lost_shaman Posted January 5, 2013 #51 Share Posted January 5, 2013 And this from the article by Benjamin Radford is pure nonsense. Mr. Ruiz moves his hand toward and around the window, apparently trying to rule out the possibility that the image is a reflection from within the cabin. However his hand only blocks reflections coming from the extreme left of the window; it does not rule out reflections coming from above and behind him -- which is where cabin lights would be. Yes Mr. Radford it does rule out the possibility because from the cameras point of view reflections are only being seen from one angle. i.e. the same angle as the reflection of the mans hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DKO Posted January 6, 2013 #52 Share Posted January 6, 2013 He did prove it by using the reflection of his hand and passing it over the part of the window where the light was originating. If it had been a reflection from inside the cabin the reflection of his hand would have blocked it out from the cameras view. The reflection could easily be coming over his shoulder. He only puts his hand on one side of the window, doesn't block every angle. Also those windows are a little bit curved, could have come from a range of angles. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted January 6, 2013 #53 Share Posted January 6, 2013 If any of the hundreds of people who read this thread are flying anytime soon, at night, please take a digital camera or a camera equipted phone and try this out. I'm resonably sure it can be proven to be a reflection.There are litterally hundreds of lights insde a plane, and when I have flown at night, it is rare to have more then a few of the overheads on, as people usually sleep. Especially on a flight like NY to Chicago, that is going to be a couple hours long. Anyway, each of those lights is going to have it's own angle on each window. The guy filming would have to stand and totally block all lights out, or better yet, put his camera directly on the window to show it was not a reflection. The fact this guy is a KNOWN faker means we should not even be posting about this. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DKO Posted January 6, 2013 #54 Share Posted January 6, 2013 (edited) I remember last year a photo came out of a UFO shooting lasers at a passenger plane. Turned out to be most likely a dual-flash from a camera phone. This photo just shows how the multi-layered window can give off a weird photo. It also shows that certain people that find a weird image in their photo will try and pass it off as a UFO or bigfoot or whatever. Edited January 6, 2013 by DKO 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DONTEATUS Posted January 6, 2013 #55 Share Posted January 6, 2013 Well it is a NEW YEAR ! Anyone wanna try to explain it futher ? I still believe it was William Shatner on the wing !with a flash light ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lost_shaman Posted January 6, 2013 #56 Share Posted January 6, 2013 The reflection could easily be coming over his shoulder. He only puts his hand on one side of the window, doesn't block every angle. Also those windows are a little bit curved, could have come from a range of angles. No a reflection could not be coming from over his shoulder. The position of the camera in relation to the window determines the angle from which reflected light is traveling into the cameras lens. Hence he doesn't need to block every angle. He proves it is not a reflection by passing the reflection of his hand over the part of the window that the light is seen. If it was a reflection from inside the Aircraft the reflection of his hand would have blocked it out. Here I made a video for you to show how this works with reflections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DONTEATUS Posted January 6, 2013 #57 Share Posted January 6, 2013 No a reflection could not be coming from over his shoulder. The position of the camera in relation to the window determines the angle from which reflected light is traveling into the cameras lens. Hence he doesn't need to block every angle. He proves it is not a reflection by passing the reflection of his hand over the part of the window that the light is seen. If it was a reflection from inside the Aircraft the reflection of his hand would have blocked it out. Here I made a video for you to show how this works with reflections. [media=] [/media] Well that just about tells it all Good Thing NASA has that kind of evidence there L.S. I think the issue is that the angle of the orig clip shows that the hand does not cover the direction of the light source ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lost_shaman Posted January 7, 2013 #58 Share Posted January 7, 2013 (edited) Well that just about tells it all Good Thing NASA has that kind of evidence there L.S. I think the issue is that the angle of the orig clip shows that the hand does not cover the direction of the light source ? Of course it does D. He passes his hands reflection over the light in the video and you can still see the light through the reflection of his hand! That proves the source of the light is outside the aircraft or the video was altered but it could not be a reflection from inside the Aircraft. Edited January 7, 2013 by lost_shaman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted January 7, 2013 #59 Share Posted January 7, 2013 (edited) I believe that is actually Not true Shaman. Can you go to that part and take a screen capture to proove what you are saying? What I saw was him waving