Obama Administration Accused Again

[Lt_Ripley]

Obama Administration Accused Again of Concealing Bush-Era Crimes

MONDAY 12 OCTOBER 2009

President Obama promised to usher in a new era of government transparency when he was sworn into office nine months ago.

On January 21, Obama signed an executive order instructing all federal agencies and departments to "adopt a presumption in favor" of Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) requests and promised to make the federal government more transparent.

"The government should not keep information confidential merely because public officials might be embarrassed by disclosure, because errors and failures might be revealed or because of speculative or abstract fears," Obama's order said. "In responding to requests under the FOIA, executive branch agencies should act promptly and in a spirit of cooperation, recognizing that such agencies are servants of the public."

But since that time, the Obama administration has sought to conceal information in several high-profile court cases, in an effort that civil libertarians say amounts to covering up crimes committed by the Bush administration.

Last week, in a federal courthouse in New York, Obama's Justice Department attorneys again argued in favor of secrecy. The case involved 23 lawyers representing detainees at Guantánamo Bay who alleged in court papers that they were targets of the Bush administration's so-called Terrorist Surveillance Program(TSP), an initiative operated by the National Security Agency (NSA) that Obama called "unlawful and unconstitutional" during his presidential campaign in 2007.

"Our work with our clients may have been deeply compromised by illegal surveillance carried out by the last administration," said Shayana Kadidal, senior managing attorney of the Center for Constitutional Rights (CCR) Guantánamo Global Justice Initiative, a civil rights organization. "The new administration has no legal basis for refusing to come clean about any violations of attorney-client privilege by the NSA."

Kadidal told Truthout that he could not describe details of the specific incidents that led CCR attorneys to suspect that their privileged communications were intercepted by the government. The plaintiffs in the case argue that listening in on the phone calls of lawyers who represent Guantánamo prisoners is a violation of attorney-client privilege. Kadidal could not go into detail because he wanted to avoid violating the same privilege.

The lawsuit centers around the Bush administration's surveillance programs, specifically the TSP, which was revealed by The New York Times in 2005. In defending the warrantless spying activities conducted by the NSA, the Bush administration said the TSP only allowed surveillance of electronic communications when one party is outside the United States and one party is suspected of being "a member or agent of al Qaeda or an associated terrorist organization," according to a letter from then-Attorney General Alberto Gonzalez.

The TSP was not administered or overseen by the special court set up by Congress to review secret surveillance activities. The Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) established the court as a check on the executive branch's power.

Under the TSP, the special FISA court was sidestepped, with shift supervisors at NSA - not judges in a courthouse - deciding who was an appropriate target for surveillance.

Whistleblowers have reported widespread abuse of this power. According to reports and documents, the NSA spied on UN Security Council members in the run-up to the Iraq war. Whistleblowers say the NSA monitored the personal calls of aid workers, journalists and active-duty soldiers serving in Iraq (video). Technology expert Mark Klein says that the NSA was collecting massive amounts of data traffic that passed through a major data hub in San Francisco.

cont ...

http://www.truthout.org/10120912

[Ufo Believer]

It's great to see that on the TV show House MD describes all politicans. 'Everybody Lies'. It just is really bad that no one ever sees it happening and it's happening right in front of them. All people in America sees this supposed Hope and Change crap. Well, let's see, what has changed. Obama got the Noble Peace Prize for connecting all the world to him. Everybody sees Obama as God for some reason. I now see Obama as nothing special.

The only hope that people should have is the hope they will have some change left for food after all the jobs have gone to China.

Edited October 13, 2009 by Ufo Believer

[ohio state buckeyes]

How would he govern ? Everything went all the way up to Bush and Cheney. Are we really going indictment them and watch the country come to a stand still for years to come. We are not going to send a former President and his V/P to the Hague. History will be their judge. God will be their judge.

[Lt_Ripley]

How would he govern ? Everything went all the way up to Bush and Cheney. Are we really going indictment them and watch the country come to a stand still for years to come. We are not going to send a former President and his V/P to the Hague. History will be their judge. God will be their judge.

Bush and Cheney should be jailed. hands down. yet we can forget our government holding them accountable.

Obama is just doing more of the same to a lesser degree. albeit better at foreign policy so far but it's too early .

as for everyone seeing Obama coming from God ? only the cons do. everyone else just didn't want another Bush. The country was screwed up enough from that little dictator.

