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'Culture war' more than gun rights

gun control nra

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#106    Michelle

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 09:50 PM

With one in three households in the US owning guns, if you go by the polls, there should be people dropping like flies left and right. Then of course there are all of the illegal guns in houses where they would not give an honest answer.


#107    Glorfindel

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 10:04 PM

View PostGlorfindel, on 06 May 2013 - 10:11 PM, said:

WHAT? Odds are that a firarm in a home will harm someone in that home? Do you have any idea of many dead Americans there would be daily if that were the case? Now obviously I know thats not what was meant, but its obvious the words were twisted to give that impression. Are you honestly denying that many studies are a waste of time? Are you honestly denying that afro-centists and other less than credible people are doing great as professors in many universities? Surely you can't be this ignorant. Oh yeah, and you forgot to turn the sentence where I mentioned "marxism" light grey. Tell me why is it morally justified to persecute professors who don't fall in line with the rest of the mainstream lefty views? Freedom of speech has no place in academia? Why should I waste time proving anything to you when you refuse to acknowledge anything that contradicts you? Tell me when was the scientific method invented? I will actually start responding with facts to your posts, as soon as you prove science and liberalism are so similar that they can be associated. Not just "well my side likes science more", I want you to logically demonstrate how you can make this claim. If you do that, then yes, I will argue in an academic manner. So far from what I've seen, debating with you will be just like debating a creationists or a David Icke fan; a complete waste of time.

I'm waiting.


#108    Sir Wearer of Hats

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 10:19 PM

View PostLeave Britney alone!, on 07 May 2013 - 01:52 AM, said:

We are not the same, I am not going to call you anything, nothing personal or negative at least, because we are the same.

Quibbling over that data set is not going to interest me.

Have a nice morning.
What data shall we quibble over then, hmm?
One in three US households have guns. A third. That's more people with guns then the entire population of my country. And yet the suicide rate remains roughly equivalent between the US and Oz. Gun ownership here is 5.2% according to wikipedia. So if guns cause suicide - which is your preposition apparently, as you don't want to "quibble" and define what you mean - how come it's not higher in the US where there's more guns?

I must not fear. Fear is the Mind-Killer. It is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and to move through me. And when it is gone I will turn the inner eye to see it's path.
When the fear is gone, there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.

#109    Kowalski

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 11:31 PM

View PostWearer of Hats, on 07 May 2013 - 10:19 PM, said:

What data shall we quibble over then, hmm?
One in three US households have guns. A third. That's more people with guns then the entire population of my country. And yet the suicide rate remains roughly equivalent between the US and Oz. Gun ownership here is 5.2% according to wikipedia. So if guns cause suicide - which is your preposition apparently, as you don't want to "quibble" and define what you mean - how come it's not higher in the US where there's more guns?

I know, that my husbands favorite aunt, who committed suicide, had access to guns, but chose to hang herself....Also, my neighbor, three years ago, hung herself also. Her nephew locked up all his guns cause he was afraid she would try to kill herself. She went out into the woods and hung herself. Her nephew found her body three months later...
I think the cops could have done more in her situation. Her nephew called them out, and was worried she would try to kill herself. She ran off into the woods. So they came out, took some statements, looked for her for like 15 minutes, and then left. I know she had problems (drugs like cocaine) but she was the sweetest person and would have taken her shirt off her back to help someone. Her nephew is now an alcoholic. I feel so sorry for him, because he did EVERYTHING, he could do and she still killed herself. So speaking from personal experiance, I have to say guns in the home don't CAUSE more suicides. If someone wants to kill themselves, they will find a way. Just like murder. If someone wants to kill someone or alot of people they will find a way. A gun is just the tool they use. They both hung themselves with electrical cords, but you don't see me or anyone of my family, asking for electrical cords to be banned...

Edited by Kowalski, 07 May 2013 - 11:42 PM.


#110    Jessica Christ

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 12:00 AM

View PostWearer of Hats, on 07 May 2013 - 10:19 PM, said:


What data shall we quibble over then, hmm?

