )

with regards to Sky not returning, although I see your point I still think it would be great to have McG and Sky on the same thread arguing the cases......dont you think?

Cheers mate
Up and down, lost a mate over the break, that was sad, but he was a fighter, and did well, and inspiration to us all right to the end. Always good to see the kids in daylight hours too :D
Indeed, I would welcome the old bird back, it just seems sometimes legends can become larger than life, heck, I am singing his praises! I'd hate to see a slip up, or something happen, and the legend lose some status. People are usually remembered for the last bad thing they did, not good, Sky has managed just the opposite, he was not Superman, but a great and passionate debater all the same and walked with his head held high, and with everyones deep respect. I'd like him remembered as the man even the skeptics missed. I think few can make such a claim.
But as you say, all the same, it would be great to have a real "believer" back, the current batch would be tripping over their jaws. It would also be a little stomach turning to watch some of the more cretinous attempt to steal any victory he has as their own.

You know what they always say when meeting a legend.

I thought you would be bigger?

Either way, I am good. Like you say, it's good and bad imagining both options.

*Quillius exemption to the current set of believers/discussion continues to apply :D

​Mate, you do a good job of stepping in with a whole new set of boots as opposed to filling old ones. We just need a couple more of you. Every considered becoming Raelllian? (They claim to clone, amongst other things) You are the new way my sig says we need. A new approach for a new frontier. Sky is a heavily experienced man, and we all deserve him a salute for his fine service to our way of life, he will remain a legend, but that new direction is what will take us from the dark ages. Thinking outside the box, challenging the parameters. The time for guessing is gone, the time for Gods in the sky is gone. Your approach will continue to earn the respect of the skeptical crowd, and it is restoring credibility to a subject that has suffered great blows from the credulous. It is fair and honest, and most of all, confronting. As long as people like you push the hard questions, I think the phenomena has a chance of crawling out of this hole it has languished in for so very long.
Your direction will see that tin foil hat come of forever. I am confident of it. I think you are one of the most important posters to happen to this forum for a long time. You have picked up a torch that has burned so many us us, and are wielding it in a way that we all can admire. You bridged a gap many do not dare, and one most do not even realise exists. As far as this subject goes, I think one could not do better than to approach your good self about it. Just quietly, I think some legends would have a hard time keeping up with you, even Skeptical Ed, whom I had the pleasure of meeting before his departure from the forum. You have never refused good evidence, you have never taken the fringe approach, you have always asked fair and honest questions. I honestly fail to recognise how any single poster could possibly ask for more.

Preferably one should approach you in the opposite direction! :w00t: I think some of our best discussions have been "head on".

Good times, bad times, but also new times.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who




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