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WTC 911 EyeWitness~Hoboken


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#1666    skyeagle409

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 05:42 AM

View PostW Tell, on 21 May 2013 - 04:30 AM, said:

I've refuted it. I might not have prooven it, but I don't recall you being any part of "that" discussion.  Until you want to go back to "that" discussion and provide your case, than you're more than welcome. Untill then...............

How could  you have refuted it when the molten flow is in fact, molten aluminum? The fact that molten aluminum is flowing from the location where the airframe of United 175 came to rest and the silvery droplets are another clue the flow is aluminum. To further add, temperatures were high enough to melt aluminum, but far too low to melt steel, which would have made it impossible for that flow to have been steel.

I have seen molten aluminum before and in fact, I was near this C-141, tail number; 0253, when this photo was taken. The building in the background is the P-16, jet engine shop, which is where I would be eventually assigned during my employment with Raytheon Aerospace as I was still employed with the Air Force when this photo was taken. A few years later, the Air Force provided me with a hangar (hangar 843)  to set up my own airframe shop in which to provide structural support for the jet engine shop. My hangar is located behind the photographer who took this photo and I employed 12 technicians, some of which were electricians, machinist, airframe technicians, two of which I assigned to P-16 for direct support, and another to the composite shop and a painter.


Posted Image


This harden aluminum droplet came from the left wing.


Posted Image


Now, let's take another look at the molten flow from WTC2 and notice the silvery droplets and understand that the airframe of United 175 is sitting above the molten flow.

Posted Image

Edited by skyeagle409, 21 May 2013 - 05:45 AM.

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#1667    Stundie

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 11:23 PM

View Postskyeagle409, on 21 May 2013 - 05:42 AM, said:

How could  you have refuted it when the molten flow is in fact, molten aluminum? The fact that molten aluminum is flowing from the location where the airframe of United 175 came to rest and the silvery droplets are another clue the flow is aluminum. To further add, temperatures were high enough to melt aluminum, but far too low to melt steel, which would have made it impossible for that flow to have been steel.

I have seen molten aluminum before and in fact, I was near this C-141, tail number; 0253, when this photo was taken. The building in the background is the P-16, jet engine shop, which is where I would be eventually assigned during my employment with Raytheon Aerospace as I was still employed with the Air Force when this photo was taken. A few years later, the Air Force provided me with a hangar (hangar 843)  to set up my own airframe shop in which to provide structural support for the jet engine shop. My hangar is located behind the photographer who took this photo and I employed 12 technicians, some of which were electricians, machinist, airframe technicians, two of which I assigned to P-16 for direct support, and another to the composite shop and a painter.


Posted Image


This harden aluminum droplet came from the left wing.


Posted Image


Now, let's take another look at the molten flow from WTC2 and notice the silvery droplets and understand that the airframe of United 175 is sitting above the molten flow.

Posted Image
Shows a photo of a plane on fire, a piece of aluminium and voila, it's aluminium.

Even though from the photo above, it is showing none of the characteristics of aluminium. Unless you believe in alchemy of some description?? lol

Oh wait a minute, I forgot, it's aluminium mixed with other materials which makes it glow like that??

Although we are still waiting on you to name the many materials it mixed with to create this new stylee aluminium??

Maybe it's Aluminium missed with SunnyD that makes it look exactly like molten steel and also made the temperatures appear over 1200 degrees C according to your colour chart. lol

Edited by Stundie, 21 May 2013 - 11:25 PM.

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#1668    skyeagle409

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 12:22 AM

View PostStundie, on 21 May 2013 - 11:23 PM, said:

Shows a photo of a plane on fire, a piece of aluminium and voila, it's aluminium.

After all, the airframe of United 175 was constructed of aluminum as well, not to mention the facade of the WTC towers.

Quote

Even though from the photo above, it is showing none of the characteristics of aluminium. Unless you believe in alchemy of some description??

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that the silvery droplets are by no means, steel.