[AROCES]

Obama like Pelosi and the current congress only go along with the luni left with the Bush crimes crying during election, after that they come back to earth and leave the luni left at their upside down world.

Edited October 13, 2009 by AROCES

[Torgo]

Bush and Cheney should be jailed. hands down. yet we can forget our government holding them accountable.

Obama is just doing more of the same to a lesser degree. albeit better at foreign policy so far but it's too early .

as for everyone seeing Obama coming from God ? only the cons do. everyone else just didn't want another Bush. The country was screwed up enough from that little dictator.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Obama came to speak at my university about a month ago. Several of my friends went to the rally. I didn't. Part because I had lots of work, but mostly because I have never seen a politician of any stripe I genuinely liked and wanted to support. They are by default in my mind the scum of the earth and I have NOTHING but disdain and disappointment for them. I let my friends go have their fun - I just would've been miserable.

[WoIverine]

I refuse to believe that the detainee situation is as black and white as the article presents. If there are actual crimes commited under the Bush administration on the detainees at gitmo, why would Obama even care about protecting one of the "worst" presidents in American History? It really doesn't make sense. There is a serious lack of information going on here. If there are crimes comitted and Obama actually is the decent, hard working, moral, role model he is, what is the deal with his sense of justice, and fairness?

Edited October 13, 2009 by SpiderCyde

[ohio state buckeyes]

Bush and Cheney should be jailed. hands down. yet we can forget our government holding them accountable.

Obama is just doing more of the same to a lesser degree. albeit better at foreign policy so far but it's too early .

as for everyone seeing Obama coming from God ? only the cons do. everyone else just didn't want another Bush. The country was screwed up enough from that little dictator.

Yes they do ! At what cost though ? By putting american lives at risk by making dragging out the truth ? The far right would go nuts nothing would get done. If they would let the info come out its not change anything for the better. Bush is never going to face prision, thats just the truth.

[Startraveler]

Part because I had lots of work, but mostly because I have never seen a politician of any stripe I genuinely liked and wanted to support. They are by default in my mind the scum of the earth and I have NOTHING but disdain and disappointment for them. I let my friends go have their fun - I just would've been miserable.

I don't think that's fair. Politicians are just products of the system they inhabit and they're bound by the same principles of social interaction as everybody else. You get mini-versions of the political sphere in every collection of people: that's why you have everything from "office politics" to inter- or intra-departmental politics in a university. And so on.

[eqgumby]

Bush and Cheney should be jailed. hands down. yet we can forget our government holding them accountable.

Obama is just doing more of the same to a lesser degree. albeit better at foreign policy so far but it's too early .

as for everyone seeing Obama coming from God ? only the cons do. everyone else just didn't want another Bush. The country was screwed up enough from that little dictator.

As should most modern age presidents. What's your point? Better at foreign policy how? He doesn't have one, other than a bunch of talk and agreeing to negotiate with and lend credence to anti-American governments that call for the destruction of all white people and the annihilation of Jews based on the fact that they aren't "real humans".

[Harte]

Bush and Cheney should be jailed. hands down.

Please list and explain on what charges.

Unless, of course, you mean on general principles.

I'd say the same about most politicians.

Harte

[Lt_Ripley]

Please list and explain on what charges.

Unless, of course, you mean on general principles.

I'd say the same about most politicians.

Harte

lol too easy ...

Geneva Convention: Even the current conservative US Supreme Court has "branded George W. Bush as a war criminal for violating the Geneva Convention regarding the torture of prisoners."

War Crimes: In the case of Hamdan vs Rumsfeld, it was proven that numerous war crimes have been committed by the Bush Administration in the war against Iraq, including the preemptive invasion itself. This does not include the unaccounted-for millions of dollars lost in Iraq or the unlawful management by the US State Department regarding the US Contractors operating in Iraq, Kuwait and Afghanistan. Holding and torturing prisoners being held without due process at Guantanamo Bay and the Abu Ghraib prison scandal are also serious war crimes.

Outing of a CIA Agent: The outing of Valerie Plame-Wilson by the Bush Administration, admitted by the CIA as being a covert agent, has led directly to Dick Cheney and possibly directly to the President.