his hand on the left side, but never crossing his hand directly in front of the light. Maybe I missed that when I looked away or something?? Edited January 7, 2013 by DieChecker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S2F Posted January 7, 2013 #60 Share Posted January 7, 2013 I believe that is actually Not true Shaman. Can you go to that part and take a screen capture to proove what you are saying? What I saw was him waving his hand on the left side, but never crossing his hand directly in front of the light. Maybe I missed that when I looked away or something?? Hey DC, I have to side with LS on this one, the angle of incidence equals the angle of reflection. From the video the position of the camera means that the only place that light could have reflected from was in front of and to the left of the camera. The guys hand clearly passed in front of that angle. If the light had been coming from behind the camera on the right it never would have made a reflection, visible to the camera's orientation at least. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lost_shaman Posted January 7, 2013 #61 Share Posted January 7, 2013 I believe that is actually Not true Shaman. Can you go to that part and take a screen capture to proove what you are saying? What I saw was him waving his hand on the left side, but never crossing his hand directly in front of the light. Maybe I missed that when I looked away or something?? Its exactly the same thing as I showed in the 15 second video I made. I passed the reflection of my hand in front of the reflection of the flashlight I used. I did not use my hand to directly block the reflection from the view of the camera, that would have proved nothing. I guess what you missed is that you can see the reflection of his hand in the window and it is that reflection of his hand that passes in front of the light and the light remains that PROVES it is not a reflection from the inside of the Aircraft. If the guy had been "crossing his hand directly in front of the light" from the cameras point of view, the light would be blocked out either way and would prove nothing! What he did actually PROVES something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted January 7, 2013 #62 Share Posted January 7, 2013 Its exactly the same thing as I showed in the 15 second video I made. I passed the reflection of my hand in front of the reflection of the flashlight I used. I did not use my hand to directly block the reflection from the view of the camera, that would have proved nothing. I guess what you missed is that you can see the reflection of his hand in the window and it is that reflection of his hand that passes in front of the light and the light remains that PROVES it is not a reflection from the inside of the Aircraft. If the guy had been "crossing his hand directly in front of the light" from the cameras point of view, the light would be blocked out either way and would prove nothing! What he did actually PROVES something. I noticed the hand and the reflection, but there are multiple points of light sources. But, I get your point.Another way of saying it would be that light does not usually reflect back at its source from a non-perpendicular surface. So for a light behind the video to be the source, it would have to bounce back at some kind of weird negative angle. I'm not convinced that is what happened hear... so I'm still listening and thinking about it. I think the dome light is getting debunked. So... with this guy being a Faker, I'm still calling it a fake, and falling back on CGI. This guy has show clear CGI ability. So that has got to be an option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lost_shaman Posted January 7, 2013 #63 Share Posted January 7, 2013 Hey DC, I have to side with LS on this one, the angle of incidence equals the angle of reflection. From the video the position of the camera means that the only place that light could have reflected from was in front of and to the left of the camera. The guys hand clearly passed in front of that angle. If the light had been coming from behind the camera on the right it never would have made a reflection, visible to the camera's orientation at least. Exactly S2F! The window would be reflecting light in many directions but the camera can only see reflections from a certain angle because light is travling in straight lines. A reflection is just a small amount of the light being "bounced" off a smoth surface much like a "Cue Ball" would "bounce" off the rim of a Pool table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lost_shaman Posted January 7, 2013 #64 Share Posted January 7, 2013 I think the dome light is getting debunked. So... with this guy being a Faker, I'm still calling it a fake, and falling back on CGI. This guy has show clear CGI ability. So that has got to be an option. I don't know about this video. I'm not justifying it. I'm just saying it isn't a reflection. As for Mr. Ruiz, I think he is a 'believer' and I don't think he made this video but rather someone sent him the video. He simply posted it and made sure to edit in his name and say it is being investigated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluenose Bulwark Posted January 7, 2013 #65 Share Posted January 7, 2013 (edited) OK, some people still don't get how reflections work. Here's some simple, easy to digest and understand pictures. This shows a reflection. A is the original object, B is the reflection, and C is where some people think that the reflection should be. Which it's not. Reflections are