Quote

Oh wait a minute, I forgot, it's aluminium mixed with other materials which makes it glow like that??

That's right!! Cabin contents of the airliners, and from within the WTC buildings would have been mixed with the molten aluminum and result in the change of color.

Quote

Although we are still waiting on you to name the many materials it mixed with to create this new stylee aluminium??

Office furniture, materials from passenger seats, fiberglass, carpets, plastics,honeycomb adhesives and sealants used in aircraft construction, lubrication grease, batteries, etc.

Quote

Maybe it's Aluminium missed with SunnyD that makes it look exactly like molten steel and also made the temperatures appear over 1200 degrees C according to your colour chart

The droplets alone debunks the molten steel theory.

Edited by skyeagle409, 22 May 2013 - 12:24 AM.

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#1669    ciriuslea

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 01:40 AM

Its quite clear from this video that the towers collapse from the floor level into itself and not as I previously thought from the pancake effect from the top level as a result of the plane crash damage


#1670    skyeagle409

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 04:41 AM

View Postciriuslea, on 22 May 2013 - 01:40 AM, said:

Its quite clear from this video that the towers collapse from the floor level into itself and not as I previously thought from the pancake effect from the top level as a result of the plane crash damage

Let's take another look.





Edited by skyeagle409, 22 May 2013 - 04:52 AM.

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#1671    skyeagle409

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 07:57 AM

View PostW Tell, on 21 May 2013 - 04:30 AM, said:

I've refuted it. I might not have prooven it, but I don't recall you being any part of "that" discussion.  Until you want to go back to "that" discussion and provide your case, than you're more than welcome. Untill then...............

Lead the way. I have something to prove. BTW, look at the trajectory of United 175 and notice the location of WTC2 where the molten aluminum was flowing from. The molten aluminum was flowing from the exact location in the corner of WTC2  where much of the aluminum airframe of United 175 came to rest. The aluminum airframe was exposed to temperatures high enough to melt aluminum and weaken structural steel columns as indicated by the bowing and buckling of WTC2 prior to its collapse.

Posted ImagePosted Image

Edited by skyeagle409, 22 May 2013 - 08:28 AM.

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#1672    RaptorBites

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 08:29 AM

View Postciriuslea, on 22 May 2013 - 01:40 AM, said:

Its quite clear from this video that the towers collapse from the floor level into itself and not as I previously thought from the pancake effect from the top level as a result of the plane crash damage

Are you seriously suggesting that the collapse on both WTC towers initiated from the ground floor instead of at the collapse zones?

If so, then I would really like to see your proof, as all visual records clearly shows collapse initiation at the impact zone.

This ought to be entertaining....I'm predicting a video of the collapse viewed upside down, but considering you are probably the first to suggest such a theory on this board, I'm not expecting much....

No, you surround yourself with a whole different kettle of crazy. - Sir Wearer of Hats

#1673    Stundie

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 08:33 AM

View Postskyeagle409, on 22 May 2013 - 12:22 AM, said:

After all, the airframe of United 175 was constructed of aluminum as well, not to mention the facade of the WTC towers.
Here we go your Wurzel Gummage arguments. Its clear you are having a mental breakdown of some description as nobody is arguing or denying that the plane and façade was molten aluminium. You are arguing a point no one has made and stating the obvious but here is your logic....

The Plane & Façade are made of aluminium, so therefore the molten metal is aluminium.

Is no different to saying.....

The WTC are made of Steel, so therefore the molten metal is Steel.

View Postskyeagle409, on 22 May 2013 - 12:22 AM, said:

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that the silvery droplets are by no means, steel.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that the silvery droplets are by no means, aluminium.