We are not going to.

A question was asked: "Do you have any idea of many dead Americans there would be daily if that were the case?"

It was answered plainly, without opinion, without a willingness to quibble, just a few numbers from our CDC, and simply sharing that resource from our CDC in case others want to take advantage of it.

For me quibbling would be contention with a back and forth of simple and short sentences. Unsure what you are trying to solicit but it is unlikely you will find it with me. We just have different styles of conversing.

Edited by Leave Britney alone!, 08 May 2013 - 12:02 AM.


#111    ninjadude

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 02:01 AM

View PostGlorfindel, on 07 May 2013 - 09:32 PM, said:

On a side note, do you really think self-reliance is unneccesary in today's world?

where do you live in relationship to a major city? the answer will answer your question.

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#112    Sir Wearer of Hats

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 03:20 AM

View PostLeave Britney alone!, on 08 May 2013 - 12:00 AM, said:

We are not going to.

A question was asked: "Do you have any idea of many dead Americans there would be daily if that were the case?"

It was answered plainly, without opinion, without a willingness to quibble, just a few numbers from our CDC, and simply sharing that resource from our CDC in case others want to take advantage of it.

For me quibbling would be contention with a back and forth of simple and short sentences. Unsure what you are trying to solicit but it is unlikely you will find it with me. We just have different styles of conversing.
indeed we do.
it seems that I like to ask questions in order to get answers and you like to stand on a soapbox and hector.
Apropos of nothing - I was anti-second amendment when I came here. my opinos changed because I spoke TO people, not AT people. Great way to learn talknig to people.

I must not fear. Fear is the Mind-Killer. It is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and to move through me. And when it is gone I will turn the inner eye to see it's path.
When the fear is gone, there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.

#113    Michelle

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 03:39 AM

View Postninjadude, on 08 May 2013 - 02:01 AM, said:

where do you live in relationship to a major city? the answer will answer your question.

How quickly you forget Katrina with the looting and killings that happened during a major disaster in New Orleans. Oddly enough, the press hasn't focused more recently on Sandy, where people months later still don't have plumbing, electricity or a place to live. I wonder why that is?


#114    Jessica Christ

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 10:20 AM

View PostSir Wearer of Hats, on 08 May 2013 - 03:20 AM, said:

indeed we do.
it seems that I like to ask questions in order to get answers and you like to stand on a soapbox and hector.
Apropos of nothing - I was anti-second amendment when I came here. my opinos changed because I spoke TO people, not AT people. Great way to learn talknig to people.

Well, what was stated was that we have different styles of conversing and that I did not prefer quibling (in all fairness you asked me what we should quibble about after I stated I did not want to quibble, indicating you prefer that style of conversation).

There were no personal attacks made on you by these two statements since it is platforms that should be attacked and not persons directly.

Spoiler

So, look at the way you have personally discussed or addressed me in bold above and below.

Do not be surprised if there is not much for me to respond to after that or if I do not want to speak TO certain people but choose to speak AT their platform (re: "my opinos changed because I spoke TO people, not AT people.")

We can discuss if we are all chill but once personal attacks come out they will be ignored or noted but there is never a need to respond in kind.

View PostSir Wearer of Hats, on 06 May 2013 - 10:47 AM, said:

what's the first rule of stastics? well here in the funny lands of Oz it's "corolation does not mean causation", dunno what it is in the enlightened Americas LBA lives in.

View PostSir Wearer of Hats, on 06 May 2013 - 10:22 PM, said:

I think what LBA is trying and failing to say is "a gun is more likely to be used to harm/accidentally bring harm to a family member, then it is to harm an intruder or an outsider".
For example, I'm more likely to hurt myself on my bike then I am someone else" that sort of thing.


Edited by Leave Britney alone!, 08 May 2013 - 10:25 AM.


#115    aztek

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 07:43 PM

Two Boys Suspended For Pointing Pencils Like Guns

RESIDENT TROLL.