occurring off of surfaces that seem flat, but are made of tiny spheres, so they reflect where they would be in the real world, not at some obtuse angle. In the video, the filmer brings his hand up in order to show that NO! it's not a reflection. This is what happens here. A, which people claim is the light on the aircraft, is being shown in the window (reflective surface which I detail as blue) as B. The hand comes up (the pinkish shape) and blocks the reflection. BAM, B will be blocked 100% at the angle the camera is filming from. The window reflection shows his hand in place, now we can lay it to rest that what he's filming is not, in any way, coming from inside the aircraft. : We will go on to my last exhibit to show that if a reflection was happening from in front of him, instead of behind him, where the reflection would be : A is the original light on the aircraft, the pink blob is the hand. B would be the reflection of A. D is the light at the front of the aircraft inside, and C is it's reflection. Since the camera man has the camera pointed OUT the window facing back and a bit to the side, there is 100% no possible way for him to get a reflection from the front of the aircraft. So now you have it. There is no possible way that he can be filming a light coming from inside the aircraft. To add to this, ALL passenger overhead lights are recessed in on all aircraft, from civilian to military aircraft, and are of a low enough lumen (if I remember correctly it's about 20ish lumens) that they could not provide a light that intense. This only shows that it's not an internal reflection. It doesn't show that it's a stadium reflected by the dual window panes in most aircraft, or if it's a clever photoshop/video edit which it could be. In the next few days when I get back to work, if time permits, I can hopefully prove this to you beyond a reasonable doubt since I work on aircraft and I can not only provide ghetto MSPaint pictures, but REAL reflections on a REAL aircraft with real video. Edited January 7, 2013 by Nightpath Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted January 7, 2013 #66 Share Posted January 7, 2013 I don't know about this video. I'm not justifying it. I'm just saying it isn't a reflection. As for Mr. Ruiz, I think he is a 'believer' and I don't think he made this video but rather someone sent him the video. He simply posted it and made sure to edit in his name and say it is being investigated. Actually he is on record as being the person who made the video. Ruiz's state of mind could have contributed to misperceiving the image: He said he was exhausted "after three long days in New York City and after a long wait at the La Guardia airport, followed by long hours inside the airplane." It's not hard to see how a cabin light could have been mistaken for an exterior UFO if you are tired and bored on a long, late-night flight. http://news.discovery.com/human/ufo-videotaped-from-airplane-what-is-it-121229.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DONTEATUS Posted January 7, 2013 #67 Share Posted January 7, 2013 At all the different camera angles the person tapeing this being on the starboard side 3/4 into the seating rows ,I cant tell for sure but in my opinion its still the overhead lighting reflection in the window.The only time he moves his hand is when he puts his fingers right up to the reflection. at all times the reflection due to the cam operator is about in the same point in all of the footage . But until he comes thru and tells us Im open to ideas! I hear wht you say LS and I can see that too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted January 8, 2013 #68 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Soooo.... I was looking at the video again and noticed something... That in the first 5 seconds several flashes can be seen. And it appears that you can see an outline of what might be the tail fin, and the light is right on it. So, I tried running that part over and over again and it might be lightning, or perhaps the wing light flashing in cloud mist... I've seen that on night flights before. Then I had another idea... What if the guy wanted to film a UFO? What would be the easy way to do it? Obviously he can't just film a reflection, people will catch on, right? Can he can't just film stuff off the ground, again because people will catch on. So he needs to generate his own UFO, right? How to do that then??? Use his own light source? Sure why not, flashlights are not illegal on planes. People use them to read, right? So you have a flashlight, maybe one that can finely focus. Not as focused as a laser ponter maybe, but it makes a big dot... Then you need a target, right. Well obviously the Wing is not going to do, it is reasonably well lit. And clouds are right out, so the only thing left to shine a light on is, the tail fin, or an engine cowling. Say the guy in the seat in front of him holds a flashlight to the window and aims it at the tail fin, putting it right on the leading edge, so that it appears to have lines in it. Then he films it and shows it is not a reflection. Then the partner turns off the light, and it goes out suddenly. Then he turns it back on and focuses it tighter, so it appear to be smaller. Then maybe he adjusts it some more, or moves it down the edge of the tail fin to make it look like it moved. Maybe....??