Spying on Americans: President Bush has admitted to his program of warrentless spying against millions of Americans in violation of the Forth Amendment and the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA).

800 "Signing Statements": President Bush has signed more than 800 Signing Statements that circumvent over 1000 provisions of US laws. There is no constitutional clause that gives the President the right to ignore the law just "because he says so".

Missing e-mails: Two federal statutes require presidential communications, including White House e-mails, to be preserved for the nation's historical records. From 2001 to October 2003, the White House records system over-wrote all their e-mail files, and up to 2005, some e-mails still were not fully preserved. CREW (Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington) and the National Security Archives allege that millions of e-mails are missing from White House servers. (It is interesting that the timing of these lost e-mails is when most of the major illegal Bush activities were occurring.)

Mis-use of e-mail systems: Both the Republican National Committee e-mail system and the White House system were used within the White House to perform partisan political activities. As the White House is public property, it is against the law to do partisan political business while on public White House property.

Unlawful FBI Activities: The ACLU has released documents showing that the Bush Administration directed the FBI to expand the definition of "domestic terrorism" to include citizens engaged in nonviolent protest and civil disobedience. This is totally unconstitutional.

Firing of US Attorneys: This was a successful attempt by the President to use his US Attorney General and the US Justice Department for partisan political gains.

"Scooter" Libby: The President betrayed the public trust when he commuted the prison sentence of "Scooter" Libby.

Removal of Habeas Corpus: It is unconstitutional to remove the process of Habeas Corpus, which has been a freedom that first became British law in 1612.

http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/view/49839

[Farmer77]

Just goes to show that Americans continue to waste their time arguing with each other over politicians who are all in the same fraternity. Bush, Clinton, Bush, Obama they're all the same. It's like watching professional wrestling, they "hate" each other in front of the cameras for our benefit, when in reality they are just acting from the same script.

[Harte]

lol too easy ...

Geneva Convention: Even the current conservative US Supreme Court has "branded George W. Bush as a war criminal for violating the Geneva Convention regarding the torture of prisoners."

This I gotta see.

Gotta link to this case?

Sorry, but the Geneva Convention only applies to parties that are signatory to it. Also, it requires that combatants wear uniforms. Not doing so completely voids any protections one might otherwise have.

In fact, that was the entire reason for creating the conventions in the first place - to protect civilians by forcing combatants to distinguish themselves from same.

War Crimes: In the case of Hamdan vs Rumsfeld, it was proven that numerous war crimes have been committed by the Bush Administration in the war against Iraq, including the preemptive invasion itself.

Hmmm.

You prepared to charge the members of Congress with this crime? Like Hillary, John Kerry, Nancy Pelosui, Harry Reid?

Let me ask you this, was LBJ indicted over the war crimes committed in VC?

Remember My Lai? Happened on his watch - why wasn't he indicted?

This does not include the unaccounted-for millions of dollars lost in Iraq or the unlawful management by the US State Department regarding the US Contractors operating in Iraq, Kuwait and Afghanistan. Holding and torturing prisoners being held without due process at Guantanamo Bay and the Abu Ghraib prison scandal are also serious war crimes.

For which the perpetrators were prosecuted.

Outing of a CIA Agent: The outing of Valerie Plame-Wilson by the Bush Administration, admitted by the CIA as being a covert agent, has led directly to Dick Cheney and possibly directly to the President.

You mean Richard Armitage, don't you?

Why wasn't he prosecuted?

Yet you want to jail the pres and vp for this?

Spying on Americans: President Bush has admitted to his program of warrentless spying against millions of Americans in violation of the Forth Amendment and the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA).

Actually, no. Bush never "admitted to spying on Americans."

He admitted that FBI and others had bypassed the agreed-upon method for getting permission to surveil. What happened next? Congress, led by Dems, re-wrote the laws to match with what Bush's investigators had done.

Gonna need a bigger prison.

800 "Signing Statements": President Bush has signed more than 800 Signing Statements that circumvent over 1000 provisions of US laws. There is no constitutional clause that gives the President the right to ignore the law just "because he says so".

Actually, there is. It's called a "veto."

Please list a single signing statement that had any impact whatsoever on the enforcement of any law signed by Bush.

Please list the law that makes signing statements illegal and punishable by imprisonment.