#116    Sir Wearer of Hats

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 09:20 PM

View PostLeave Britney alone!, on 08 May 2013 - 10:20 AM, said:

Well, what was stated was that we have different styles of conversing and that I did not prefer quibling (in all fairness you asked me what we should quibble about after I stated I did not want to quibble, indicating you prefer that style of conversation).

There were no personal attacks made on you by these two statements since it is platforms that should be attacked and not persons directly.

Spoiler

So, look at the way you have personally discussed or addressed me in bold above and below.

Do not be surprised if there is not much for me to respond to after that or if I do not want to speak TO certain people but choose to speak AT their platform (re: "my opinos changed because I spoke TO people, not AT people.")

We can discuss if we are all chill but once personal attacks come out they will be ignored or noted but there is never a need to respond in kind.
Son, if you think what I said were "personal attacks" the Internet's going to eat you alive.
thing is, and I'm sure you'll disagree, you do talk at people. You quote pages of statistics, you refer to other articles and websites but you don't tell us what you think. You dress your opinions up as facts and whenever someone has the gall to disagree and call you out on something you've said you call it a personal attack.


The difference between a heated debate and a personal attack is that the former "plays the ball" and talks about what people say and the later talks about the people themselves. I've just talked about how you pitch the ball as well as the pitch itself.

Edited by Sir Wearer of Hats, 08 May 2013 - 09:28 PM.

I must not fear. Fear is the Mind-Killer. It is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and to move through me. And when it is gone I will turn the inner eye to see it's path.
When the fear is gone, there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.

#117    preacherman76

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 09:36 PM

View PostThe New Richard Nixon, on 04 May 2013 - 07:00 PM, said:

Gun manufacturers only care about profit, they dont care whether you live or die, anti gun or not. The same with drug companies only care about profit.

Same with monsanto.

Some things are true, even if you dont believe them.

#118    preacherman76

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 09:39 PM

View PostLeave Britney alone!, on 04 May 2013 - 07:42 PM, said:

"Fighters for freedom", is an unrealistic position since it is doubtful these wannabe revolutionaries can out match a professional military force equipped with UAVs.

Why would you assume our military would side with tyranny? They took a oath to defend the constitution against ALL enemies.

Edited by preacherman76, 08 May 2013 - 09:40 PM.

Some things are true, even if you dont believe them.

#119    preacherman76

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 09:48 PM

View PostSir Wearer of Hats, on 04 May 2013 - 10:51 PM, said:

I can't understand why they resist so virulently stricter background checks.
Yes the Second Amendment says "shall not restrict", but you have to balance rights from one area against rights from another - the right to life and liberty being on the first line of the Consitution IIRC (I'm an Aussie so please don't shoot me if I'm wrong).
You want people to be able to buy bazookas? Fine. Just accept that there's going to be a 12 month waiting list with all sort of checks.
See, no restriction on what you can buy, just a delay on when you can get it. Everyone wins in the end, noones life is risked by something easily prevented and everyone who wants a kalashnikov can have one.

What would a more strict back ground check imply though? Anyone can buy a gun so long as you are not a felon. Are you saying that people should be denied the second amendment for more then being a felon?

Some things are true, even if you dont believe them.

#120    Sir Wearer of Hats

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 10:30 PM

View Postpreacherman76, on 08 May 2013 - 09:48 PM, said:

What would a more strict back ground check imply though? Anyone can buy a gun so long as you are not a felon. Are you saying that people should be denied the second amendment for more then being a felon?
Well as down that road does lie Totalitarianism.
All inclusive background checks is perhaps a better phrase - you MUST do a background check on someone to sell a gun, proof of that check is what makes the sale legal. It'll be perfect, tonnes of new jobs created over night in the department of fire arm background checks. Of course it'll make private sales nigh impossible, but you could sell to liscenced business buyers who on-sell to others.

I must not fear. Fear is the Mind-Killer. It is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and to move through me. And when it is gone I will turn the inner eye to see it's path.
When the fear is gone, there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.





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