View Postskyeagle409, on 22 May 2013 - 12:22 AM, said:

That's right!! Cabin contents of the airliners, and from within the WTC buildings would have been mixed with the molten aluminum and result in the change of color.
Sorry but you don't just mixed in random materials found on a plane which automatically changes the colour of aluminium. You said there were lots of things which could change the colour, but you have invented facts and evidence which only exist in your head because out of all of these things, you haven't been able to point to a single one which would change the colour. :blink: lol

Pathetic really. lol

View Postskyeagle409, on 22 May 2013 - 12:22 AM, said:

Office furniture, materials from passenger seats, fiberglass, carpets, plastics,honeycomb adhesives and sealants used in aircraft construction, lubrication grease, batteries, etc.
You sound like the wicked witch in a pantomime. Telling the audience what goes into their potion to create some magic, or in this case, glowing aluminium.

Witch: "I need a potion to create glowing aluminium. I'm going to need some aluminium of course."
Puts aluminium in her boiling hot cauldron and pulls out her book of magic spells and flicks through the pages..
Witch: "Glowing aluminium...Glowing aluminium...Glowing aluminium...ah ha!! Here it is! I need some random office furniture."
Chucks it in the pot.
Witch: "One back of a passenger seat. 1 square foot of fiberglass. 1 square metre of carpet. A pinch of plastic"
Chucks it in the pot.
Witch: "Some honeycomb adhesives...now where did I put that...Oh! There you are."
Chucks it in the pot.
Witch: "Some sealants used in aircraft construction, a tube of lubrication grease and a 12V car battery"
The witch stirs the bubbling cauldron and reads the magic spell..
Witch: "Hocus pocus Hocus flow, make the aluminium glow!"
And in a puff of smoke, there was aluminium glowing bright orange which looked like it was over 1200C but wasn't cause the witches cauldron didn't have Office furniture, materials from passenger seats, fiberglass, carpets, plastics, honeycomb adhesives and sealants used in aircraft construction, lubrication grease, batteries, etc to help it get to 1200C. lol

View Postskyeagle409, on 22 May 2013 - 12:22 AM, said:

The droplets alone debunks the molten steel theory.
Of course it does with your magic glowing aluminium. Seeing as you like spam and posting stuff we have all see before, here is a panto witch trying out your magic spell. lol



Arrggh...what a shame it didn't work, maybe he failed because he didn't say the magic words hey Skyeagle? lol

There is no such thing as magic, just magicians and fools.

#1674    skyeagle409

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 08:38 AM

View PostStundie, on 22 May 2013 - 08:33 AM, said:

Here we go your Wurzel Gummage arguments. Its clear you are having a mental breakdown of some description as nobody is arguing or denying that the plane and façade was molten aluminium.

However, temperatures were high enough to melt aluminum but too low to melt steel.

Quote

The Plane & Façade are made of aluminium, so therefore the molten metal is aluminium.

Since the temperatures were high enough to melt aluminum, that is correct, because temperatures were far too low to melt steel.

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#1675    skyeagle409

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 08:40 AM

View PostStundie, on 22 May 2013 - 08:33 AM, said:

Arrggh...what a shame it didn't work, maybe he failed because he didn't say the magic words hey Skyeagle? lol

Have him mix contents found in the cabin of airliners and inside office buildings and see what happens to the color. Notice the color in the cup at time line 2:02. and notice the silvery droplets, which is exactly what is depicted falling from WTC2.

Quote

Molten Aluminum

The next piece of evidence they point to is the color, which is a bright yellow at the center. They say aluminum is silver when melted. While this is true, at higher temperatures it can be yellow.

http://www.debunking...moltensteel.htm


Molten Metal


Several times over the last year I have been asked to comment on a photo of one of the Trade Center Towers. The photo shows a molten flow from one of the windows. The flow falls down along the building. It appears orange and turns to a gray color as it cools.

The questions usually want me to address "Is this photo a fake?" and "Is the flow steel or aluminum?" "Is this situation possible?"

First, I will address the temperature range, then the color of the flow.

I am working in imperial units and temperature in degrees F [To convert to C use this link]

Metals lose about 50% of their strength at 60% of their melting temperature. This is common knowledge and may be found in any undergraduate text regarding "Fracture and Deformation of Materials."