Missing e-mails: Two federal statutes require presidential communications, including White House e-mails, to be preserved for the nation's historical records. From 2001 to October 2003, the White House records system over-wrote all their e-mail files, and up to 2005, some e-mails still were not fully preserved. CREW (Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington) and the National Security Archives allege that millions of e-mails are missing from White House servers. (It is interesting that the timing of these lost e-mails is when most of the major illegal Bush activities were occurring.)

You have yet to establish a single "illegal Bush activity" so your claim above is completely empty.

Mis-use of e-mail systems: Both the Republican National Committee e-mail system and the White House system were used within the White House to perform partisan political activities. As the White House is public property, it is against the law to do partisan political business while on public White House property.

ou mean like a quickie under the desk in the oval office?

Or, are you talking about granting "stay overs" in the Lincoln bedroom to illegal foreign political contributors?

Unlawful FBI Activities: The ACLU has released documents showing that the Bush Administration directed the FBI to expand the definition of "domestic terrorism" to include citizens engaged in nonviolent protest and civil disobedience. This is totally unconstitutional.

I suppose you must be talking about this?

I don't note anything illegal even being claimed here - just complaints from the same people that are suing to remove a cross from a memorial in the middle of nowhere because it's a Christian symbol.

The cross has been there for what, 80 years now? And has been replaced a couple times. The monument is to the war dead of WW1. Christ has no part in it. The memorial was erected to the memory of all the war dead - even the other side for God's sake!

Firing of US Attorneys: This was a successful attempt by the President to use his US Attorney General and the US Justice Department for partisan political gains.

Improper, not illegal.

Improper is what I've come to expect from any politician. Are you still so naive?

"Scooter" Libby: The President betrayed the public trust when he commuted the prison sentence of "Scooter" Libby.

Unfortunately, the power to commute a sentence lays entirely within the purvue of the Executive.

I'd rather see Libby's sentence commuted than pardoned, like the rush of pardons given out to political backers - some of them actual crooks, as in thieves of people's (not just tax) money - by Clinton and others before him.

None of that is illegal though.

Removal of Habeas Corpus: It is unconstitutional to remove the process of Habeas Corpus, which has been a freedom that first became British law in 1612.

Right. tell it to Lincoln.

Like I said, if you wanted to string them up on general principles, I'd agree. I feel the same way about Bush's precessor as well.

But I, at least, admit that there's no crime Clinton can actually be prosecuted for, nor is there one for which anyone can prosecute Bush or Cheney.

Well, none that has come to light in either case.

The fact that you hate them might be good enough for a lynching, but it won't carry the day in a court of law.

Harte

[The Silver Thong]

Well thats good to hear. As long as I wear a uniform I'm safe from human right violations.

Waterbording was a signed piece of paper stating that waterbordering was torture, to say different is ignoring the fact.

[Tiggs]

This I gotta see.

Gotta link to this case?

I believe Lt Ripley's probably referring to Hamdan v. Rumsfeld.

[Lt_Ripley]

I believe Lt Ripley's probably referring to Hamdan v. Rumsfeld.

actually it goes deeper than what we knew not long ago ... we may see discussion of the Hague again.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8148202.stm

Judge Confirms Detainee Tortured to Make False Confessions

Wednesday 14 October 2009

http://www.truthout.org/10140910

Edited October 15, 2009 by Lt_Ripley

[Harte]

I believe Lt Ripley's probably referring to Hamdan v. Rumsfeld.

Sure.

But, where's this:

Even the current conservative US Supreme Court has "branded George W. Bush as a war criminal for violating the Geneva Convention regarding the torture of prisoners."

Please note, these are Ripley's quotation marks.

Do quotation marks mean nothing? This is pure misinformation.

Worse, by far than Aroces, Ripley's arch-enemy! LOL

Harte

[preacherman76]

I don't think that's fair. Politicians are just products of the system they inhabit and they're bound by the same principles of social interaction as everybody else. You get mini-versions of the political sphere in every collection of people: that's why you have everything from "office politics" to inter- or intra-departmental politics in a university. And so on.

It isnt fair to hold those elected by we the people to a high standard??? I think peoples indifference is just as much to blame as the evil men we choose to lead us.

[Startraveler]

It isnt fair to hold those elected by we the people to a high standard???

It isn't fair to hold them to an impossible standard.