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluenose Bulwark Posted January 8, 2013 #69 Share Posted January 8, 2013 No light should be in that position on the aircraft, he is on the starboard side facing forward. I made a mistake thinking he was on the port looking back, but either way it's not a reflection from in the aircraft. When you're that forward on an aircraft you can't see the tail. Period. Physically impossible as the rear flaps, etc are not large enough to be viewed. One is hardpressed to see them from any point in the aircraft actually. I know this as a fact because we have static wicks on wing/tail and if we could view them from inside when doing a daily inspection before/after a fight it would be a hell of a lot easier. A recessed overhead light has been ruled out. The light shines through his reflection, and I've explained how reflections work to people who don't understand, WITH handy illustrations. Also, in his extended video he goes at length to show the interior of the plane. The port and starboard wingtips have navigational lights. There is also, on some aircraft, one on top and on the bottom. These have dual flashers of red/white each. I know of no aircraft that is highly reflective, for the simple fact that in public airliners it's not approved. The bright light reflecting off the front of the wingtip is a bit of a mystery, but if there was a polished area on an aircraft this would be it. It's not common, but I have seen it. As I said, it's either a real UFO, something on the ground or photoshop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted January 8, 2013 #70 Share Posted January 8, 2013 (edited) I thought he said that the UFO was following the Plane. If this was looking forward, wouldn't the UFO be very obvious to the cockpit?? If he is looking forward, he's well in front of the wings and much further then half way forward, right? Edit... The first video is defective in this way, the second video is much better in setting up the plane's arrangement and direction. Edited January 8, 2013 by DieChecker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted January 8, 2013 #71 Share Posted January 8, 2013 (edited) Apparently now there is a 2nd video. [media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eT3Uxx9dxSw&list=UUU6UJFEFDbWtoYBRDGRZ3uw&index=1[/media] It does appear that this video does show that it is to the front of the plane. And I don't think it is on the ground, since it stayed in front of the plane. Even a large well lit farm, or industrial complex would move rearwards. So it is not a flashlight then.... I also don't think it was a inside light, since there clearly appeared to be a lot of lights on and so you would expect multiple of them to be reflected in the window it that was the case. Does this kind of plane have a "spotlight"? I see lots of small commuter planes fly over after dusk that when they go through the fog/cloud, they appear to have a "ray" of light coming out the front? Could this be a defective forward aimed light? Just trying to think of everything and eliminate stuff. Edited January 8, 2013 by DieChecker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DONTEATUS Posted January 8, 2013 #72 Share Posted January 8, 2013 THe suspense Is Killing us ! Any bets on it being Big-Foot? Or ! Tooth fairy`s ? Nah ITs gotta be E.T flying a FTL craft ! right ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyche101 Posted January 8, 2013 #73 Share Posted January 8, 2013 (edited) Hi Nightpath Thank you for the detailed explanation, could I trouble you to dumb down one aspect for this dummy please please. In the above illustration, if I say point D is the camera, what if point A happened to be positioned beside, and perhaps above Point D? I understand that point B is the equal opposite to point A, but does not a still of sorts stay reflected on the surface itself? Obviously the "hand" remains as is. It is just that it looks an awful lot like that light fitting. Hard to toss that aside. Early in the piece, it also seems to move across the surface as he moves the camera, it might just be me, but it looks like he is setting up a specific angle to be honest. Cheers. Edited January 8, 2013 by psyche101 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyche101 Posted January 8, 2013 #74 Share Posted January 8, 2013 (edited) Then I had another idea... What if the guy wanted to film a UFO? What would be the easy way to do it? Obviously he can't just film a reflection, people will catch on, right? Can he can't just film stuff off the ground, again because people will catch on. So he needs to generate his own UFO, right? How to do that then??? Use his own light source? Sure why not, flashlights are not illegal on planes. People use them to read, right? So you have a flashlight, maybe one that can finely focus. Not as focused as a laser ponter maybe, but it makes a big dot... Then you need a target, right. Well obviously the Wing is not going to do, it is reasonably well lit. And clouds are right out, so the only thing left to shine a light on is, the tail fin, or an engine cowling. I was thinking simpler, more like opportunity knocking. Late night flight, Red Eye if my Stephen King serves me well, everyone asleep, one passenger behind reading. See's opportunity, grab cam, bam UFO, Internet and Alienz fame with the credulous of the world? The cross hairs are a real kicker I reckon. Edited January 8, 2013 by psyche101 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DONTEATUS Posted January 8, 2013 #75 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Nobody ever listens to Logic any more,Its the Overhead Light reflecting ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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