If the approximate melting temperature of steel is 2750 F the the material would be plastic at 1650 F. Even assuming a safety factor of 3, you would expect the bolts or other structural members to deform and fail near this temperature, especially with the additional weight if a jet air liner. I would assume that the live load calculations did not include the typical office equipment and an airliner plus a factor of 3. THEREFORE I assume that the flow is not steel and that the temperature of the steel members at the time of the photo is less than 1650 F.

Assuming that the flow would be molten aluminum from the airliner and the color of molten aluminum is silver then why is the flow orange?

The color of pure molten aluminum is silver, It has an emissivity of .12. Steel has an emissivity of .4 and appears orange in the temperature range of molten aluminum.

The emissivity of aluminum oxide is .44 and also appears orange in the melting temperature range of molten aluminum.

The emissivity of plate glass is .937 It begins to soften at 1000 F and flows around 1350 F. Silica has an emissivity of .8

Copper oxide also has an emissivity of .8. however I will assume that their effect is negligible.

Aluminum oxidizes readily in the foundry under ideal melting conditions. Large surface area relative to thickness, turbulence, the presence of water or oil greatly increases the oxidation of aluminum. A jet airliner is made of thin aluminum sheet and most probably suffered considerable oxidation especially in contact with an open flame and being in contact with jet fuel. If you don't believe this, try melting a few soda cans over coals or open flame. If you are lucky you will end up with only 50% aluminum oxide. However, the cans may completely burn up.

The specific gravity of aluminum is 2.7. The specific gravity of aluminum oxide (Al2O3-3H2O) is 2.42 the specific gravity of Si = 2.40 and Glass is 2.65 these are all very similar and likely to be entrained in a molten aluminum flow. Don't believe it? lightly stir the dross into molten aluminum. The surface tension is so high is is almost impossible to separate them.

THEREFORE assuming that the flow consist of molten aluminum and considerable oxides, and assuming that the windows in the trade center were plate glass and also in a plastic state and that they were also likely entrained in the molten aluminum. I would expect the flow to appear to be orange in color. Especially since both the entrained materials have emissivities equal to or more than twice that of iron.

Also since dross cools to a gray color and glass with impurities also turns dark. I would expect that the flow would darken upon cooling.

I would also suggest that not only is the photo possible, but entirely likely.

Summary:The flow is not steel because the structural steel would fail well below the melting temperature. The flow is likely to be a mixture of aluminum, aluminum oxides, molten glass and coals of whatever trash the aluminum flowed over as it reached the open window. Such a flow would appear orange and cool to a dark color.

Stephen D. Chastain


Aluminum Temperature Chart

Posted Image




Molten Aluminum

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image







Edited by skyeagle409, 22 May 2013 - 08:58 AM.

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#1676    Stundie

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 09:40 AM

View Postskyeagle409, on 22 May 2013 - 08:40 AM, said:

Have him mix contents found in the cabin of airliners and inside office buildings and see what happens to the color.
Where is your evidence that if you do this, it changes the colour of aluminium?

View Postskyeagle409, on 22 May 2013 - 08:40 AM, said:

Notice the color in the cup at time line 2:02. and notice the silvery droplets, which is exactly what is depicted falling from WTC2.
No it doesn't. lol

None of that spam backs up what you claim as the photos show it glowing in darkened conditions. lol Not in daylight conditions and we know that the temperature for the source is over 1200C, so chances are it's molten steel.

Now you said that glowing aluminium can be made by mixing it with different materials, so PROVE IT??? lol

There is no such thing as magic, just magicians and fools.

#1677    skyeagle409

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 09:50 AM

View PostStundie, on 22 May 2013 - 09:40 AM, said:

Where is your evidence that if you do this, it changes the colour of aluminium?

Simple! Look at the aluminum chart. At what temperature does aluminum glow yellow?

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#1678    skyeagle409

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 09:55 AM

View PostStundie, on 22 May 2013 - 09:40 AM, said:

Now you said that glowing aluminium can be made by mixing it with different materials, so PROVE IT??? lol

Go back and read my response in that respect because you missed it. In other words, you are not paying attention. Then, come back and review this video.



Edited by skyeagle409, 22 May 2013 - 09:58 AM.

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#1679    Q24

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 11:20 PM

Posted Image

THERMITE!

Lower-right picture the molten flow from WTC2 which initiated in the minutes prior to collapse.

Centre picture shows what thermite reaction can do to structural steel.

Operation Northwoods was a 1962 plan by the US Department of Defense to cause acts of violence, blamed on Cuba, in order to generate U.S. public support for military action against the Cuban government. The plan called for various false flag actions, such as staged terrorist attacks and plane hijackings, on U.S. and Cuban soil.

#1680    skyeagle409

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 11:35 PM

View PostQ24, on 22 May 2013 - 11:20 PM, said:

Posted Image

THERMITE!

Lower-right picture the molten flow from WTC2 which initiated in the minutes prior to collapse.

Centre picture shows what thermite reaction can do to structural steel.
I might add that those silvery droplets are not molten steel and there is no evidence that thermite or thermate were used. I might add that Steven Jones and Richard Gage were caught lying and as a result, there were those who were duped. Even the colleagues of Steven Jones have distanced themselves from him and do not agree with his thermite assessment. . Ever wondered why demolition companies use RDX and dynamite to demolish tall buildings?

Now, let's take a look at the WTC towers. Given their unique design, what would happen if I used a torch to cut every steel column in their cores? Will they collapse or simply remain standing? The fact the buildings were buckling just prior to their collapse event was an indication that fires were weakening their steel structures and nothing to do with explosives.

Quote


Did Experts on the scene think that WTC 7 was a controlled demolition?

Whom should we ask to find out if WTC 7's collapse resembled an explosive demolition? How about asking the explosive demolition experts who were on the scene on 9/11? :
"Several demolition teams had reached Ground Zero by 3:00 pm on 9/11, and these individuals witnessed the collapse of WTC 7 from within a few hundred feet of the event. We have spoken with several who possess extensive experience in explosive demolition, and all reported seeing or hearing nothing to indicate an explosive detonation precipitating the collapse.

As one eyewitness told us, "We were all standing around helpless...we knew full well it was going to collapse. Everyone there knew. You gotta remember there was a lot of confusion and we didn't know if another plane was coming...but I never heard explosions like demo charges. We knew with the damage to the building and how hot the fire was, that building was gonna go, so we just waited, and a little later it went."

No explosive sounds like these were reported or recorded when WTC 7 collapsed.

My link


Good Science and 9-11 Demolition Theories

Brent Blanchard devotes section 4 of his paper to the issue of seismic recordings on 9/11. Blanchard is Senior Editor of ImplosionWorld, a website which posts details of explosive demolitions, and also Director of Field Operations at Protec Documentation Services, Inc. Protec works in the field of vibration monitoring and structure inspection, a key service to both the construction and demolition industries.

Vibration monitoring performed by independent experts has long been considered crucial for companies carrying out explosive demolition, because owners of nearby buildings are keen to sue if any cracks or other structural damage appears. The field seismographs used by Protec and others provide the key scientific evidence for disturbances that may have caused damage, and there were a number of such seismographs operated by Protec on 9/11 in the vicinity of Ground Zero, for monitoring construction sites.

Blanchard tells us that data from these machines, and seismographs operated elsewhere, all confirm single vibration events recording the collapse. None of them record the tell-tale 'spikes' that would indicate explosive detonations prior to collapse. In his words:

This evidence makes a compelling argument against explosive demolition. The laws of physics dictate that any detonation powerful enough to defeat steel columns would have transferred excess energy through those same columns into the ground, and would certainly have been detected by at least one of the monitors that were sensitive enough to record the structural collapses. However, a detailed analysis of all available data reveals no presence of any unusual or abnormal vibration events.

My link


Edited by skyeagle409, 22 May 2013 - 11:57 PM.

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